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Writing with LLM is not a shame

Writing with LLM is not a shame

107 comments

·August 24, 2025

nicbou

I think it's fair to use AI as an editor, to get feedback about how your ideas are packaged.

It's also fair to use it as a clever dictionary, to find the right expressions, or to use correct grammar and spelling. (This post could really use a round of corrections.)

But in the end, the message and the reasoning should be yours, and any facts that come from the LLM should be verified. Expecting people to read unverified machine output is rude.

amiga386

> Expecting people to read unverified machine output is rude.

Quite. Its the attention economy, you've demanded people's attention, and then you shove crap that even you didn't spend time reading in their face.

Even if you're using it as an editor... you know that editors vary in quality, right? You wouldn't accept a random editor just because they're cheap or free. Prose has a lot in it, not just syntax, spelling and semantics, but style, tone, depth... and you'd want competent feedback on all of that. Ideally insightful feedback. Unless you yourself don't care about your craft.

But perhaps you don't care about your craft. And if that's the case... why should anyone else care or waste their time on it?

jasonb05

> ...why should anyone else care or waste their time on it?

Sometimes we (I) might follow ideas over authority/authorship. e.g.: I'll happily read ai generated stuff all day long on topics I'm super into.

Do I have to be the instigator? Can someone else prompt/filter/etc. for me? I think so. They'll do it differently and perhaps better than me.

krisoft

> You wouldn't accept a random editor just because they're cheap or free.

If the alternative is no editor then yeah i would. Most of what i write receives no checks by anyone other than me. A very small percentage of my output gets a second set of eyes. And it is usually a coworker or a friend (depending on the context of what is being written.) Their qualification is usually that they were available and amenable.

> Unless you yourself don't care about your craft.

This is a tad bit elitist. I care about my craft and would love if a competent, and insightfull editor would go over every piece of writing i put out for others to read. It would cost too much, and would be to hard to arrange. I just simply can’t afford it. On the other hand I can afford to send my writings through an LLM, and improve it here and there occasionaly. Not because i don’t care about my craft, but precisely because I do.

dr_dshiv

> Its the attention economy, you've demanded people's attention, and then you shove crap that even you didn't spend time reading in their face.

That’s the rudeness. But this takes care of itself— we just adjust trust accordingly

bluefirebrand

> But this takes care of itself— we just adjust trust accordingly

This should be viewed as an absolute unacceptable outcome

I want society to become higher trust not even lower trust :(

gs17

This approach is how I prefer to use it too. I write, it gives feedback, I revise based on which parts I thought it was right about. If I don't want to read raw LLM output, why would I make anyone else do it?

ekianjo

> message and the reasoning should be yours,

I think we havent realized yet that most of us don't really have original thoughts. Even in creative industries the amount of plagiarism (or so called inspiration) is at all times high (and that's before LLMs were available).

aeonik

Even novel thoughts are rarely original.

Every time I come up with an algorithm idea, or a system idea, I'm always checking who has done it before, and I always find significant prior art.

Even for really niche things.

I think my name Aeonik Chaos might be one of the only original, never before done things. And even that was just an extension of established linguistic rules.

treetalker

My great-great grandfather was named Aeonik Chaos!

saalweachter

Sure, but also, curation is a service.

An author that does nothing but "plagiarize" and regurgitate the ideas of others is incredibly valuable... if they exercise their human judgement and only regurgitate the most interesting and useful ideas, saving the rest of us the trouble of sifting through their sources.

lewdwig

With code, I’m much more interested in it being correct and good rather than creative or novel. I see it is my job to be the arbiter of taste because the models are equally happy to create code I’d consider excellent and terrible on command.

mediumsmart

Very few people do anything creative after the age of thirty-five. The reason is that very few people do anything creative before the age of thirty-five.

everdrive

Writing with LLM is also not writing. In some abstract sense, it may be plagiarism. In another sense, you're robbing yourself of one of the most crucial parts of writing: improved cognition. Anyone who edits voice transcripts knows just how much a normal person wanders, pauses, misspeaks, etc when talking. The act of writing forces you to refine thoughts you would not have otherwise had.

CuriouslyC

AI prose is mediocre right now. Too verbose, indirect constructions, passive, etc. That being said, it's actually a great editor and can pick out all those issues consistently.

