M5 MacBook Pro
206 comments
·October 15, 20250xfaded
coldtea
>I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up.
Sounds more like a you problem, probably due to unfamiliarity. There are endless options for local dev on a Mac, and a huge share of devs using one.
Syntaf
Agreed, as a software engineer of ~8 years now Mac is actually my _preferred_ environment -- I find it an extremely productive OS for development whether I'm working on full stack or Unity game dev in my free time.
deaddodo
I don't agree with OP's sentiment that macOS is a bad dev environment, but surely I prefer Linux+KDE as an overall dev environment. I find that all the tools I need are there but that I'm fighting the UI/UX enough to make it a hassle relative to KDE.
SomeUserName432
I've been on a mac for ~4 years now.
It was a bit of a struggle to get used to it, coming from windows.
The only thing I really miss now is alt-tab working as expected. (It's a massive pain to move between two windows of the same program)
debunn
As a hybrid macOS / Windows user (with 20+ years of Windows keyboard muscle memory), I found Karabiner Elements a godsend. You can import complex key modifications from community built scripts which will automatically remap things like Cmd+Tab to switch windows, as well as a number of other Windows hotkeys to MacOS equivalents (link below):
https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/
https://ke-complex-modifications.pqrs.org/?q=windows#windows...
WXLCKNO
You know you can use CMD+backtick (CMD+`) to cycle between windows of the same app? Add shift to go in reverse.
Or otherwise you can enable the app exposé feature to swipe down with three fingers and it will show you only windows of the same app.
91bananas
Play with your keyboard, alt, ctrl, cmd + tab or ~ or combos of those will do wild things for ya
whycome
Apparently i'm the only one who didn't know about cmd+`
sator-arepo
You know about Cmd+Backtick, do you?
wiseowise
CMD + ~.
thewebguyd
> The window manager. I'm not a fan of all the animations and needing to gester between screens (and yes, I've been down the hotkeys rabbit hole). To install a 3rd party window manager, you need to disable some security setting because appearantly they work by injecting into the display manager and calling private APIs.
Specifically for this, there's Aerospace (https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace) which does not require disabling SIP, intentionally by the dev.
For using the vanilla macOS workspaces though, if you avoid using full screen apps (since those go to their on ephemeral workspace that you can't keybind for some stupid reason), if you create a fixed amount of workspaces you can bind keyboard shortcuts to switch to them. I have 5 set up, and use Ctrl+1/2/3/4/5 to switch between isntead of using gestures.
Apart from that, I use Raycast to set keybindings for opening specific applications. You can also bind apple shortcuts that you make.
Still not my favorite OS over Linux, but I've managed to make it work because I love the hardware, and outside of $dayjob I do professional photography and the adobe suite runs better here than even my insanely overspeced gaming machine on Windows.
radley
Is there a HN bingo card? Because we always get a top comment for Linux user who tries Mac and decides they prefer Linux.
pm2222
I hear you. Apple hw and Linux combination would be have been great for me.
1-more
> I still don't have it fully set up
Highly recommend doing nix + nix-darwin + home-manager to make this declarative. Easier to futz around with.
unshavedyak
Seconded. I have a mostly CLI setup and in my experience Nix favors that on Mac, but nonetheless it makes my Nix and Linux setups a breeze. Everything is in sync, love it.
Though if you don't like Nixlang it will of course be a chore to learn/etc. It was for me.
1-more
drop $20/month for any LLM and you don't even have to learn it!
freeqaz
Use Aerospace for window management. No animations. No disabling of security. It just works. https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace
martypitt
I appreciate this comment!
I'm often envious of these Macbook announcements, as the battery life on my XPS is poor (~2ish hours) when running Ubuntu. (No idea if it's also bad on Windows - as I haven't run it in years).
Thanks for the heads-up.
coldtea
Not that useful as a heads up.
MacOS is great for development. Tons of high profile devs, from Python and ML, to JS, Java, Go, Rust and more use it - the very people who headline major projects for those languages.
2ish hours battery life is crazy. It's 8+ hours with the average Macbook.
theodric
> It's 8+ hours with the average Macbook.
