Israeli-founded app preloaded on Samsung phones is attracting controversy
150 comments
·November 17, 2025shevy-java
SpyApps everywhere.
Hopefully one day we not only have open software, open hardware but also reproducibly guaranteed secure systems. Now I don't have any idea how this could be verified (and no, Microsoft's "Trusted Computing" is not what I have in mind), but I hope we'll see to this eventually.
johnebgd
If you don’t trust a centralized authority you need decentralized governance…
duxup
I recently bought a cheap android device because I needed to test something on Android. The setup was about 3 hours of the device starting up, asking me questions, installing apps I explicitly told it not to, and then all sorts of other apps and OS updates trying to do their thing seemingly at once. I wasn't even transferring data, just a brand new phone, new google account.
What a horrible experience you get with some providers and phones.
It's to the point that I think there should be some sort of regulation that involves you getting a baseline experience on the OS rather than a bunch of malware out of the box.
ravenstine
That would make Samsung's business model not viable. :D
jeroenhd
Cheap devices get subsidized by shitty adware. The cheaper the device, the more likely that it's full of terrible adware.
Consumers often have a choice, at least between "filled to the brim with crap" and "a modicum of crap", by choosing between buying their phone from a store or from a carrier. Carriers have better deals but shovel their phones full of the worst apps you can imagine. Still, people will buy the crap-filled experience that makes you want to tear your hair out because they like the idea of scoring a better deal.
Nothing like unadulterated greed combined with short-sighed consumer behaviour at scale to drive a market segment into an awful race to the bottom.
oceansky
The premium devices still have the bloatware.
summermusic
This is why custom ROM support is the first question I ask when buying a new Android phone
jajuuka
Sounds like the average carrier locked Samsung device experience in the US. Oh you didn't want Clash of Clans installed? We'll reinstall that for you next OS update. Running updates through carriers was a serious mistake.
jacquesm
Running remote updates in general was a serious mistake. Other manufacturers are no better and give you all kinds of crap for their income streams at the expense of your convenience whilst claiming the opposite.
The last time I saw an update that just fixed security bugs and improved performance was... never.
avn2109
I took this seriously and thought back to the most recent actually-useful-bugfixes-and-security-improvements release that I can remember. OSX Snow Leopard perhaps?
jay_kyburz
Name and shame please. I'm shopping for a cheap first phone for my 13 year old.
I'm looking at HMD or Motorola.
atonse
My guess is, those auto installs is exactly how they keep the costs down, by subsidizing the cost with getting paid by companies to auto-install garbage.
It's the same with Smart TVs, they've gotten so cheap because of all the other slimy stuff the manufacturers do, like sell your watch data, or pre-install apps.
ozgrakkurt
This is not a valid cause. They spend insane amounts of money on advertising and also make insane amounts of revenue. Don’t think “them keeping the cost down” is relevant in this context.
esafak
The problem is that you do not get the option to pay off the subsidy to get a clean install.
atonse
I suppose the "paying off the subsidy" is to buy a more expensive phone. Or getting a Google Pixel. I've heard those are as much stock android as possible.
cultofmetatron
pretty much why I switched to iphone. I used pixels before for the same reason but good luck getting your pixel warranty honored outside the united states
null
elsjaako
I've heard this theory before, but is an individual data point really worth enough to make this argument?
takipsizad
its not just your data point its everyones data point
montjoy
You need to think about the aggregate data. Whole trends can be seen in almost real-time.
Here’s a made up example, and it’s probably not even the best one. - Show Teckno-Detectives shows a “Cameo” of Grapple’s newest mixed-reality glasses. The data shows that 3.9 million additional people watched the episode. Investment firms who pay for the data notice and buy extra Grapple shares to cash in on the expected sales bump.
rubyn00bie
This is true, it’s not an individual datapoint. When smartphones, like the iPhone, originally debuted carriers had a conniption fit because they couldn’t preload a ton of garbage apps to help subsidize the cost. Apple has been able to avoid this, but for your average smartphone this is absolutely how both the manufacturer and carrier are able to sell them so cheaply.
