Healthy soil is the hidden ingredient
58 comments
·April 16, 2025tbrownaw
marginalia_nu
Sometimes I get the feeling you gotta tie your research to AI in some tenuous fashion to get research funding.
bgnn
I started my gardening adventure with vegetables in pots. It was perfect, plants gave amazing yield, but required too detailed care and attention every day (or sometimes 2-3 times a day in a hot dry summer day). When I have moved to planting in soil I was shocked how worse the plants are doing. Same tomatoes giving 10-15 kg per plant yield in pots were under 3kg in soil. They got more disease issues, more pests (slugs and snails!).
After talking to fellow natural hobby farmers I realized the soil quality was garbage (lack of earth worms and insects), and there were severe drainage and water holding issues: weirdly the soil didn't hold water but it drained way too slow too. So, ehen it rained it was swamped for days but when it got dry none of that water stayed at the top 1 meters of the soil. I'm lucky to find amazing help from local natural farmers, so I got natural green compost (no animal products/byproducts). I have been introduced to no-dig farming too. So first year I started by applying 20cm thick compost on top soil, after putting a layer of old paper boxes against weeds. Then planted my seedlings on these, with worm poop and for some phosphate loving plants bat guano as fertilizers around the plants, topping of with hemp mulch and cacao shell mulch as topping. When this soil has sunken enough, topped off with 2-3 cm compost and mulched again. I have sprinkled insect friendly flowers to attract insects too. This was an amazing succes with not only plants flourishing, fighting diseases much better and resulting in an amazing yield. I didn't need to water as often as before (4x less frequent than before in the soil, 8x less frequent than in the pot). After year 3 I stopped all fertilization and introduced cover crops that could be used as mulch and fertilizer at the same time.
This process though is not linear. I still have plants which are not successful at all. I can grow juicy tasty watermelons in a northern European country but no parsnips or carrots or cauliflowers yet. This is what I love though, I'm interacting with a living microbiome rather than executing lab experiments. Failures are keeping it interesting and improving learning.
GenerWork
When you say that you put a layer of old paper boxes against weeds, does that mean you put the broken down boxes first, and the put the compost on the top? If so, were the seedlings able to sink their roots through the paper boxes and go deeper into the ground?
Also, what cover crops did you introduce?
hinkley
Cardboard doesn’t last long when it’s wet, but long enough to smoother the plants beneath it. There’s something about it that attracts the fungi that break down wood fiber. And the continuous surface allows it to spread quickly.
bgnn
I just put them dry, not broken, and overlapping between the boxes such that they cover the surface fully. And yes, the roots can go down, but weeds cannot go past that easily. The theory is yhe upwards growth is weak but downwards growth of the roots are much stronger and they can puncture a wet paper box.
Cover crops: clover, buckwheat and winter rye. Cut before seeding and lay them flat over the surface.
vanattab
I could see this being the reason your carrots didn't grow well though. If the carrots tap root struggles a bit through the cardboard it could mess up devlopment. I think this is why they say not to transplant carrots. The tap root bottoms out quickly and struggles to recover.
MortyWaves
That was a great read. This is what I hope to achieve too. I know what you mean about some crops that won’t grow at all, for me, it’s carrots. They are never more than a couple of centimetres long. Deeply frustrating. I’ve tried lots, including making the soil loose, making it compact, adding sand, etc.
Also Aloe Vera, absolutely the most frustrating house plants I’ve ever had.
bgnn
Glad you found it interesting!
It goes so quick with enough care, it's so fascinating. It's impossible to find any place without a lot of worms now.