Did I get a dud? I rarely get over 2.5
achandlerwhite
What are the quirks with local dev that make it not fun?
jayd16
There are surprisingly a lot of permission headaches and rug pulls in the last few big OS updates that have been really annoying.
konart
Any examples? I've been using mbpr since 2014 and haven't seen any changes recently except you have to hit "allow" button a few times.
coldtea
I use macOS, with all kinds of languages locally, plus vms, kubernetes, LLMs, etc and seen no such issues.
What "permission headaches"?
Zizizizz
For me, who came from linux the only thing I don't like is the overview menu's lack of an (x) to close a window. The way slack stacks windows within the app so it's hard to find the right one. Pressing the red button doesn't close the app from appearing in your CMD+Tab cycle between apps, you also have to press CMD+Q. (Just a preference to how windows and linux treat windows, actually closing them. Rectangle resolved the snap to corner thing (I know MacOS has it natively too but it's not too great in comparison).
Things I prefer: Raycast + it's plugins compared to the linux app search tooling, battery life, performance. Brew vs the linux package managers I don't notice much of a difference.
Things that are basically the same: The dev experience (just a shell and my dotfiles has it essentially the same between OS's)
tracker1
I think the hardest part for me, is getting used to using CMD vs CTRL for cut-copy-paste, then when I start to get used to it... in a terminal, it breaks me out with a different key for Ctrl+C. I got used to Ctrl+Shift for terminals in Linux (and Windows) for cut-copy-paste, etc.
It may seem like a small thing, but when you have literal decades of muscle memory working against you, it's not that small.
jtbaker
docker being nerfed is pretty much the only thing I can think of.
cbm-vic-20
Have you tried Apple's "container" tool?
null
sofixa
Docker works very weirdly (it's a desktop application you have to install that has usage restrictions in enterprise contexts, and it's inside a VM so some things don't work), or you have to use an alternative with similar restrictions (Podman, Rancher Desktop).
The OS also has weird rough edges when used from the terminal - there are read-only parts, there are restrictions on loading libraries, multiple utilities come with very old versions or BSD versions with different flags than the GNU ones you might be used to coming from Linux, the package manager is pretty terrible. There are things (e.g. installing drivers to be able to connect to ESP32 devices) that require jumping through multiple ridiculous hoops. Some things are flat out impossible. Each new OS update brings new restrictions "for your safety" that are probably good for the average consumer, but annoying for people using the device for development/related.
coldtea
>The OS also has weird rough edges when used from the terminal - there are read-only parts, there are restrictions on loading libraries, multiple utilities come with very old versions or BSD versions with different flags than the GNU ones you might be used to coming from Linux, the package manager is pretty terrible.
You use nix or brew (or something like MacPorts).
And they are mighty fine.
You shouldn't be concerned with the built-in utilities.
anajimi
I suggest trying Nix on Macos, it is very nice as a package manager but also it can be used as a way to replace Docker (at least for my needs, it works very well). This days I don't even bother installing brew on my Mac, I only use Nix.
jrochkind1
Am I remembering right that the previous 14" MacBook Pro started at $1399 (and seems to be no longer available?), so this is a $200 price increase?
kondro
Just give me cellular in a MacBook Air already Apple if you want me to insta-buy! Bonus points for OLED.
Air’s don’t have to be just cheap. I want a thin and light premium laptop for walking around and a second Mac (of any type) for my desk.
ksec
No WiFi 7 and WiFi 6E only is annoying. Especially for what they are charging. And Bluetooth 5.3, Their Pro Mac are slower than their iPhone Pro.
SSD has double the speed. I guess they say this only for M5 MacBook Pro, because the previous M4 has always had slower SSD speed than M4 Pro at 3.5GB/s. So now the M5 should be at 7GB/s.
I assume no update on SDXC UHS-III.
letmetweakit
Apparently, in Europe, the box will not contain a charger [1]. This is absolutely mind-blowing to me.
edit: suggested retail price also dropped with EUR 100. Mind is less blown now. It seems like a good thing in fact.
edit2: in Belgium, the combined price of the 70W adapter and 2m USB-C to MagSafe is EUR 120.
[1] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-macbook-pro-does-no...
Aurornis
Removing the charger is a good move, in my opinion.
USB-C chargers are everywhere now. Monitors with USB-C or Thunderbolt inputs will charge your laptop, too. I bought a monitor that charges over the USB-C cable and I haven’t use the charger that came with the laptop in years because I have a smaller travel charger that I prefer for trips anyway.
