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Researchers design wearable tech that can sense glucose levels more accurately

Trasmatta

> Currently, diabetics must frequently prick their fingers or rely on invasive wearable patches with micro-needles to track their blood-sugar levels

Type 1 diabetic here - for what it's worth, CGMs aren't particularly invasive. At least in comparison to the many many years of finger pricking! But a smart watch solution would be cool. (I actually do get my CGM readings on my smart watch, which is really nice!)

I know Apple has also worked on this stuff in the past, but from what I remember the accuracy wasn't good enough to be safe for diabetics. I'd be really curious to see accuracy stats on this in comparison to Dexcom and Freestyle CGMs.

I would definitely be excited to use something like this, but for me, the biggest quality of life improvements for me will be continued improvements with closed loop CGM + insulin pump systems.

omnicognate

I don't use one or have diabetes but my understanding is that current CGMs measure interstitial glucose levels, which lag blood levels by up to 15 minutes. As a result, I believe those who require accurate spot measurements rather than just overall trends are still recommended to use finger stick tests.

In the article, the researcher claims "No other technology can provide this level of precision without direct contact with the bloodstream", so it sounds like they're claiming it's better than existing CGMs in a way that might be clinically relevant. Not sure if that's plausible or whether they are directly measuring blood glucose rather than interstitial.

Projectiboga

Type 1 here, a 15 min lag is fine. The constant sampling especially overnight and the multiday graphs are what I love about CGM. I've always been in decent but loose control 6.7 to 7.1 A1C (longer term measurement). After a year w CGM I got to 6.5. Now last checkup I'm at 5.9, this ties my record from my first month on Lantus insulin, never repeated in 19 years until now. Also getting numbers on phone and checking number every 15 min while driving are amazing. The stock software for Dexcom and Freestyle are both abysmal. Both refuse to allow silent mode, Dexcom has a hard 6 hours left on sensor uninteruptable alarm, woke me up at 4 am, coustomer service had nothing to say, so Goodbye. I went back to Freestyle their handheld reader is silencable and I use a third party app called Juggluco for my Android phone. Sorry I've survived 42 years on human insulin I don't want software taking over my life w unsilencable alerts. Anyone w less than 10 or 20 years OK, but my brain has extra backup pathways and I'm still functionable down to 50 (very rare), and I can recognize dimished coordination and the emotional shifts that accompany dips. Plus I have life experience to know my low time of day and to watch w exertion.

mjrpes

Not having to pay $50-100/mo for CGM patches would also be nice.

solumunus

Oh there will be a subscription, don’t worry about that.

juthen

It's a university research, not in-company. The tech is published.

rorytbyrne

But if they want to capture (or create, commercially) the market they’ll probably price it closer to $20 or under.

asyx

Those might be really great for T2 though. I don’t need to know the exact number just a ballpark number to know how I’m doing. Having always had a bad relationship with food, I fall off way too easily without a CGM so for me, those things would be perfect.

But also in times where we have the Libre 3 which is so tiny that you legit don’t even notice it, a CGM on your wrist is not worth the loss of accuracy for T1 I guess (assuming your insurance pays for it).

DavideNL

> but for me, the biggest quality of life improvements for me will be continued improvements with closed loop CGM + insulin pump systems

You might find this interesting: "A bi-hormonal fully closed loop system"

https://www.inredadiabetic.nl/en/home-english/

manmal

Having talked with T1 diabetics about such systems, the issue is that you don’t want to deplete glycogen stores just for basal management. Because your life might depend on their levels in case of a severe hypo.

DavideNL

What exactly do you mean by "you don’t want to deplete glycogen stores" ?

Scotrix

Agreed, cool and certainly some improvement but Freestyle is good enough already. Next step for me is more towards the new insulin research which activates only on glucose in the bloodstream (don’t recall how it was called but was here more recently also shared). This sounded more self controlling where it’s hopefully just making sure you have enough of it in your body and don’t need to take care of the rest.

Until then, Freestyle with Omnipod Dash in a close loop with iAPS was a game changer for me: Almost no peaks anymore, HBA1c on the level of a non diabetic person…

Nevertheless, good luck in productising it and I’ll be certainly trying it once it’s available…

smt88

> Freestyle is good enough already

In my experience, the quality control isn't very good (some patches will read much more accurately than others) and accuracy isn't that good when you get out of normal ranges.