My workflow right now is to use AI for rough draft and developmental editing stages, then switch AI from changing files to leaving comments on files suggesting I change something. It is slower than letting it line/copyedit itself, but models derp up too much so letting them handle edits at this stage tends to be 2 steps forward 2 steps back.

NicuCalcea

That's my main criticism as well. Even before we get to the ethical implications of AIs communicating on your behalf without a disclaimer, LLM writing is just poor and making me read through it is disrespectful of my time.

I recently had a colleague send me a link to a ChatGPT conversation instead of responding to me. Another colleague organised a quiz where the answers were hallucinated by Grok. In some Facebook groups I'm in where people are meant to help each other, people have started just pasting the questions into ChatGPT and responding with screenshots of the conversation. I use LLMs almost daily, but this is all incredibly depressing. The only time I want to interact with an LLM is when I choose to, not when it's forced on me without my consent or at least a disclaimer.

pton_xd

AI prose has been mediocre since the release of ChatGPT. My layman's interpretation is there's just no strong creativity / humor / etc signals to train on, as compared to say math or coding. Current models are "smarter" so when asked to produce eg a joke they think harder, but the end result always misses the mark just the same.

CuriouslyC

There's a difference between AI being bad at prose and storycraft. Good prose is totally achievable and it's just that it hasn't really been a priority for the tech shops, and I think they also often don't understand what makes really good prose so they're not good at optimizing for it anyhow. I expect given people's aversion to slop that the big laps will start to push hard on it soon and get their act together though.

macmar

This part of the text caught my attention the most.

"There are a lot of tools out there (Gramarly, Antidote for naming the most famous) and I did not see someone mentioning he used this or that."

I was criticized in another thread because I used a translation assistant to improve my text, a tool that, long before the current AI hype, everyone used to write more effectively.

People need to stop believing that the watchdogs of reason are the all-seeing eye(1989). Many people, in general, seek to be ethical and utilize tools to enhance their ideas (such as a text in a non-native language), and that's okay.

mentalgear

It's good for what all other LLMs are good for: semantic search, where the output can be generated texts to help you. But never get wrapped into the illusion that there is actual causal thinking. The thinking is still your responsibility, LLMs are just newer discovery/browsing engines.

lewdwig

There are nascent signs of emergent world models in current LLMs, the problem is that they decohere very quickly due to them lacking any kind of hierarchical long term memory.

A lot of what is structurally important the model knows about your code gets lost whenever the context gets compressed.

Solving this problem will mark the next big leap in agentic coding I think.

matt123456789

When I put real time and thought into an email—and the response I get back is obviously AI-generated—and it comes with no disclaimer—it infuriates me. Maybe the model happened to spit out exactly what the sender meant—just dressed up and grammatically polished. Doesn’t matter—I’d rather someone talk to me directly than funnel a thought through a word-grinder and hit send. Downvote me—call me anti-progress—I don’t care. I cannot stand undisclosed AI in conversation.

multjoy

I don't understand what people get from using a chatbot to write correspondence. It saves no time, and just ends up being long winded nonsense.

My stance is that if you're about to ask co-pilot, or whatever, to respond to me, then just send me the prompt you're about to enter as that will probably answer the question!

antonymoose

I recently had my first AI recruiter experience. To be clear, the person behind the account was a real person with a real business - except everything was uncanny valley levels of bad correspondence. I shortly disconnected and blocked this jerk.

null

[deleted]

recursive

Only you can decide if you feel shame for it. Just like only I can decide if I judge you for it.

dep_b

Just got a few recommendations by my colleagues on LinkedIn that were clearly written by an LLM, the long emdash was even present. But then again, the message was tuned to specific things I did. Also they were from Eastern Europe, so I imagine they just fixed their input.

If you call yourself a writer, having tell tale LLM signs is bad. But for people who's work doesn't involve having a personal voice in written language, it might help them getting them to express things in a better way than before.

SweetSoftPillow

I've been using em dashes since long before LLMs existed, and I won't stop. Some people might think it's a sign of an LLM, but I know it's just a sign of their own short-sightedness.

fluidcruft

Yeah, we smart people were using en and em dashes appropriately long before LLMs mimics appeared.

Latex power users unite against the markdown monkey keyboard mashers!

So... sorry (not sorry!) that LLMs try to be like us and not the heathens.