I have the same issue with carrots. Parsnips are so much more harder though, they just don't grow any root at all!
johnisgood
Why do you find Aloe Vera frustrating? I mean, it grows quickly and requires very little maintenance. I suppose that could be seen as "frustrating" in the sense that it needs to be divided or thinned out regularly.
hinkley
Typical problem with aloe is overwatering. And modern potting soil often is loaded with sphagnum, which stays wet too long, and then when it dries it becomes hydrophobic so watering the plant doesn’t wet the entire soil.
photochemsyn
Odd that an article on healthy soil completely ignores the major health risk from growing food in regions with a long history of industry and mining, eg most of Europe, northeastern USA, etc. - Heavy metal contamination with species like lead, mercury, cadmium etc. There's a huge literature on the subject, but real-world monitoring is pretty light, certainly doesn't look standard:
>"Freslyn Mae, Camata, and Ryna Mae, Capurcos, and Eula Marie, Delino, and Gecelene, Estorico, (2025) Assessing the Sources and Risks of Heavy Metals in Agricultural Soils: A Comprehensive Review. International Journal of Innovative Science and Research Technology"
ralusek
I'm a gardening and landscaping enjoyer, but I am constantly confused about the bordering magical thinking surrounding dirt, among other aspects of growing things.
If you look at hydroponics/aeroponics, plants basically need water, light, and fertilizer (N (nitrogen) P (phosphorous) K (potassium), and a few trace minerals). It can be the most synthetic process you've ever seen, and the plants will grow amazingly well.
The other elements regarding soil health, etc, would be much better framed in another way, rather than as directly necessary for plant health. The benefits of maintaining a nice living soil is that it makes the environment self-sustaining. You could just dump synthetic fertilizer on the plant, with some soil additives to help retain the right amount of drainage/retention, and it would do completely fine. But without constant optimal inputs, the plants would die.
If you cultivate a nice soil, such that the plants own/surrounding detritus can be broken down effectively, such that the nutrients in the natural processes can be broken down and made available to the plant, and the otherwise nonoptimal soil texture characteristics could be brought to some positive characteristics by those same processes, then you can theoretically arrive at a point that requires very few additional inputs.
mattgrice
Hydroponics is great at growing plants that are great at growing in hydroponics. Generally that is short-lived annuals.
memhole
Maybe it’s because I started with hydroponics. I don’t get the fascination with soil or animosity about hydroponics being unnatural. People do vastly underestimate what it takes to create a good soil mixture, though. In the end, you’re suspending nutrients in a substrate for the plants to uptake regardless of how you go about providing them.
bgnn
I think what is forgotten is the organisms other than plants. Hydroponics is amazing for plants but not sure if you can sustain a wineyard in that fashion for long without having some kind of organism starting to cause issues. A well balanced soil doesn't only support the plants but also provides a healthy microbiome. Now, with the use of pesticides, artificial fertilizers, and tilling it's not less synthetic process than hydrophonics. Soil degradation in presence of these are so well documented and well understood that it's crazy we keep doing it.
lurk2
I think there’s a perception that hydroponic systems are less resilient as well as an erroneous belief that they are more complex than soil (their supply chains might be, but the systems themselves are not).
thatcat
There are also enzymes and secondary metabolites relevant to plant health associated with microbiome and ecological chains in healthy soil that go beyond the regenerative macronutrient cycles. If you try to grow edible fruits you'll notice flavor loss as a result of hydroponic / synthetic methods.
cellular
I am terraforming my limestone rocky terrain using leaves.
I believe they have trace minerals and the grub larve eat the oak leaves and poop amazing soil.
I now have 6" of black soil with earthworms!
This is in dry central Texas. Moisture helps microbial/fungal life. Leaves retain moisture.
Another key ingredient is pressure/compaction of leaves.
I have results on my YouTube channel: theRainHarvester
doodlebugging
I checked out your video collection. You have some very interesting stuff and I think I may be able learn a few things.
I also live in Texas, north Texas, on a dry limestone outcrop with soil depths averaging about 6" but highly variable due to the sloping nature of the property. My best, most fertile soils are underneath the hackberry/cedar elm/live oak stands on the property where leaves are allowed to accumulate and decompose. In the cleared area, it was farmed for hay, beans, corn, etc before we bought the place, the soil is pretty light, tends to dry out quickly and can be difficult to dig if it hasn't rained in a while. Under the trees it is dark and richly connected and you can dig with your fingers to the rock ledge underneath. It's some good shit.