I don't think the "invasive" nature of the Freestyle is a problem at all, but it would be nice to see some innovation on either the cost or the accuracy or both.

nahsra

OP lacks imagination for sure. This would reduce infections, prevent compression lows, be more discrete and potentially increase accuracy.

In no way would I describe CGM as solved, and this would go a long way towards filling many of the gaps, especially in younger / older / less compliant patient populations.

je42

For closed loop better cgms will help.

Main points are (fsl2 based):

- latency, currently 10min.

- accuracy, fine in normal range, but when you have a low blood sugar suddenly the latency spikes a lot.

- values when being under the shower too high.

- start up time of 60min could be lower.

-open up the hardware for any app to read

fallsoffbikes

I believe this is a reference to the tech you are talking about. I have a similar take as you: current cgm tech plus closed loop is pretty good. Self activating insulin is the first promising tech I’ve seen in the 40+ years of following the research.

https://youtu.be/lVTS_J7Xmxs?si=vemMfo3IbfMlYrUi

pneumatic1

Not diabetic myself but managing my little kids T1. If we could go from one poke every 10 days to 0 pokes, I am all in. Skeptical of the accuracy as well though especially for someone who is too young to fully participate and not fully hypoglycemic aware.

Projectiboga

Low sugar awareness is a learned and developed skill. As blood sugar drops, systems shut down. The issue is that the Frontal Lobe turns off at some point. Thankfully the energy conservation reduces that impact, but once severely low I can answer a myriad of questions wrongly. I reccomend cake-mate frosting tubes used to write on cakes as an emergency prep. That can be squeezed carefully into mouth between teeth and gums and begins a bootstrap process. Another suggestion make the low fun emotionally so please try and hide anger and fear. With the sensor and fairly tight control we haven't needed the cakemate in years now but it's good to have. A Glucagon shot is another thing to keep around too. I use olive oil on my food to have unsaturated fat as a backup nonglycemic energy source. Just be mindful virgin olive oil isn't to be used for cooking, only refined non-virgin is for cooking. Also fyi Walmart has always had affordable diabetic supplies. I use their meter and strips as an extra spare. Their Relion glucose pills are very good too, I keep them everywhere and carry them with me. To equate blood sugar to body mass divide weight in pounds by 4.4 (kilograms by 2), that gives a number for what 100 equals in grams of carbohydrates to better fine tune sliding scale insulin dosages and not overcorrecting lows. Best wishes as it is very stressful for loved ones.

IndeterminateR

CGMs are probably going to still be more accurate, so the watch may not be ideal for Type 1, but could be nice for people with pre-diabetes who are trying to optimize their health. I'm also curious how accurate they will be.

blackeyeblitzar

CGMs themselves are still inaccurate compared to needles. And even needle based meters have a lot of different levels of accuracy. A CGM, even once calibrated, may be off by as much as 10%.

caseyy

The value is in clinical application though. For closed loop systems, making a clinical decision for insulin dosing every 5 minutes is life-changing, even if the dosage is 10% off. I’d say even with compression lows, most systems are self-balancing enough to produce better results than a self-monitoring person could.

Besides, 10% off doesn’t often matter:

At 0-70 mg/dl the pump should suspend insulin either way. At 110-600 mg/dl the pump should ensure enough IoB by bolus, increase basal, and monitor either way. In that 70-110mg/dl the 10% MARD kind of matters for clinical decision-making, but not much. 90mg/dl is about as healthy as 81 and 99.

Patients are sometimes fussy by this inaccuracy but forget the tremendous benefit of trend indicators, let alone closed loop systems. Both of these have a much much larger positive impact to health than blood glucose being 10% above or below target impacts health negatively.

CGM with <=10% MARD, whether in wrist form factor or sensor form, is good enough for treatment. Of course, same as most readers, I have my doubts about this article.

hx8

My understanding is that CGMs shine at having a large volume of good data. You can see how your biometrics are trending over time much better than the <10/day readings someone with manual testing will receive.

scottyeager

For me the worst part of current CGMs isn't the needle or the very thin piece of plastic it leaves behind with the probe. Rather, it's the effect on the skin under the patch and the residual adhesive. So from that perspective a watch would be cool.