You don’t have to buy the premium Apple charger and cable. There are many cheap options.
I already have a box of powerful USB-C chargers I don’t use. I don’t need yet another one to add to the pile.
ahmeneeroe-v2
The battery is good enough that I often travel with just my phone charger. I can plug the laptop in at night when the slow charge rate isn't a hindrance and be fine with the all day battery life
ksec
>USB-C chargers are everywhere now
USB-C 15W Chargers may be everywhere, but higher power charger required for MacBook Pro is not.
I would have agreed if the devices is using 10W or 20W where you could charge it slightly slower. Not for a 70W to 100W MacBook Pro though.
kmacdough
I've got several 50+W chargers from other devices (old mbp, soldiering iron, a generic one). If you don't have a high power charger, buy one. Easy enough. But there are plenty of use that don't need another.
SkyPuncher
I agree. I currently have 2 or 3 brand spanking new chargers sitting in the orginal Mac box.
On the go, I've bought a small GaN with multiple ports. At home, I already have all of my desks wired up with a Usb-c charger.
semi-extrinsic
Adding to the anecdata, the magsafe charger for my M1 MBP has been used a grand total of two times in five years.
leakycap
My MacBook M1 Pro started doing a fun thing where if the battery gets low enough, the ONLY way to power on the device is to use the exact charger it came with. Higher powered Apple chargers, or even 3rd party, do not bring it back to life.
Had a similar issue with my 2018 MBP Intel - the 86/87 Watt Apple charger was the only thing it would come to life with as the battery aged.
chrismorgan
My dad had similar trouble with an M1 MacBook Pro that got a depleted battery. Two chargers he had wouldn’t work, but fortunately the Anki charger that I used for my laptop did work with one of the cables that I had (though not another). Once it got a little juice into it, then it was fine and he could switch back to his. But I think he was a bit more careful to avoid total depletion after that.
In 2018 I had a phone that entered a boot loop: battery depleted, plug it in, it automatically starts booting, it stops charging while booting, it dies due to depletion, it recognises it’s plugged in and starts charging, boot, stop, die, start, boot, stop, die… I tried every combination of the four or five cables that I had with a car USB power adapter and someone’s power bank, nothing worked. Diverted on my way home (an 8 hour journey) to buy another phone because I needed one the next day. When I got home, I tried two or three power adapters with all the cables and finally found one combination that worked. I learned the lesson that day that allowing devices to deplete completely can be surprisingly hazardous.
kmacdough
If it's dead or if it's low?
In my experience a low-power charger will revive, you just must wait for it to hit enough SOC since it is effectively starting off the battery. This does take a while, but starting dead on a supply that can't guarantee enough power would be dumb.
yohannparis
I think it's awesome. I have way to many chargers, specially USB-C, 5, 10, 20, 35, 70, and 95W all over the house and office. If you need one, just shell the extra $100 that corresponds to your needs.
null
lm28469
The real crime is that it starts at 1799 euros, which is $2100, vs $1599 in the US, I know US prices are before tax but even with 20% VAT you're far off...
chrismorgan
ASUS’s ZenBook Duo (UX84060) is over 50% dearer in Australia than in the USA.
When it was announced, I expected it to be at least 4000 AUD (~2600 USD). When I heard it was starting at 1500 USD instead (~2300 AUD), I was astonished and very excited. And it still is that price… but only in the US. In Australia it is 4000 AUD (the 32GB/1TB model, which is 1700 USD, ~2600 AUD). So I sadly didn’t get one.
Is the rest of the world subsidising the US market, or are they just profiteering in the rest of the world?
StopDisinfo910
Apple overprices everything in the EU on top of not shipping new features. Currency risk is a thing but nowhere near the premium they charge. I personally vote with my wallet and stopped buying anything from them.
rogerrogerr
Who don’t you vote with your vote and oppose regs that are preventing Apple from shipping new features in the EU?
masklinn
1599 plus a 20% VAT is 1918. That's... far from the worst it's been TBH.
whydid
The EU requires a 1 year warranty on electronics, where in the US it's only 90 days. The higher cost of electronics reflects this.
ciupicri
It's 2 years according to https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
> Under EU rules, if the goods you buy turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them at no cost. If this is impossible or the seller cannot do it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you, you are entitled to a full or partial refund. You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee from the moment you received the goods. However, national rules in your country may give you extra protection.
