The death of the middle-class restaurant
67 comments
·April 6, 2025yummypaint
The closest thing to a 90s style affordable but good sit down meal I can reliably find in the US is from Mexican restaurants. The best ones are still locally owned and have lots of work trucks parked in the lot during lunch. These places are absolutely delicious and often cheaper than fast food.
quadrifoliate
The article and the analyses in it seem to have overlooked a couple of things:
- Decline in quality of food: As far as I know, pan pizza in the 90s at Pizza Hut (that the article talks about) had the dough made in house; modern versions have reheated frozen dough. I feel like this is an important distinction. If I'm just reheating frozen pizza, I can do that at home.
- Decline in quality of service: The article mentions this in passing (server knowing the order of a frequent customer) but doesn't go any deeper. In my experience, a lot of the servers (not just at chains, but everywhere) these days are younger people who seem pretty indifferent to the customer experience. Certainly I don't think that any servers at a Pizza Hut will remember someone's order in 2025.
The factors I mention above are hard to measure, especially over time. But I do feel like they have contributed to the decline of chains to some degree as well as things like orders to go, did delivery apps, etc.
dagw
Decline in quality of food
I honestly think this is a big one. I love restaurants and love going out to eat, but the number of restaurants I feel I want to go to just keeps declining. Places I used to love and go to weekly, I don't visit any more because the food just isn't good. I'm honestly having a hard time remembering the last time a new place blew me away. Combine that with rapidly rising food prices, and it's just not fun any more. Going out dropping $50+ and leaving slightly disappointed, is just depressing.
Eddy_Viscosity2
> reheated frozen dough
It doesn't stop there. Many of the big chain sit-down restaurants do little more than reheat pre-prepared items. You are basically getting airplane dinners. Its all centralized, mass produced, and cost-optimized.
ballenf
And I'm skeptical it's actually cost-optimized. I think it's effort-optimized. The owner doesn't have to supervise reheating pre-prepared meals that are microwaved. I guess that's another form of cost-optimized, but it just feels like most restaurants don't have anyone in charge with any incentive to care.
BriggyDwiggs42
Care costs money though right? Isn’t that cost optimization with extra steps?
jillesvangurp
Here in Berlin fast food chains are for the tourists. You pay way too much for crappy food. If you know where to go, you can sit down for a proper meal and pay far less.
There are about 40 Mc Donald's restaurants in Berlin. About 1 per 100K citizens. There are a few other chains operating of course but they are similarly small. There are 4000 kebab restaurants in Berlin. And loads of pizza, pasta, currywurst, sushi, etc. restaurants too. Probably close to 10K restaurants or so. The vast majority of which are not franchises. It's great.
Germany just seems to have a lot of rules that prevent franchising from being very lucrative. Whatever it is, I love it. I'm from the Netherlands. That's more like the US. Restaurants are expensive. Sitting down for a quick, affordable lunch is not much of a thing. It's either cheap fast food or self-catering in the super market/bakery. With all the health consequences as well. Obesity is on the rise and it's a poverty correlated thing. Food poverty means lots of fast food.
tom89999
Franchise is modern slavery. Not the first and the last one ended up in totally bankrupty. The chains know what they are doing and using such people as guinea pig for market research. They testing the waters if such a restaurant will make profit, if not, only a poor former owner will sue them, if he has money, energy and time for it.. They close that venue, picking up their machines and the owner is from now on without money. Self-employed people dont receive welfare benefits, nothing. Even if they have worked as employees before and paid taxes and insurances. Its suicide to run a business without money in the background. Not recommendable for unemployed, desperate and older workers.
aspect0545
What are some of your favourite places to eat out in Berlin? I wouldn’t call the Döner places a kebab restaurant by the way, but maybe that’s being picky
Yeul
I went to a restaurant last Friday with my mother and it cost 70 euro. Not something I personally can afford to do very frequently.
