HP avoids monetary damages over printers in class-action settlement

Yep. There are three parties here: HP, the people they hurt, and the class action lawyers.

It’s better for both HP and the class action lawyers to get a resolution that doesn’t cost HP too much, doesn’t bind HP’s future actions, and pays out nicely to the class action lawyers.

I was not aware of this fact before I watched Better Call Saul. Really opened my eyes how the complete system is optimized to screw anyone who seeks justice.

Somewhat related:

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/gloria-allred-sex-abuse-cele...

I just started to realize that law firms are businesses, and what they care about the most, above everything else, is making a profit. Are these lawyers warriors for women's rights? Maybe. But what I know for sure is that they want to make money more than they want to be warriors. Which explains why they can directly talk to the other party's lawyers and get you a decent settlement, instead of actually going through litigation, at all.

Yes, actually, this monetization strategy is quite common, especially among smaller firms.

I know of a few here in Montreal, Canada, that will go after any big company (Mastercard, Facebook, Google, you name it) with random class action lawsuits. Then they settle as quickly as possible and cash out, usually with a payout in the $500K to $5M range.

To keep costs low, these firms often rely on interns, who are either unpaid or minimally paid and may only retain one or two actual lawyers.

It's become a whole cottage industry, kind of like patent trolling.

I wonder if, after becoming successful, every company ends up turning into a law firm - ie dominated by lawyers and accountants. Instead of innovating, the only thing they know how to do is extract money from their product line in increasingly user hostile means.

Sure. And they'd get what? Based on this outcome - nothing.

Because the average consumer has zero way to judge the quality of a printer or the likelihood of them doing something like this, either now or in the future (considering how well this turned out for HP, there's no reason why their competitors wouldn't try doing the same thing).

Most people are not technically informed.

Most people are the parents of students going to school, teachers, trades people opening a store… they walk into BestBuy and they recognize the brand HP.

HP has massive marketing budgets and gets to package and discount their printers.

Most people think they’re getting an amazing printer at a great deal.

My printer has worked really well and for whichever reason I haven’t been hit by any of those HP shenanigans. Maybe it’s because I haven't installed any HP drivers or software? Not needed on Linux or ios which is what I have. Works great, network-enabled and supports AirPrint so we can print from our phones (95% of our printing needs). Toner is expensive and I’ve only ever used HP toner; third-party toner requires cannibalizing the chip from original cartridges which I’m too lazy to do. Color Laserjet pro m255dw. I still probably wouldn’t buy another HP given all the user hostility :)

I don't understand this broad take. HP makes two classes of printers for home and SOHO market. Low end and High End. There's no middle (aka the Sony model).

Lower end printers are really low quality. They have low monthly output thresholds, have lower quality ink, and have low end hardware which needs firmware on every boot, etc. They wear out and die. I worn one down, I know.

Their higher end printers are good. They use better inks. They cartridges are more reasonable (Ink Advantage Series), they work really well with anything from mac OS to Linux to your kitchen sink, because they talk PDF over well defined protocols, and they're reliable. They last more than a decade, and they don't wear down. My 4510 still goes strong, for example, and it works like the way I bought it the first day.

If you go even higher end, these models use full pigment ink sets for even more durable and color correct prints. Higher end home printers use pigment black and dye color sets.

Aren't there other good brands? Oh yes. Lexmark's lasers are good. Samsung used to make terrific laser printers with Xerox. People say Brother is also good. I didn't use them, I can't comment.

Lastly, I always say and will always say so. Not all ink is created equal, ink is not simple science. There's a specific reason why HP and Xerox have their own labs and patents on ink/toner formulation and delivery.

Cheap up front cost and an unwillingness to estimate long term costs.

My Color Laserjet M478f-9f purchased two years ago is amazing. It required no configuration for phones or computers, scans and faxes prints, and is generally a high quality piece of kit. It is the best printer I’ve owned, and I have owned a few Brother laser printers and old school Laserjets. Hell, I owned one of the first NEC postscript laser printers back in the 90s.

It’s not cheap, but it just works.

I can’t defend the bullshit business practices, but the “medium” business class Laserjets are high quality. I wouldn’t touch anything SMB or residential with a 50 foot pole.

Are their laserjet MFPs bad?

The problem is when competitors follow HP in this product-enshittification.

Will you build your own printer when the other brands all go the HP way ?

I will avoid printing as much as possible --- which is about what I do now.

I have a Canon color laser for business use which accepts 3rd party toner. For photos and the occasional large print job, I outsource to Walmart or Office Depot.

Ink jet is totally out; essentially worthless for my needs and nothing but an exercise in frustration.

The problem is not that skill is expensive, it is that methods are inapt and archaic.

If I told you coding was unsatisfactory in a scenario where a human compiler was required to process each instruction, the correct response is not "developers" and "corporations". There is a right and wrong and our judges and lawyers demonstrate over and over they have not constructed a modern system for doing or finding it.

Rhetorical, but why do lawyers have to be expensive when they can be your only recluse against being abused by companies? That's part of the problem right there. I understand that law needs to be meticulous, but we're clearly doing something wrong if the system is disproportionately hitting wallets wrong.

The legislative stuff is unfortunate, but partially brought upon by the people. That one more falls to lack of understanding from the voterbase that put those people in. Someone like Nancy Pelosi or Matt Gaetz should not have been so easy to keep winning more terms if you spent 2 minutes researching them. But alas.

Alphabet pushes a "dynamic security update” to your phone tomorrow, blocking the third party apps. They didn’t brick your phone, you still can continue to download and use their apps!

How does this not fall under anti-competitive practices?

Class actions aren't really known for their activism per se. A lot of setting it up is just calling or emailing people and getting their signature. I'm not too surprised the engagement is on the level of a Change.org petition.

>their reported fees are $750k, which seems like not much to be honest.

paying themselves high 6 figures to just shake hands with oligarchs is way too much, imo. There was no justice here, they just wanted a cut of the heist.

There is a gigantic market of vendors choose from, and sometimes it’s easiest to just say “We’re going to avoid vendor X because they create risk for us.”

The above poster didn’t say he’s banning HPE, either. Just HP. I doubt anyone will really suffer from banning HP products.

We have a policy of only buying Brother, Epson, and Canon desktop/office printers with an exception for Lexmarks that are laser printers and have specific built in features. It means a lot less drama supporting them and getting supplies (even though we only use OEM supplies, or else get service and supplies through a click charge maintenance contract).

There’s still a fleet of ancient HP printers, including a workhorse 20-year-old LaserJet still printing 11x17 sheets.

Unpredictable behavior of a device is a risk to the business.

Whether you like it or not, brand perception goes across business units, lol.

> They are entirely different business models, run with different profit motives.

Why should that be taken into account?

> don’t let other bullshit that isn’t relevant to the business affect your decisions

Why not?

If you only consider one aspect of a complex issue and make your decisions around that one aspect only, you might be missing out on the bigger picture.

Take Trump's "Dumbest Trade War in History" as the WSJ calls it. Why are e.g. Canadians not buying US goods and why are they cancelling vacations in the US?

Is it because they have better vacation options in Canada? I do not think so.

They are doing it because they take the bigger picture into account. They do not care about temporary discomfort it might bring them. They know that they need to send a strong message to Trump. And they are doing it with their own wallets.