> The 2-year guarantee period starts as soon as you receive your goods.
> If a defect becomes apparent within 1 year of delivery, you don't have to prove it existed at the time of delivery. It is assumed that it did unless the seller can prove otherwise. In some EU countries, this period of “reversed burden of proof” is 2 years.
leakycap
> where in the US it's only 90 days
As far as I know, the US has zero warranty laws. It can be zero days.
FirmwareBurner
*) 2 year is the warranty for consumers in the EU. 1 year only for business/enterprise customers
lysace
Apple has a 1 year warranty in the US.
https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/embedded-mac-w...
spookie
They've always been like this, it's why the market share is as as low as it is vs US.
thegreatpeter
what happened to US tariffs? how can they be cheaper in the US than EU?
wmf
Apple is exempt from tariffs.
reactordev
Tariffs... Someone has to pay them and it sure isn't Apple.
Moto7451
I think you read him backwards. It’s still cheaper in the US. Tariffs certainly exist in Europe but I’m unaware of any on these laptops and US Tariffs on goods from China don’t apply to goods from China to anywhere else that isn’t the US.
MagnumOpus
Macbooks shipped to Europe don't ever touch US ground (and I'd wager 99.9% of their parts don't either). So US tarriffs should be irrelevant - and the EU doesn't have big China tarriffs outside of EV and solar panel anti-dumping retaliation.
kwanbix
Of course you are not wrong.
Apple could subsidize abosorving part of the tariff in USA by overcharging in EU.
That said, in EU we have 2 years warranty.
VAT in USA is not more than 12%.
pigeonhole123
It's much cheaper in the US
hexbin010
Bizarrely you can only select a new adapter during the configuration if you select 24GB RAM or higher
Prices are about 65 EUR for a 70W (tested DE + CH)
The EU law states they must provide an SKU without an adapter - i.e. they're still allowed to offer one with a power adapter.
null
tobi_bsf
Not sure about that. I never use my official charger and the magsafe cable but man, how did we arrive here. Some things just belong to a laptop.
scosman
Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box. The box will probably be less than half as thick, doubling shipping efficiency. These are air freight, so the CO2 impact is not negligible.
I'll take the discount and use one of my 12 existing USB-C chargers.
leshenka
There are more 90W-capable USB-C chargers in my home than there are laptops. I certainly don't need another one. Honestly I'd be fine for them to just remove the box altogether and use paper envelope like Steve Jobs did once.
coldtea
>Don't forget the environmental impact of a smaller box
Compared to the marginal environmental impact to source materials, build hardware and parts, assemble, ship, stock, and transport to customer each unit, the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent.
leakycap
> ship ... the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent
This is not how shipping works.
A larger box, even by 1 inch on any direction, absolutely makes a huge difference when shipping in manufacturing quantities. Let's not pretend physical volume doesn't exist just to make an argument.
10 planes flying with MacBooks == much different than 1 plane (in other words, when you 10x the size of something, as you suggest, it does actually have a huge impact)
null
chvid
My mbp came with a 140w charger - which I never use.
WXLCKNO
Pretty funny how they're actively targeting M1 users with their marketing copy with this release.
Sorry you made your first gen chip so good that I don't feel the need to upgrade lol.
michelb
One of the problems is that I don’t notice a meaningful difference(that’s worth the money) between my M1 and my M4 workloads. (Dev/video). Obviously the rendering is faster but the OS isn’t. Tahoe makes my M2 feel like an intel mac.
Chip, memory and storage are really fast, but I’m fully convinced that the OS is crippling these machines.
tracker1
I got that as well.. more annoying are comparisons with the last Intel options, which sucked then.
I'm still doing fine with a 16gb M1 Air, I mostly VPN+SSH to my home desktop when I need more oomph anyway. It lasts a full day, all week when you just check email on vacation once a day.
gregoriol
Only the cheapest MacBook get M5, the rest stay with M4 Pro and M4 Max? what's going on with that lineup?
pram
Because there is no M5 Pro and Max yet obviously.