Every experience may not be as bad as the one the OP had, but it’s surely well within reality. Both carriers and handset manufacturers are glad to sell anything and everything about someone to make a quick buck. They’ve literally been doing it for 25+ years.
ghurtado
> they've gotten so cheap because of all the other slimy stuff
Not really, they've gotten so cheap because the individual components they are made of have become much cheaper due to economies of scale.
The same thing happened with computer monitors, and those don't ship with the bloatware.
brookst
Compare monitors to TVs of similar spec, in price and bloatware.
tyfon
I suspect the apparent reduction in price on these devices is a lot less than what they earn from the slimy stuff.
But the premium devices (especially TVs) are starting to do this too now via software updates. I had to turn off a bunch of crap in the settings on my LG CX TVs some time ago. Now they are just off the internet and can only connect to my NAS.
kakacik
Nah its the corporate greed and disregard for avoiding amoral behavior at the first place, since clearly its punished much less than rewards are (just look at all the slaps on the wrist of FAANGs and similar), then followed by race to the bottom with the price.
Economies of scale do bring costs of everything much further than stealing user's data can, but good luck explaining some long term vision to C-suites who only care about short term bonuses.
exabrial
I'm really uncomfortable with anti-semitism. I wish this didn't appear on HN.
It's one thing to want to avoid government-spyware. It's another thing to be racist.
45955424
Please be more specific about what you're seeing and where, as it's not apparent from this comment what you're referencing.
Topgamer7
Which part of this was racist? Did you even bother to even skim the article?
logicchains
HN must not become a platform for hate. Israel has really strong national security reasons for putting spyware on our phones.
decremental
[dead]
hersko
So a Unity owned bloatware company being used by Samsung is now somehow controversial because it was founded in Israel? Am i reading this right?
Centigonal
From Stuxnet to Pegasus to the 2024 pager attack, Israel has a history of leveraging its tech sector to advance its national security aims through clandestine means (this is not unusual: so does the US, and so does China). If you're a country with not-so-friendly relations with Israel, the company being founded in Israel is absolutely pertinent.
Un1corn
Which _Israeli_ companies were used for Stuxnet or the 2024 pager attack? NSO is not the same as the company from the article since it's explicitly a cyber company.
MomsAVoxell
Getting upset “because Israel” is not the controversy you think it is. Serious war crimes were committed in the Israeli pager attack.
Israel used its tech sector to commit those war crimes.
It’s only a controversial story, anyway, to those who think that the pager attack was ‘a perfectly acceptable way to wage war’, and the counter to that argument is: are you sure you would be willing to have this same technique, or similar uses of at-scale consumer devices being subverted by a nation state, applied to you?
For those of us who see the war crime nature of that pager attack, Israeli companies can no longer be trusted with supply-side delivery of mobile devices. Or, indeed, with components to be used in such devices, hardware or software.
This has significant relevance to us here on HN, who have to deal with the potential subversion of devices some of us deploy, at massive scale.
Or would you be okay if some state that was hostile to your own decided to just pack malfeasant activities into devices that almost everyone in your neighborhood/company are using?
The willingness to just roll over and let rogue states commit heinous acts is one thing; staying alert of potential threat vectors, at massive scale, is another.. and after all, isn’t this “hacker” news?
vladgur
A targeted attack on members of Hezbollah, which was designated as a terrorist organization by 27 countries, including one where I live as they were shelling Israel with rockets that killed amongst others 12 druze kids in 2024.
Yeah, totally a war crime against innocent civilians.
potatototoo99
It wasn't a targeted attack since they had no way of knowing where the pagers would end up in the second-hand market, as they were only activated years later.
wahnfrieden
It harmed and killed civilians. 28% of the victims killed were civilian. An additional 4,000 civilians were injured - disfigured, permanently disabled, etc.
The method was a war crime. You appear to be defending war crimes as justifiable.
MomsAVoxell
Tell me you don't care about the Geneva convention without telling me you've probably never read the Geneva convention.
Extra-judicial murder through out of control deployment of weapons via subterfuge is terrorism, also. The idea that it was a 'targeted attack' is risible. Civilians died in those indiscriminate attacks - which were terrorist in nature and deed.
Except yes, indeed, we label it a war crime, in civilised society - and we seek justice for the war criminals in terms of prison sentences. Not dismemberment and maiming.