However thanks to the excellent Dutch pension system there is a boomer class that has lots of money keeping the economy afloat.
ashoeafoot
Ignore the colonized youth with no hope and no future , in the boomer empire the sun never sets.
southernplaces7
One type of restaurant that would be a great import into the U.S: The "comida corrida" places of where I live in Mexico. Basically, they're tiny, family-run sit-down joints with simple setup (sometimes being run right in the lower floor of someone's home or in their garage, repurposed with a kitchen addition) and simple but essentially home cooked and balanced fare. For the equivalent of 3 to 7 dollars, you get a starter, main course and desert for lunch (in some cases they also serve breakfast) The food isn't fancy, but it's freshly made and filling.
glimshe
There are some small Mexican restaurants like that here in the US. I often eat lunch at a small nearby Mexican restaurant and pay around $8 for my meal.
washmyelbows
Are these types of restaurants actually going away or are crappy chains just going under because better alternatives are a dime a dozen?
ghaff
I think it depends where you are. Other than airports (with "fast casual" burgers), I don't eat at midrange/low-midrange chains but that isn't really an option everywhere.
jghn
To your point, I can't remember the last time I've eaten at a national chain outside of airports. I don't understand why people do this.
ghaff
To write something shorter than the sibling comment: A lot of people just don't care that much and want something predictable. To another thread that was going on in a post yesterday or so, I'm not like that with restaurants but I often am with hotel rooms (though the middle-tier business hotels are still probably a few hundred dollars a night in large cities).
dagw
I don't understand why people do this.
If I'm in my small local town centre and want to grab a burger, the (slightly better) national chain is simply best burger on offer.
saghm
I suspect the reason is consistency. For the most part, getting something at a large chain is going to be pretty similar over time regardless of the location, so if you're really in the mood for something specific, it can be easier to go with a known quantity even if the overall quality is very mid. My wife and I have a bit of an in-joke every time we try a new restaurant about getting French fries because I tend to strongly prefer fries that are crispy, whereas she enjoys fries that are more "soft" as long as they're not soggy (like steak fries, crinkle fries, etc.) office times seeing fries on a menu doesn't make it at all clear what exactly you're getting, so probably at least half the time I end up just giving her fries that I order because they end up not being what I'm looking for. Getting fries from McDonald's or Wendy's or something isn't going to end up with you having the best fries you've ever tasted, but you know exactly what you're getting at least compared to a small individual restaurant, and for those of us with very specific preferences, it's just easier sometimes.
Even though this is a bit tangential (and not something you're calling out here), I'll also add that having struggled with being picky with things that are ostensibly the type of foods that picky eaters enjoy like fries has led to me to absolutely loath having to ask for details about stuff in restaurants. It probably doesn't help that I'm also on the spectrum and have suffered from social anxiety a lot over the years, but I'll never understand why so many people feel so entitled to demand explanations about why I don't like certain foods or ways that they're prepared when it doesn't affect them at all. It's not like I _want_ so many foods to taste worse to me than others, and yes I'm sure that with the right amount of effort and diligence I probably would eventually be able to get past most of it, but I don't see why that means that acquaintances or coworkers I'm not particularly close would think it's reasonable to interrogate me about it; if anything, having to try to explain myself makes it _more_ stressful and reduces the emotional energy I have to try to change things! Back when I worked in an office, I sometimes would literally try to time my lunch break to when nobody else would be in the cafeteria because so many people over the years would try to get me to explain why I would eat get food from the same restaurant multiple days in a row, and I got to the point where I would have anxiety about eating in front of other people. This isn't even touching on stuff like how hard it seems to be for some restaurants to follow what I'd consider to be very basic instructions (like "don't put mayonnaise on this sandwich" and how often times the "default" way something will be served will contain extra condiments or toppings that weren't even listed on the menu, and trying to deal with that just adds to the stress given how often times asking for the issue to be just leads to frustration on both sides. My point is that sometimes the choice of what to eat isn't just a choice of how to ingest calories but has social implications as well, and I think that attitudes like "I don't understand why people do this" can end up just reinforcing trends where some people will value consistency. If I'm hungry and just want to eat and get back to whatever I was doing beforehand, sometimes I'm just going to want to know exactly what I'm gonna be dealing with in advance, and unless I happen to already have spent the time to try out enough places to know what I like in the area, a national chain is a way for me to be reasonably confident about that.
smackeyacky
Because when you are travelling odds on the toilets are clean
mbfg
I live in a pretty sleepy farm type area, with a growing town in the middle. There are most of the main restaurant attractions. My wife and I are always amazed as we drive by the back to back Chili's, Outback and Texas RoadHouse., that are bustling at the seams, the parking lots are very often overflowing. We are amazed that there still are apparently plenty of people who can frequent these places.