AlexeyBrin
At least for now, seems to be available only for the 14" MacBook Pro. I want a 16" M5 MacBook Pro so I will wait ...
tracker1
What really bugs me, is the huge performance gains are against the M1 and an (5-7yo chip) Intel Mac, that from my own memory had throttling and overheating issues. While not as impressive, I'd really appreciate if they simply showed the generational gains, or actual charts against several previous generations.
I'm still pretty happy with my 16gb M1 Air, but it would be nice to know some closer to real world differences.
leakycap
You can't expect Apple to make an argument against their own chips... you're asking them to admit that they are making ~20% a year improvements when they want buyers to think it's a multiples-of-X improvement.
defraudbah
it says "up to 14 hours more than intel based mpro", which means intel was designed to last 10 hours which matches what was advertised https://web.archive.org/web/20201109092341/https://www.apple...
we went from 10 hours to 24 hours in 5 years - impressive
i wonder why they advertise gaming on the laptop, anyone plays anything Meaningful on macbooks?
mjamesaustin
I play absolutely everything on my M1 Macbook Pro. Through Crossover, basically every Windows game runs fine. I used to check ahead of time before buying a game, but it's so good I now kind of just assume games work.
nrjames
I do almost all of my gaming on an M3 MacBook Air. It’s great for games. I’ll sometimes hop on Windows for titles unavailable on the Mac, but increasingly I just skip them if they aren’t on Steam for MacOS.
greenpresident
Baldurs Gate 3 runs great on m4 pro at 1080p (I’m on a Mac mini though).
defraudbah
mac mini is amazing, even though happy to hear people play games on macbooks
youniverse
I would guess they are mostly talking to game devs for now, but man in a few years if Apple can get me to throw out my windows rig that me and I imagine many others have around just for gaming I wouldn't hate that!
shepherdjerred
Most of the games I play (League of Legends, Civ, Factorio) work really well on my MacBook.
eagleinparadise
Anyone know when to expect the M5 Pros? I am on a base 16gb M1 and struggling hard in daily workloads. I am often running at 20gb of swap memory usage.
I don't really use local LLMs but think 32GB RAM would be good for me... but I am so ready to upgrade but trying to figure out how much longer we need to wait.
fellowniusmonk
First rule of mac world is get the most memory you can afford.
I got the cheapest m1 pro (the weird one they sold thats binned due to defects) with 32gb ram and everything runs awesome.
Always get the most ram you can in mac world. Running a largish local LLM model is slowish but it does run.
A mac out of memory is just a totally different machine than one with.
probably because most of the devs building the software are on the highest ram possible and there is just so much testing and optimization they dont do.
null
mjamesaustin
Rumors suggest they might be early next year, or likely by spring.
jsheard
There was a 6 month gap between the M4 and M4 Pro, so maybe a while.
leakycap
This gap makes no sense to me. I wonder if Apple is just leaning into this cycle because it's easier to make M5s than more advanced processors, so you can sell this sooner?
From a buyer's perspective, I don't like it at all.
jasonthorsness
I've been a Windows fan forever, but the new Mac hardware is making it hard to remain and it's about time for a new laptop... can't get a good Windows installed on these chips like you could on the Intel-based ones, only virtualized.
rogerrogerr
Virtualized Windows on M chips is quicker than non-virtualized Windows on your average corporate laptop in my experience.
leakycap
ARM Windows still has so many pain points, depending on your niche.
To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future.
Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification.
1. Everything is just slightly different. I had to split all my dot files into common/Linux/Mac specific sections. Don't expect to be able to clone and build any random C++ project unless someone in the project is specifically targeting Mac.
2. Not everything is supported natively on arm64. I had an idea and wanted to spin up a project using DynamoRIO, but wasn't supported. Others have mentioned the docker quirks.
3. The window manager. I'm not a fan of all the animations and needing to gester between screens (and yes, I've been down the hotkeys rabbit hole). To install a 3rd party window manager you need to disable some security setting because appearantly they work by injecting into the display manager and calling private APIs.
So my person takeaway was that I took the openness of the Linux ecosystem for granted (I've always had a local checkout of the kernel so I can grep an error message if needed). Losing that for me felt like wearing a straightjacket. Ironically I have a MBP at work, but spend my day ssh'd into a Linux box. It's a great machine for running a web browser and terminal emulator.