You can justify atrocities all you want. Getting called out for war crimes is the price to be paid for such 'cleverness', however.
Or else, you know, everyone will start doing it, not just those who have deemed themselves uniquely worthy of the act .. and we can't have that now, can we...
CommanderData
I mean the world takes the view Israel is occupying and slowly invading more regions of Palestine.
I didn't make it up, the Balfour declaration makes it pretty clear, so if you're upset natives are attacking you what's your point exactly.
Anyway, point is Israel has almost always lied throughout it's genocide against Palestinians. The IOF has lied or distorted the truth in almost every statement, one which always comes to mind is the attack on the Christian hospital.
The Israeli government are liars, they have a whole online army dedicated to misinformation and the 5 D's. For them lying is just another effective weapon of war which must be utilised.
thenaturalist
You won’t be able to argue with facts against Israel haters, unfortunately. :/
Not on HN, not other places.
They all know best while living a world away from the region.
xenospn
"It's a war crime because of a fictional scenario I made up in my head".
paxys
RTFA
> The presence of an Israeli-origin technology component on Samsung phones in WANA countries poses additional problems. Several nations in this region legally bar Israeli companies from operating, and in light of the ongoing Israel–Palestine conflict, the preload of an app tied to such a company becomes even more contentious.
So yes, the presence of Israeli software is a problem in many countries, and may even be illegal.
xenospn
Apple's A/M-series chips are designed in Israel. My guess is no one is banning iPhones.
dogma1138
I’ll wager there is a bit more Israeli tech in those phones than some adware.
_DeadFred_
Or a heck of a lot of non-phone tech as well.
fn-mote
To HN readers, the controversy is likely this:
> the program was found to be quietly invasive as it allows the installer to install programs on the user’s device without permission. It circumvents the user validation process and successfully bypasses multiple security checks, including antivirus programs
I agree that the headline “controversy” is manufactured.
null
computerex
Uhhhh, not sure about you, but I wouldn't want anything Israeli within 10m of my phone.
tguvot
you probably need to throw away your phone. or something. because never mind of it apple/qualcomm/android/etc - one of R&D centers that all companies have in Israel developed part of it.
wahnfrieden
The controversy is Israeli remote control over all these phones. Not Israeli R&D contributing to a component.
Edit: I know what they wrote
thenaturalist
ROFL.
Best step up to your words and throw away your phone then.
All major tech companies and chip manufacturers have R&D and design centers in Israel.
alephnerd
That's not the controversy based on the article - it's arguing that because the app is Israeli in origin, it may run afoul of local BDS laws thus another reason for AppCloud to be removed from local device, which is notable because the AppCloud app only appears to be installed on African, Asian, and MENA Samsung phones, where the bulk of countries with BDS laws exist.
The article doesn't appear to take a side one way or the other in the conflict, it's just listing a potential compliance issue.
null_deref
BDS is a western concept, legal laws banning business with Israel in the Middle East precede it.
null
myth_drannon
There is no such thing as BDS laws, only anti-BDS laws. Some muslim countries boycott Israeli-made products, But since Israel is a tech powerhouse only behind the US, almost every tech is Israeli-made at least partially, so again, trying to enforce any boycott is stupid.
churchill
[dead]
zkmon
Why do android phone companies load up the bloatware on their phones? Why can't they provide a plain vanilla version of android and let users to choose the stuff?
mpol
The same reason this happens/happened on Windows laptops. The hardware provider gets money to pre-install this software. They can then offer the phone at a lower price with a higher margin.
null
naIak
Even worse is that Samsung phones, at least in my region, come with a "Samsung Global Goals" app installed by default; an app that serves to push a certain political agenda that many find unpalatable. Imagine if your new Xiaomi phone came with an app telling you how good the CCP is.
rs186
AppCloud is not only in India. It is on some OEM version of the phone in the US as well.
How did I know? My phone had random notifications promoting apps that I had never heard of, and I couldn't find a way to disable them. Eventually I found and removed it via adb.
