Trees on city streets cope with drought by drinking from leaky pipes
40 comments
·August 22, 2025Rygian
Sidetracked by the nominative determinism in the article (researcher André Poirier's surname means "pear tree").
x775
> Maple trees need to consume around 50 litres of water per day. Since street trees can’t get much of this from rainwater, which falls on concrete and drains into the city’s sewers, Poirier says the most likely explanation is that it is coming from Montreal’s leaky pipes, which lose 500 million litres of water per day.
I feel like this is burying the lead.
What can be done to reduce leakage?
lupusreal
Why should anything be done to reduce leakage? They take water out of the St Lawrence and, as much isn't diverted by trees, it goes back in (cleaner then when it came out.)
londons_explore
I wonder how much human health is impacted by these leaky pipes.
I would like to see a city where pipes are guaranteed leak free, for example by making them double walled with high pressure air in the outer layer, and then seeing if disease levels in the city are lower.
Jenk
That double wall thing is a red herring. The water system already protects against intrusion because the water itself exerts pressure on the pipes. Thus leaks are typically of the water getting out and not contamination of the water (most of the time, anyway.)
Contamination rarely happens outside of the source of supply, and not somewhere along the pipeline.
nashashmi
Water pipes are under pressure. So outside water and pollutants do not infiltrate into leaky pipes. Unless you have a water shutoff. But those situations are minimal.
gnopgnip
Alameda county does something similar for health reasons. All home sales require pressure testing the sewer lateral. With replacement required if it fails before the deed can transfer or a loan is funded.
ocdtrekkie
For what it's worth, utilities do care quite a bit about leaks (it's service they are providing which they can't bill for!) and use various testing apparatus to locate leaky parts of underground systems for repair and replacement.
Considering the difficulty and cost of repairing underground anything, most of which will be there for many many decades, it's never going to be perfect, but there's a lot of resources that do go into improving this.
npstr
Why can't they bill for it? It's not like they are losing money on it, it's simply getting priced into the billable services they provide. Utilities are usually monopolistic, so there is little incentive for them to fix this.
Aromasin
We already have this data in a way, from cities where there is no running water and people rely on bottled water for drinking and washing.
cluckindan
That’s not biased at all.
cyanydeez
Those leaks are 99.9% one way.
londons_explore
That way being 'sewage leaking into the ecosystem '?
Followed by ecosystem being collected and put back into drinking water, most of which only has pretty lightweight treatment which doesn't even involve testing for any viruses which have snuck through.
likpok
The pipes are pressurized, so I would expect there to be limited avenue for infiltration. (Also, for sewage exposure, you’d need two leaks close together. Not impossible or anything, but much less likely.
_qua
500 million liters of water a day lost to leaks!
panarchy
Or if you're a willow tree you make a leaky pipe.
mleo
We had a lemon tree that did this. The irrigation line connector was probably not 100% sealed and the roots grew to it slowly broke it. It enabled the lemon tree to gets lots of water and grow. Meanwhile the trees further down the irrigation line suffered.
buildsjets
Some genius planted a curly willow right in the middle of my house’s septic drain field. That tree cost me $20,000.
hinkley
You’re not supposed to plane ANY trees in the middle of the septic system.
xenotux
> While the park trees contained lead isotopes normally associated with air pollution, the street trees had isotopes found in lead water pipes, which were made with metal from geologically old deposits in nearby mines.
I don't understand this part. We didn't use different sources of lead to make leaded gas and lead pipes, no?
throwup238
Tetraethyllead production was very centralized by Ethyl corp/DuPont and required a higher purity lead ore so their isotope ratios are very well known based on the deposits that they mined. More locally sourced lead used for construction will have different isotope ratios.
striking
When you need a lot of lead (enough to build plumbing for a neighborhood), you probably want to source it locally. When "1 part TEL to 1300 parts gasoline by weight is sufficient to suppress detonation",[1] you can source the lead from just about anywhere and ship it with the fuel.
null
estimator7292
We didn't put elemental lead in gasoline, it was a very different molecule with a single lead atom. Given how dense lead is, you want to source it from as physically close as you can. A foundry making pipes in a city with a lead mine nearby will obviously use the local lead.
For gasoline, all production had to be centralized in a few refineries. The lead would have been shipped in, and would have been largely the same quality and age, likely coming from the same mine, or geographically close mines. Plus the absolute quantity of lead added to gasoline is relatively small. In the 60 years the US used TEL, we processed about 8 million tons of lead. Averaged out, it's 133 thousand tons a year. It would only take a few mines to provide that much. Probably not more than five or ten, but I can't immediately find good data on this.
One would expect that the lead used in gasoline is pretty homogeneous across time, and that intensive lead use (as in casting into solid metal object like pipes) would use the nearest available source, and use that source for as long as possible.
metalman
lead from pipes was mined localy, but the lead in parks soil is from airborn pollution and so the isotope signature will be quite different
abstractspoon
This is not news. Having to rebore pipes due to tree roots has been around for decades
abhiyerra
Heh. Yesterday, we had a plumber over who told us we have to rebore our sewage pipes because roots got in. It is an old house with cast iron pipes and they still got in.
HarHarVeryFunny
I've never heard it called "reboring" - wonder if there is a different procedure for when it gets really bad, but I'd have thought problems (backup) would happen pretty quickly, so wouldn't be too bad as long as you take care of it.
They basically use something like a weed whacker fed down the pipe, except it uses a short bit of chain instead of trimmer line, and will pulverise any intruding roots.
bombcar
Cast Iron’s worse than plastic because they always leak a tiny bit and that means that the roots can “smell” the water and go for it.
Plastic either is impervious or completely fucked.
2OEH8eoCRo0
I get tree root intrusion where my newish plastic sewer main joins the street sewer.
metalman
there is a new to me datum in that trees along residential streets are experiencing less water stress than trees in parks, due to city water leakage that was demonstrated by doing core samples on the trees to show how lead isotopes differed in the two populations of trees. it highlights a growing concern with water in general and how carefull water monitering and management is becoming, and how what was primarily interesting to civil engineering types, has a wider audience
KritVutGu
[dead]
pessimizer
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rebore#English
They mean clearing tree roots out of the pipes, and patching them.
bombcar
Or the modern method of inflating a new pipe inside the old pipe, bursting the old pipe
null
https://archive.ph/5gJNi