Indeed though, advancements in (affordable) closed loop tech matter more than where the CGM is worn.

pneumatic1

Can you say more about the plastic left behind? Polyurethane coating on the cannula?

mannyv

Been using a dexcom g7 for a few weeks as a test. Pulling the sensor off can be painful, and leaves behind adhesive residue when I do it. And there's also a bit of inflammation in the area since it sticks a small probe into you, which sits there for 10 days.

tlubinski

We - at DiaMonTech - are working on non-invasive glucose monitoring for over a decade now. It's a hard and complex problem and as long as clinical data is missing, I'm very sceptical.

We just reached (in a clinical trial) a comparable accuracy as early-stage invasive devices that got FDA approved with a shoe-box-sized device and we still have some work to do. The pre-print of our publication is here: https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-5289491/v1

I'm excited to see new developments but in this case, I'm not sure this will reach the market anytime soon.

WesolyKubeczek

I was actually thinking about your product when venting my frustrations elsewhere in the thread. Your site was mentioning elsewhere that you had a working shoebox-sized device which, "due to its size", was "only targeted at hospitals".

Man, you have no idea. I'd gladly buy a shoebox-sized thing. No finger pricking and no test strips to buy is the king. It could be 4U rackmount thing for all I care, as long as it was noninvasive and accurate.

tlubinski

It's not approved yet anyway. But if you are ever in Berlin, let me know and I'll give you a tour.

bob_theslob646

Why do you think that this will not reach the market anytime soon?

tlubinski

Because the engineers of the University of Waterloo haven't shown any clinical data yet.

rkagerer

Sounds exciting, but the fact their prototype is in a wristwatch form factor makes me wonder if it's aiming to be more of a media showpiece to hype investment valuation from those industry partners. Forward looking statements like "maybe we'll make it monitor blood pressure too" don't help.

Even at the size of a brick, or without conveniently hiding the power supply off-camera, forgoing needles would still be a huge boon to diabetics. Why not get the concept working and demo some hard stats, then miniaturize?

hn_throwaway_99

That's because it's bullshit.

To clarify, the actual science they did is interesting (to me at least, as someone not in the field). The paper is linked here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-024-00194-4

What is bullshit is the completely unwarranted conclusions in the title or in the quotes in the article. This is classic "science by press release".

If you notice in the paper, they didn't do any testing, at all, with actual humans (or animals) and their blood sugar levels. The paper is mainly about the design of this "metasurface" which they claim allows higher resolution and sensitivity of a millimeter-wave radar system. The leap from what they've done to "no more needles for diabetics" is about 100x of "draw the rest of the owl".

Again, to emphasize, I'm not denigrating the science they've done. I'm denigrating the hyping of it.

raphman

Thanks for calling this out. That was also my impression after having skimmed their paper: the only link to glucose monitoring is that the authors mention a few papers on the topic to motivate their research. And looking at the papers they cite, I see little evidence that this approach could work in practice in the near future. Most of the citations [2, 15, 16] are to their own work, which did not look at glucose monitoring in the human body.

This is not my field of expertise, and maybe I am misunderstanding the papers. But it seems that there is little evidence that non-invasive glucose monitoring via measuring dielectric properties works reliably in practice. No in-the-wild studies, no investigation of potentially confounding factors.

Take for example citation 22 from the paper. A study where the authors propose a new antenna design. They seem to measure how the pancreas changes size during insulin production by monitoring its dielectric properties. IIUC, they look for a dip in the frequency spectrum caused by absorption of a certain frequency band.

But their measurements show an even larger effect when measuring on the thumb instead of the pancreas. This effect is not explained at all. (My guess: after having patients fast for 8-10 hours, giving them glucose will have an effect on the whole metabolism, resulting in higher blood flow, and that's what they measured).

Also, while they operate the antenna in the GHz range, they use a cheap USB soundcard (sampling rate 44.1 kHz) for capturing the signal. I did not understand this at all. They also repeatedly use the term "dielectric radiation". Seems to be a rather uncommon term?

The "machine learning algorithms" mentioned in the title seem to be a simple linear regression? They claim an accuracy of ~90% and show some sample results. The complete study data is only available upon request, however.