These scumbags.
null
hyghjiyhu
Edited. This seems to be according worldwide despite the article saying it's in West Asia and Africa.
pbiggar
[flagged]
ashdksnndck
Redis and Elasticsearch were both built by Israelis, and there is also Israeli code in important projects like the Linux kernel. And of course, also Israeli contributions in closed-source tech like CUDA. Avoiding all of that is a pretty tall order. But if you want to impair your systems by purifying them based on national origin of the contributors, have at it.
pbiggar
In fact Elasticsearch was specifically mentioned as a partner of the "Gaza Humanitarian Foundation", a fake aid org who caused many Palestinians to be killed under their watch. (Elasticsearch denied involvement when I contacted them)
But to be more specific I would narrow it down to avoiding using any tech which Israel could use for surveillance, narrative control, or harm.
ashdksnndck
Opposing a specific organization for engaging in specific acts is a lot less objectionable than discriminating based on national origin.
sudohalt
To the best of your ability. If you can avoid Israeli tech then do so, if you can't at least you try. Also opensource technology is different because you can verify and audit the tech
yonisto
One might wonder what computer you are using, I think ZX Spectrum is safe.
AlexandrB
Are you suggesting this software will somehow be able to make a phone explode? The pagers weren't just normal pagers with malware, I'm pretty sure they were loaded with actual explosives.
pbiggar
I added more context above to clarify the point I was making (which I thought would be self-evident, but I guess it was a bit more obscure than I thought)
jameshilliard
> Most Israeli tech companies are founded by people in Unit 8200, which is the sorta Israel NSA. They orchestrated the pager attack on Lebanon [2] which was a supply chain attack that was 10 years in the making, and was internationally decried as a War Crime.
The spicy pagers were mostly Mossad AFAIU, an extremely precise supply chain attack(where the devices were exclusively sold to terrorists) and where essentially all casualties were terrorists(or in rare cases family members of terrorists) is unlikely to be a war crime despite what various UN officials(who have a serious credibility problem in general) say.
> The take away I would have for people is to not trust any Israeli tech, anywhere in their tech stack. Don't use anything that sends user data via Israel or to Israeli companies, don't use anything with Israeli tech in it. If you're building anything that has user data, don't use any Israeli subprocessors. Anything that Unit 8200 has touched should be avoided.
That really worked out great for the terrorists who bought the spicy Mossad pagers didn't it? They tried to avoid modern devices like smartphones(which are relatively easy to hack by nation state attackers regardless of where the tech inside came from) and ended up with an even bigger problem.
zapataband2
Yes, software was involved in the pager attacks, and software can be used to overheat and cause malfunction(which in the case of lithium ion can cause explosions, hazardous gases, and fire). Another example of a software-based attack that damages hardware is Stuxnet(there were no explosives either as part of this attack).
zapataband2
Downvoting facts? You might not be thinking about this topic rationally.
zahlman
GP self-describes as "Cofounder of Tech for Palestine", so making that sort of mental association is not unexpected.
zapataband2
It's a pretty well established phenomenon and he cites israeli leaders. no need for ad-hominem attacks. What's your argument for allowing spyware?
mytailorisrich
FUD and rationalising. We do understand the real reason they don't like it.
By the way, in the Arab world (my reading of "some West Asian and North African markets". Nice euphemism, btw) there isn't the same stigma as in the West so they usually don't feel the need to be cautious and say exactly what they mean, i.e. "the Jews".
oldandboring
100%.
ngcazz
Israel is genociding Palestinians with western material support. Not only is being against that not antisemitic, it's gruesome to imply that good jews and gentiles simp for said genocide, and it's racist to paint North Africa with an antisemitic label when in fact these countries host jewish communities of their own. (Edit: religion is irrelevant to the immorality of genocide support)
tguvot
99.9% of jews from north africa had to leave their homes after 1948 or after 1967. so saying that those countries "host jewish comminutes of their own" is far fetched
morocco went from 250000 to 2000
algeria went from 130000 to 200
tunisia went from 105000 to 1000
libya went from 40000 to 0
oldandboring
[flagged]
What’s striking is how often these ‘small’ surveillance tech stories trace back to the same state-aligned ecosystem. When Israel does it, it’s treated as a complex security issue. When another ‘bad’ country does the same thing, we immediately call it espionage. And almost on cue, the discussion drifts anywhere except the uncomfortable fact that it’s the same ecosystem from the same country showing up again.