So i can fully imagine that this article has it right, i just don't see it where i live.
jsemrau
One of the benefits of the increase in fast food prices is that local burger places have become the better option.
keiferski
I wish the concept of a milk bar would spread to America from Central/Eastern Europe. They are essentially a mix of an American diner and a cafeteria, where you can get cheap, good food that is already cooked (with a few exceptions like pierogi.) Think Chipotle but with local specialities and with an 80s communist-era vibe. It is usually fast but is much healthier than typical fast food chains.
Milk bars were started during the communist era and are still popular amongst the older (70+) crowd, but modern versions are a go-to for younger people too. And so you'll usually get a very interesting mix of society sitting side-by-side. Not quite a family dinner restaurant, but is a social restaurant concept nonetheless.
kleiba
> Where Will We Eat When the Middle-Class Restaurant Is Gone?
I currently live in a suburb outside a small city with a family of 5. I gues when the middle-class restaurant is gone I'm going to be eating exactly where I have been eating the last 10, 15 years: at home.
usui
Yes, let's mention the middle class squeeze, but also conveniently not talk about America's tipping culture problem which would increase reluctance to sit down at a restaurant. Yes, let's completely ignore that.
Everyone obviously wants to pay extra so they can be constantly badgered and rushed out the door like cattle, and if you complain about any aspect of this, the white knights come out to drown you as they say it's your fault for not understanding the plight of the woe-is-me restaurant worker and there's absolutely nothing to be done other than shame you into not going out to eat.
I wonder why sit-down restaurants are declining.
mstipetic
Do they really talk to you about it directly? Last thing I want is to feel guilty even going out to a meal
_nalply
Perhaps. I read about horror stories of servers chasing leaving customers and harrassing them for not tipping or too little.
But of course GP was deliciously ironic, so take all with a grain of salt and a dash of black humor.
khazhoux
> I wonder why sit-down restaurants are declining.
Not because of tipping.
sethammons
The rise of kiosk tip screens changes this. You are asked to tip someone behind a counter.
Tipping is not stopping a meaningful amount of people from going out.
gedy
I suppose it's because I grew up with it, but I greatly prefer food from these type of restaurants than from fancier more expensive restaurants.
jghn
You know that there's actual, indepently owned, restaurants that are way better than these thet aren't "more expensive", right?
I don't even know where the nearest applebees, chilis, etc is to me. I don't need to spend an arm & a leg to eat when dining out.
dagw
You know that there's actual, indepently owned, restaurants that are way better than these
Sure, sometimes. But honestly I find that this is rarely the case. The same economic pressures exist for the small independent restaurants as well, and they need to use the same 'tricks' to keep costs down. My 'favorite' reasonably price local place in my neighbourhood is a lovely place to go, nice vibe, often has live music and is run by nice people, but I'd be lying if I said the food was fantastic.
pfannkuchen
Don’t most of the chain restaurants serve essentially factory made food that is rehabilitated in the kitchen? Whereas I think most fancy restaurants I go to make the food from scratch. The latter seems better to me in theory, so I wonder if I value “made from scratch” more than you? Fancy restaurant food tends to have much more nuance and depth of flavor IME. Of course this doesn’t hold 100% of the time, I’ve certainly had bad food from expensive restaurants before.
gedy
Some do but wasn't always like that either. I really don't care for nuanced tastes, etc. at least when I'm hungry lol.
BobbyTables2
The fancier ones seem to have worse food, worse service, and are far more expensive.
tom89999
Take a closer look how often the waiters change/quit. In the beginning phase of such a restaurant, all is nice and well. For the google-recension. Then, price will rise and service will get worse. Even high priced restaurants serve dwarf-sized dishes, 2 potatoes and a tiny slice of meat. The wine maybe expensive, but isnt it just grape juice? Also, the food industry is very creative to produce stuff that looks like home-made, at a cheap price. Or the recycling approach. Put sugar on your potatoes and let the dish half finished go back. Wait for the next customers complain about "sweet potatoes".
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