We grow all our garden stuff in troughs and rings since growing in the soil requires too much water due to the oven effect in the summer where the near surface rock heats up and radiates all night drying the soil making it necessary to water daily. I'm on a private water well and not terribly enthusiastic about watering anything every day since it seems like a waste to plant things that won't grow without a lot of babysitting.
I also collect rainwater from my greenhouse roof and use a solar/battery setup to drive a water pump inside one of the tanks which is just a standard plastic rotomolded tank. The other tank I have is a stainless steel tank that I got for a song since it leaked like a sieve due to design issues. I can testify that flex-seal tape doesn't work. I sealed all the joints since all were leaking and every one of them developed leaks past the tape. The only notable difference that the flex-seal tape made was in slowing the leak enough that fine particulates began to accumulate in the leaky spots and that has allowed some of the largest leaks to become trickles so that the tank will now hold water. I believe that it will eventually seal itself as all the crud tries to escape the tank and ends up forming a nice organic seal. Big win for me. I just need to put a pump on it now and extend the line to my orchard at my hugelkulture berm.
You have a bit of cedar there. We use cedar mulch to control weed growth. It is an effective weed inhibitor where we have laid it down. I have tested cypress, cedar, and hardwood mixes and cedar definitely controls everything better. We have our annual weeding process set so that we take a few hours in the fall and spring to pull about 95% of things we don't want and then over the growing season we just spend a little time yanking new growth if it happens.
You can and also should incorporate composted grass clippings (weed-free or cut from an area with native grasses and flowers). This will help build rich soil too. Avoid anything from a place that has an invasive plant problem. I am eradicating several non-natives from my place as I slowly drag it back to a native plant property. I have an area of the garden that is set aside as a pollinator attractor and it is full of natives that keep it alive with bees and insects from spring until the first good freeze. It's really rewarding to step out and hear the activity as you stand under the blackberry arches that are loaded with berries and blossoms waiting for the bugs.
I'm gonna check out some of your work, especially the Arduino controlled pump setup inside your greenhouse, since I would love to monitor my own usage from the tank.
greenie_beans
sure, we can make them grow well in a lab. but a natural system is so much simpler and elegant
westurner
Plants absorb nitrogen and CO2 from the air and store it in their roots; plants fertilize soil.
If you only grow plants with externally-sourced nutrients, that is neither sustainable nor permaculture.
Though it may be more efficient to grow without soil; soil depletion isn't prevented by production processes that do not generate topsoil.
JADAM is a system developed by a chemicals engineer given what is observed to work in JNF/KNF. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38527264
Where do soil amendments come from, and what would deplete those stocks (with consideration for soil depletion)?
(Also, there are extremely efficient ammonia/nitrogen fertilizer generators, but still then the algae due to runoff problem. FWIU we should we asks ng farmers to Please produce granulated fertilizer instead of liquid.)
The new biofuel subsidies require no-till farming practices; which other countries are further along at implementing (in or to prevent or reverse soil depletion).
Tilling turns topsoil to dirt due to loss of moisture, oxidation, and solar radiation.
CrazyStat
The vast majority of plants do not absorb nitrogen from the air. Legumes are the well-known exception.
throeijfjfj
Most plants do not absorb atmospheric nitrogen, but need external nitride fertilizer to grow! That causes serious ground water polution!
> The new biofuel subsidies require no-till farming practices
This actually depletes soil of nitrogen!
bgnn
tilling with anything more than human power should be banned!
null
greenie_beans
and easier and time tested and resilient
lazide
Uh, pretty much every farmer I ever met is going to disagree.
Farming is hard, unpredictable (prone to disasters/famine/plagues), and prone to all sorts of problems with soil, weather, etc.
The reason modern fertilizer and pesticides are used so widely is they make that fundamentally extremely difficult process easier and more predictable.
jajko
Hydroponics eastable plant parts taste like crap, a very pale shadow of earth-grown ones.
Maybe there is some semi-magical way how to grow veggies in hydroponics well, but nobody doing mass produce figured that out so results are subpar on many aspects.
huntertwo
You need to spend more money on adding “optional” nutrients that would otherwise be produced by organic processes in a living soil. These nutrients are what add to flavor but don’t necessarily help with the growing process.