AlecSchueler

It's really frustrating to have to adjust my writing style to seem more human despite being entirely human. Many of us have been using em dashes for a long time, who else do people think the LLMs learnt it from?

viccis

Em dashes are fine in throwaway casual writing like internet comments or tweets or whatever. However, I think that, in any writing that is significant enough that LLM usage is scrutinized, they often just come across as a crutch to avoid more planned out sentence flow. I think it's actually a good thing that people are feeling like they should cut down on them.

d4rkp4ttern

Exactly. I think the whole emdash thing is a nonsense meme propagated by Xfluencers or LinkFluencers.

exe34

you'll have to get my en/em dashes out of my cold dead fingers.

Gigachad

Craziest thing I saw at work was someone using AI generated text in a farewell card. Like it's so obvious, it's so much more offensive to send someone an AI generated message than to just not send anything at all.

singpolyma3

What made it obvious?

Gigachad

Non native English speaker suddenly using very elaborate language, a particularly long message without any specific details, just fluffy phrases. And em dashes.

amiga386

> it might help them getting them to express things in a better way than before.

You know what people did before the AI fad? They read other people's books. They found and talked to interesting people. They found themselves in, or put themselves in, interesting situations. They spent a lot of time cogitating and ruminating before they decided they ought to write their ideas down. They put in a lot of effort.

Now the AI salemen come, and insist you don't need a wealth of ezperience and talent, you just need their thingy, price £29.99 from all good websites. Now you can be like a Replicant, with your factory-implanted memories instead of true experience.

bilvar

Did people really use to do all that work when someone asked them to write a recommendation on LinkedIn?

amiga386

No, but people who called themselves a writer did, or should.

latexr

> clearly written by an LLM, the long emdash was even present.

Can we please stop propagating this accusation? Alright, sure, maybe LLMs overuse the em-dash, but it is a valid topographical mark which was in use way before LLMs and is even auto-inserted by default by popular software on popular operating systems—it is never sufficient on its own to identify LLM use (and yes, I just used it—multiple times—on purpose on 100% human-written text).

Sincerily,

Someone who enjoys and would like to be able to continue to use correct punctuation, but doesn’t judge those who don’t.

ginko

So do you always put in the ALT+<code> incantation to get an emdash or copy&paste?

I feel the emdash is a tell because you have to go out of your way to use it on a computer keyboard. Something anyone other than the most dedicated punctuation geeks won't do for a random message on the internet.

Things are different for typeset books.

zahlman

On Linux, I configured my Caps Lock key to function as a compose key, and then use my ~/.XCompose file to make it easier.

I also set things up such that hitting Caps Lock twice in a row sends an Escape character, which makes using Vim a tiny bit nicer.

latexr

> So do you always put in the ALT+<code> incantation to get an emdash or copy&paste?

There’s no incantation. On macOS it’s either ⌥- (option+hyphen) or ⇧⌥- (shift+option+hyphen) depending on keyboard layout. It’s no more effort than using ⇧ for an uppercase letter. On iOS I long-press the hyphen key. I do the same for the correct apostrophe (’). These are so ingrained in my muscle memory I can’t even tell you the exact keys I press without looking at the keyboard. For quotes I have an Alfred snippet which replaces "" with “” and places the cursor between them.

But here’s the thing: you don’t even have to do that because Apple operating systems do it for you by default. Type -- and it converts to —; type ' in the middle of a word and it replaces it with ’; quotes it also adds the correct start and end ones depending on where you type them.

The reason I type these myself instead of using the native system methods is that those work a bit too well. Sometimes I need to type code in non-code apps (such as in a textarea in a browser) and don’t want the replacements to happen.

> I feel the emdash is a tell because you have to go out of your way to use it on a computer keyboard.

You do not. Again, on Apple operating systems these are trivial and on by default.

> Something anyone other than the most dedicated punctuation geeks won't do for a random message on the internet.

Even if that were true—which, as per above, it’s not, you don't have to be that dedicated to type two hyphens in a row—it makes no sense to conflate those who care enough about their writing to use correct punctuation and those who don’t even care enough to type the words themselves. They stand at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Again, using em-dashes as one signal is fine; using it as the principal or sole signal is not.

exe34

no I use -- and ---. not all of us use Microsoft word for serious writing.

criddell

On Windows, I use autohotkey and have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts for producing characters that I use fairly often but are difficult to type.

My keyboard has no keypad so I’m not sure there’s another way.

acheron

You type -- and it gets auto converted.

jascha_eng

Fact is that I maybe saw it in 10% of blogs and news articles before Chatgpt. And now it pops up in emails, slack messages, HN/reddit comments and probably more than half of blog posts?