[22] S.J. Jebasingh Kirubakaran, M. Anto Bennet, N.R. Shanker, Non-Invasive antenna sensor based continuous glucose monitoring using pancreas dielectric radiation signal energy levels and machine learning algorithms, Biomedical Signal Processing and Control, Volume 85, 2023, 105072, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.bspc.2023.105072

bobmcnamara

I assume there's an RF mixer somewhere in there.

Edit: read the paper, now more confused

sheepscreek

> they didn't do any testing, at all, with actual humans (or animals)

They did mention in the article that clinical trials are on-going.

hn_throwaway_99

Correct, but I'm extremely skeptical, and that sentence had my bullshit detector alarms screaming even louder:

> “We have a minimum viable product that’s already being used in clinical trials, and while there’s more work to be done, we’re much closer to a full marketable device,” Shaker said.

Absolutely no information about what this "clinical trial" entails, or what phase it was. Most importantly, to get an initial assessment of the accuracy of the device, no clinical trials are necessary - you simply need to do a test that compares the blood sugar reading from the device against the current gold standard, most likely first in some animal model.

If their device was really as far along as the title and quotes are implying, they would be showered with so much money it would make the Theranos peak valuation look small. The only evidence they've provided (which, again, I'm not saying is insignificant) is that the "metasurface" they have developed enhances the resolution and sensitivity of a radar system against a beaker of water.

m463

I thought apple was trying to get glucose monitoring approved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noninvasive_glucose_monitor#Ne...

(different technique)

theendisney4

If it fits in a watch a lot of nondiabetics will also buy it. It can be much cheaper that way.

adaml_623

I think this is a really important point. Making it a feature in millions of watches will drive the cost of implementation down

lukan

Why would I as a nondiabetic buy it? Out of general curiosity for my blood sugar levels?

crazygringo

Not general curiosity -- but for healthier eating.

There's a theory that says you basically won't ever gain weight if you prevent your blood sugar from going above a certain level. So it's an objective way of knowing how much to eat and when.

Also, to warn when blood sugar is too low. Some people (myself included) often get so into work (or whatever) that we forget to eat, with adverse consequences. An alert is very helpful.

doxick

My garmin watch measures blood oxygen, heart-rare, breathing patterns, sleep patterns, stress-levels, etc

Usefull? It is if you use it. I do triathlons and knowing exactly where my blood-sugar level is at would allow me to focus better on the type of nutrition and the impact of it while working out. It would also tell me if i was a bit down before a race, so i can take some food.

Basically: this is a game-changer for amateur athletes, which would create a tremendous market for it. People i know already use the patches to measure as well, or lactate measurements, ketone measurements, etc. and that's just at the casual amateur level.

Another application that springs to mind is knowing when to eat instead of just having lunch and sugar-crashing 2 hours later in the office.

mzhaase

Would be a real game changer for endurance sports. There is "bonking" - depletion of muscle glycogen. When that happens your race is over. Sometimes it happens even to high level athletes what feels like out of the blue. If you knew ahead of time your blood sugar is getting low you could prevent it.

promiseofbeans

Because it's built-in as an extra feature to a watch that you were already gonna buy. Garmin watches can measure blood oxygen, but not many people use the feature because it drains the battery quickly. Samsung watches can do a single lead EKGs. Does that sell you the watch? Probably not. Is it yet another thing a company can add to the spec sheet and use to justify a price increase? Yes.

e40

Because many of us have high blood sugar but are not diabetic and knowing the impact of diet on blood sugar would be a boon to controlling the issue.

DoctorOetker

I believe GP assumes the reader of their comment to understand that one of the types of diabetes is acquired during ones lifetime, by over-consumption of certain types of nutrition.

Preventing non-hereditary diabetes could be much cheaper from a societal perspective.

stabbles

Endurance athletes already monitor this to figure out how to fuel best.

hombre_fatal

To fuel their “low carb” low carb eating disorder.

nradov

Type-2 diabetes is commonly comorbid with hypertension (similar root causes) so combining both sensors in a single wrist device would be useful for many patients. There are existing wrist blood pressure monitors such as Aktiia. Not as accurate as an arm cuff, but good enough for routine monitoring.

https://aktiia.com/

froil

Where can i buy?

null

[deleted]

bkraz

For anyone interested in noninvasive glucose sensing, I'd highly recommend https://www.nivglucose.com/The%20Pursuit%20of%20Noninvasive%...