The distinction isn’t hydroponics vs soil - it’s organic vs inorganic farming. Non organic soil faces the same issues. Aquaponics (I.e organic hydroponics using fish and other aquatic organisms) also yield flavorful crops.
bethekidyouwant
they paywall right before they say anything of note I imagine this is climbing to the top because people like the idea of healthy soil. My very small organic no till garden is lots of manual labour. when one person grows food for 1 million I laugh to see a picture of someone standing in a field with a shovel ‘fixing soil’
bgnn
Well, I don't know about a million, but there are small scale profitable commercial farms doing this. One local farm I get my seasonal veggies from had 200 tonne carrot and parsnip over-production this year due to favorable conditions and they are tiny: https://www.noshitfood.nl/ [unfortunately only in Dutch]
righthand
People don’t stand in a field fixing soil one shovel at a time. They’re fixing soil with larger machinery and taking samples to research the soils fixes.
bethekidyouwant
Sure, but in this article, they talk about traditional methods of soil management. There’s nothing about stopping erosion or implementing no till on an industrial scale.
SwayamDas
Here are the primary components that you would require - 1. Organic Matter: Compost and mulch enrich soil and improve structure. 2. Microorganisms: Bacteria, fungi, and mycorrhizae break down organic matter and enhance nutrient uptake. 3. Soil Fauna: Earthworms, insects, and arachnids aerate soil and mix organic matter. 4. Nutrients: Macronutrients (N, P, K) and micronutrients (Fe, Mn, Zn, etc.) are essential for plant growth. 5. Soil Structure: Aggregates and porosity improve aeration and water retention. 6. Water Management: Proper irrigation and drainage ensure optimal soil moisture.
noefingway
Item 3 is important in more ways than most people realize. Last year many farmers in my area that planted soybeans early had a problem with slugs eating the sprouting beans and were forced to replant multiple times. This spring I went to a growers conference and heard a presentation by a Prof. Tooker from Penn State Ag about the slug problem, which he has been researching for several years. Turns out that the slug infestation can be directly traced to the use of insecticides used in seed treatments. The insecticides kill beetles (and other beneficial insects) that eat the slugs but don't kill slugs because they aren't insects (they are mollusks). No beetles more slugs. Take away is don't use treated seed. However, standard practice at seed companies is to treat seed with fungicides and insecticides, thus creating a problem rather than solving it.
cameron_b
The attempt is surely to solve for an abundance of beetles, but it is often helpful to think of many of these 'problems' as imbalances.
Nature does not work in two-variable equations, and the abundance or absence of an element typically has repercussions that are difficult to study.
An often-cited example of missing the bigger picture in controlling one variable would be the Chinese campaign against the Four Pests - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign
vaylian
When I think about insects and slugs, then slugs are typically considerably larger and have more body mass. Is it only the smaller slugs or slug eggs that the insects eat? I have a hard time imagining a beetle eating a slug.
cscheid
Please - if I wanted to know what an LLM thinks about this, I would have asked it myself.
malfist
I was just coming to comment the same thing. This seems like an ai bot answer. And it's a green username
panny
Amusingly, it is catastrophically wrong, like AI slop typically is.
tastyfreeze
2 provides 4 from the insitu minerals. It may be necessary to add minerals if you are growing plants that require something the native minerals dont have. But, the majority of minerals plants need are available everywhere. The soil biology is required to unlock it for plants to use.
If you see the macrobiota in soil it is an indicator microbiota is present. The more the merrier.
zeristor
There’s not that much in the article, it’s more of a setting the case.
Mention is made of “using AI” and other data sources, and that’s what I’d like to read far more about.
I wonder if the new future is writing MCPs so agents can access the data.
> project to assess soil erosion and degradation in vineyards using geographical mapping systems and artificial intelligence (AI). ... AI helps me to design and polish the software codes that I use
Is this describing use of something like GitHub copilot?