Yes it's not a guarantee but it is at least a very good signal that something was at least partially LLM written. It is also a very practical signal, there are a few other signs but none of them are this obvious.

latexr

> Fact is that I maybe saw it in 10% of blogs and news articles before Chatgpt.

I believe you. But also be aware of the Frequency Illusion. The fact that someone mentions that as an LLM signal also makes you see it more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion

> Yes it's not a guarantee but it is at least a very good signal that something was at least partially LLM written.

Which is perfectly congruent with what I said with emphasis:

> it is never sufficient on its own to identify LLM use

I have no quarrel with using it as one signal. My beef is when it’s used as the principal or sole signal.

yoz-y

Dubious. The only signal this gives that in aggregate people use AI. On individual basis, presence of em dashes means nothing.

CRConrad

> And now it pops up in emails, slack messages, HN/reddit comments and probably more than half of blog posts?

Yeah, maybe that's the one thing people who didn't know how to do it before have learnt from "AI" output.

CRConrad

> the long emdash [...] tell tale LLM signs

I so wish people would stop spouting this bogus "sign" — but I know I'm going to be disappointed.

singpolyma3

... you know all serious writers use mdash right? This is not so magic LLM watermark

dsq

I would rewrite the title as "There's no shame in writing with LLMs", or, "Writing with LLMs is nothing to be ashamed of".

dang

You're right, of course, but the original title manages to still be grammatical and the altered meaning has its charm.

pessimizer

The problem with LLMs is that they write badly. If you want to use a LLM to write, prompt it with what you wrote and ask it to summarize concisely. If it doesn't understand what you meant, you should fix that part and resubmit (to a fresh context.)

The main reason, however, that one shouldn't "write" with LLMs is because it's a waste of everyone's time. If they wanted to know what GPT-5 thinks, they can ask it themselves.

edit:

> The problem is not the use of AI but the people how think they can, arbitrarily, criticize the work from someone else because he used or not AI in the name of “ethics”.

Ah, I didn't realize that the real problem is that people complain about it. If we can figure out a way to make those people shut up, then using LLMs to write for you would be perfectly fine.

phoenixhaber

There are several issues at play here that I think need to be disentangled seeing as I'm someone that cares deeply about writing and books.

First, there is the question of the mythology of the author. Would Shakespeare be himself if he had an AI ghost write his books? Would we care as much?

Setting that aside there's nothing to say that an AI will come up with something wholly novel that's not a pastiche of what's come before. Would it be able to come up with the next Dracula? Or the next meme genre of your particular favorite? What about writing style? It could mimic Clarice Lispector but it couldn't create a new one of her. If it did so we wouldn't recognize it as something human that we would be forced to care about in some way. IF an AI came up with a Lispector and we hadn't seen a type of her before perhaps we would think that the machine is hallucinating.

More than that though, why should I buy a book that an AI wrote? I can just ask an AI to tell me a story. Or I can read all of the books that were written pre 2000 - there are more than enough to satisfy my curiosity and desire for enlightenment before machines were used to print money for those that have access to them. For me that's the most galling - it shows that the people that have access to money and the means to make a machine do the thinking for them are unable to come up with an original idea, excepting insofar as they push a button or give a prompt. In a few years when AI achieves consciousness, which I believe it will, we'll be able to have machines that can write their own novels if we wish and they want to do so. Then we can judge them by it's own merits. In the meantime if the person writing the book doesn't have anything interesting to say and isn't an intelligent person and wants to send me a dead tree with information inside it that a machine wrote, what's the value added other than me taking a picture of the blurb on the back and feeding it into an AI and having that AI recreate the book? The paper it's printed on?

EDIT - where AI (not AGI) is important is in doing the sort of hard combinatorial analysis that is so difficult in diffuse systems like traffic control and industrial control of city services or combining chemical and biological synthesis for drug research such as protein folding. AI as a tool for art is one thing, but having an AI create your doctoral dissertation or come up with a book is another. If you can ask an AI to find a cure for a disease or a novel drug and it tells you how step by step by all means do it because it would be absurd not to. It doesn't prove how intelligent you are in that field however - there probably should be altered qualifications for how we rank how useful people are in society given AI prompts and there will be over time unless society just devolves into a "whoever has the most compute wins" dystopia. In which case I'm going back to Plato and Jules Verne.