RF-based approaches have the problem that they are not specific to glucose. A molecule of glucose absorbs infrared light at specific wavelengths due to its size and types of bonds. It does not have specific absorption of radio frequencies. In this paper, researchers measured glucose in pure water at concentrations 100X physiological levels. I'd like to see this work with whole blood or a tissue phantom, or measure glucose independently from any other solute.

azinman2

> “We have a minimum viable product that’s already being used in clinical trials, and while there’s more work to be done, we’re much closer to a full marketable device,” Shaker said.

I see this a lot. People seem to ignore the “viable” part of MVP. If there’s more work to be done to make it a full marketable device, it isn’t viable in its current stage.

I wish them luck.

exceptione

What I miss in the paper is any accuracy figure for glucose sensing. If this is an alternative to needles, how would the measurements compare? That is the first question one should ask.

I fear we can assume that, although the approach might be novel, it can't replace needles for accurate measurement. But maybe I am overlooking the performance comparison.

DavideNL

Yea, it might perhaps be described more detailed in the mentioned paper (i haven't checked it yet.):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-024-00194-4

EDIT: No, i don't think it's mentioned...

bobmcnamara

They claim 90-some percent

justinl33

The comparison to weather satellites is misleading and oversells this technology. Weather radar works by detecting water droplets at known atmospheric heights - it's a fundamentally different problem than trying to measure glucose concentrations in blood through layers of tissue. The real breakthrough here isn't the radar tech (which has existed for years), it's the machine learning pipeline that can extract meaningful glucose data from extremely noisy radar returns.

DoctorOetker

I don't believe the claim is radio echolocation, but radio spectroscopy.

I didn't read the paper yet, but I predict from the comments in this HN thread, that the proposed system is essentially a dielectric spectroscopy setup optimized for glucose detection (or any number of proxy byproducts/complexes/etc..)

Check this wikipedia page for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_spectroscopy

Look at the picture on the right, from typically lower to higher frequencies there is the motion response of ions, the reorientation response of molecules with a dipole moment, the excitation of vibrational modes in a molecule and the electronic excitation of electrons switching orbitals...

EDIT: since I have not read the article, I do not vouch for its authenticity (above my paygrade)

Beijinger

Sorry to break the party. A buddy of mine is deeply skeptical, and he is one of the few with a decent amount of peer-reviewed publications about non-invasive blood glucose measurement. The idea to use "Radar near-field sensing" is everything but new and nothing has ever come out of it.

"Breakthroughs" in this field are a dime a dozen: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/liom-cracks-holy-grail-non-22...

My buddy is one of the few guys that has a sound (no pun intended) technology that might work. But future will tell. I won't give a link. Yes, the company secured funding.

zamadatix

This is "my uncle who works at Nintendo said Sony sucks" level information to anyone but you.

I do agree on one part regardless of any of that though... I'm at the point of waiting for the one who actually sells me said device instead of the one that says they'll soon be able to.

Beijinger

At this state, they are likely able to do this. Not small enough for your watch but a working stationary device that can RELIABLY monitor your blood sugar. And with blood sugar I don't mean the skin prick test. If people claim they compared to the skin prick test and "it works" they have no idea what they are talking about. You have to compare venereal blood glucose with measured blood glucose and use the Clarke error grid to show what you are doing.

And yes, skin color or skin temperature (fever!) does not matter for his measurement. I once submitted an SBIR grant for this project, but have no involvement anymore with this project. The NIH found this approach "highly innovative" but thought it can not be realized bc the technology is "prohibitive expensive". I assume they did not really read the proposal. I explicitly wrote that, while such a device costs 50k on the market, a slimmed down version produced in quantities would cost a few hundred dollars. They just had a short look at the approach, googled the hardware behind it, and rejected it. An idiot and google is a very dangerous combination!

zamadatix

Got a purchase link?

gary_0

The explanation of how it works sounds like hand-wavy technobabble from a bad sci-fi thriller. Micro-radar metasurfaces? Amazing that it's actually a real thing.

pythonguython

It sounds more complicated than it is. A metasurface is almost always just a fancy patch antenna. If you reduce some parameters down, you can really just view it as a resonant circuit. You could design a meta surface in a few minutes in any pcb design software and get it fabricated on low tech PCB fabrication equipment. In this case, they used an array of a specific type of patch antennas (that’s a meta surface) called the complementary split ring resonator. In a sense, all split ring resonators are “micro radar” surfaces, because a split ring resonator is designed to be electrically small compared to the wavelength. The researchers here found that the change in glucose in the bloodstream changes the dielectric properties of the bloodstream, and the resonant characteristics of the complementary split ring resonator change depending on the surrounding dielectric (a dielectric just describes the electrical properties of a material - for instance, a higher electric dielectric constant will slow down the phase velocity of an EM wave, which leads to various measurable effects in an RF system). Looks like great engineering work here, but I’ve always thought the term “metasurface” was foo foo jargon since I first began studying antennas.

sowbug

Slightly OT, but just last night I finished a 15-day Dexcom Stelo CGM session. If you can afford the $99, I highly recommend it. There is a world of difference between an intellectual understanding of blood glucose and actually witnessing your body maintaining exquisite control over a system dependent on food, exercise, stress, time of day, and the idiosyncrasies of your individual insulin response.

ra7

I’ve been looking to try an CGM to see how all those factors affect my blood sugar. Is Dexcom Stelo the best available OTC? How do you like the analytics in the app?

sowbug

I didn't look at the competition. I knew the Dexcom brand because my friends have had good experiences with the G series, so the Stelo was an easy impulse purchase. I'm neither diabetic nor prediabetic, so I'm not a good representative of those audiences.

For someone glucose-curious like me, the Stelo is just right. The app provides a slightly laggy real-time graph of measurements (collected every 5 minutes and reported every 15 minutes). It uses some heuristics to identify rising/falling events, and it'll notify you for the steeper cases (but I'm not sure about hypoglycemic event notifications, as I had a couple of those while sleeping and found out only when I woke up). On Android, it uses the Health Connect hub to sync some health data with other apps. It provides a rudimentary event-log function to add meal, exercise, and FYI notations. You'll also get a daily time-in-range wrap-up.

The more interesting analytics are in clarity.dexcom.com, which is a website that visualizes data that the app is constantly pushing, with a couple-hour lag. There you will find more graphs, tables that group measurements by day and hour, and various expected calculations (average, standard deviation, CV, calculated GMI). And you'll also find the all-important export to CSV button, which gives you all the sensor data. Using that I was able to import everything to Google Sheets, where I did a linear regression with finger-prick measurements to ascertain the sensor's (mild) deviation.

The Stelo feature set is clearly designed to provide all the data eventually, but not quickly enough to be useful for diabetics who need real-time info for glucose management. That's how they'll continue segmenting the Stelo and G7 audiences. I have no problem with that; if OTC GCM cost continues to drop, and they become as prevalent as annual lipid/metabolic labs, I could see the incidence of lifestyle-attributable T2D dropping, which would obviously have massive benefits to society.

ra7

Thank you! You just convinced me to get one.

vlovich123

> and microcontrollers, which process the radar signals using artificial intelligence algorithms

So glad we've rebranded primitive ML and basic control mechanisms as AI.

raincole

Except AI has always meant quite primitive things.

AI predates C. Actually AI predates lisp:

> IPL was used to implement several early artificial intelligence programs, also by the same authors: the Logic Theorist (1956), the General Problem Solver (1957), and their computer chess program NSS (1958).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Processing_Langu...

winter_blue

Or maybe just a signal processor is being rebranded as AI.

Soon a Fast Fourier Transform will be rebranded as AI as well.

bregma

I had the same complaint over 20 years ago when the phrase "game AI" came into widespread use to describe a computer opponent. Now that we have an entire generation raised on the concept that anything a computer does is "AI" is it surprising everything a computer does is termed "AI"?

cdmckay

Wasn’t ML always considered AI?

consp

I've never seen ML been called AI until the past few years. And this is most likely not even ML but just fancy signal processing.

saidinesh5

Even orange pi watch promised something like this... Do we have any updates on it?

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Orange-Pi-Watch-D-Pro-New-smar...

nahsra

It won’t fly under the radar when this technology actually works. The FDA actually has warned, IIRC, that there’s a bunch of charlatans selling stuff that doesn’t work.