Oxygen discovered in most distant known galaxy
160 comments
·March 20, 2025gentle
dvt
I second this, and it tends to be a sitewide issue. HN has really changed over the past 5+ years: went from healthy or interesting skepticism to reddit-style snarkiness and shitposting.
jader201
From the guidelines [1]:
> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
(With that last sentence linking to 9 examples in [1].)
simonsarris
You don't think it's changed? You've been here about as long as we have. At some point you can't rely on it being a noob illusion if a place actually does change. The guideline is not a magic incantation that prevents it from never becoming false. Snarky replies used to be routinely downvoted swiftly, now they are not.
acdha
There’s always been some of that but it does feel like it’s getting worse. I think there’s a general shift in how people approach Skinner-ized apps and social media, where a couple of generations have been trained to prioritize a number going up, but also something about how politics became both post-factual and unavoidable even in communities which used to avoid it, all of which has driven a lot of former contributors away.
I’m not sure how to rebalance things - and certainly won’t claim to be perfect about not taking the bait myself – but it seems to be slowly starving a lot of communities which don’t have some in-person anchoring.
umeshunni
> Skinner-ized
What does this mean? A quick Google search didn't help me
mmooss
You might read the guidelines, much older than five years, about saying HN has changed, and also saying it's more like reddit.
lordnacho
I don't think I've ever been on a forum that doesn't have comments to that effect regularly.
"It was better a few years ago, it's all going to hell now, we're becoming Reddit/4Chan/Slashdot"
It's the internet forum version of "the youth has gotten lazy, it weren't like this when I were a lad"
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booleandilemma
This is refreshing to hear compared to all of the "HN is becoming Reddit, omg!" comments and threads that pop up every couple weeks.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=380385
From 2008 :)
mlekoszek
Unless, of course, it continually has been becoming Reddit, but Reddit has been constantly changing too ;)
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jcims
I'm probably guilty of making comments that read this way at times, but it's almost always out of curiosity and a dash of invoking Cunningham's law.
Lately I've started feeding my questions into LLMs to explore these ideas. Given that I will almost certainly never make a decision where an improper understanding of astrophysics is at fault, I'm willing to run the risk of hallucinations leading me to improper conclusions. :)
For the morbidly curious: https://chatgpt.com/share/67dc94a3-07c8-800c-bdbf-039dd2ce50...
(It's funny, I've seen people say that they generally don't even bother with spell checking questions to LLMs because it doesn't seem to make any difference. I was tempted to rerun this before posting to fix the disorganized thoughts in my questions, but I ain't got time for that.)
atonse
I love this chat. This is exactly the kind of chat I’ve had with ChatGPT about things like Native American reservations, their history, etc.
Stuff like this is what I love most about these LLMs.
As someone who minored in astronomy and especially loved stuff about stellar life cycles, I didn’t see any red flags in what you were told.
jcims
Nice! It's like having a patient neighbor that knows a lot about some topic but, you know, don't bet your life on it being accurate haha.
Thanks!!!
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atkailash
[dead]
gosub100
Science cannot be trusted anymore. Journals don't validate anything they submit. Departments are rewarded by how much money they wring out of the government, not by whether what they say is true. Next week they'll publish another paper about how they were wrong.
Also you don't sound "fascinated", so if you're complaining at least be honest about it. There are many more descriptive words than "fascinated".
ranger207
> Next week they'll publish another paper about how they were wrong.
Isn't that what's they're supposed to do? "Hey we found this thing, here's how we did it." Next week: "Yeah I checked your data and got different results, let's figure out what's different." A few months/years later: "We've figured out where the problems were and now have a better understanding of this."
awesome_dude
Yeah - people forget that the true advantage science has over other methodologies is that it accepts that what is believed today could be proved wrong tomorrow by new data.
There are no absolutes, we're just formulating theories to best fit what data we have now, and, if new conflicting data (or even existing data that was misunderstood/misread/misclassified as being irrelevant) disproves our theory we formulate a new one to try and account for the extra data.
lz400
I think this is a real problem but your post is an exaggeration. There are cases of fraud in science. There is a reproducibility crisis in some areas. There are political angles and rent seeking wrt grants. But how widespread is it? You're assuming it's close to 100% without evidence. I don't claim to have the exact number but intuitively yours is extraordinary (so it would need extraordinary evidence). I think these issues affect some areas much more than others and some regions more than others. I still believe science is the best way of enquiry for the natural world.
mmooss
> Science cannot be trusted anymore. Journals don't validate anything they submit. Departments are rewarded by how much money they wring out of the government, not by whether what they say is true. Next week they'll publish another paper about how they were wrong.
What do you feel when you post that?
gosub100
I feel like my tax dollars are wasted and the college students are being lied to with their ever-increasing tuition that somehow promises them a future when their departments are led by liars.
joquarky
Oxygen is everywhere.
Hydrogen is everywhere.
The possibilities are interesting.
NotAnOtter
Given how simple Water is and how readily available it's components are, it's inevitable there are many planets with vast oceans.
UI_at_80x24
At least 30% of the bodies in _our_ solar system have vast oceans.
You are right, it's inevitable.
alex_young
Water oceans? It’s far far from 30% isn’t it? Is there an image of a single water ocean not on Earth?
PaulHoule
It fits the theme that, according to Webb, the universe developed a lot more quickly in what we think were the first billion years... Most likely the "first billion years" were more like five billion years.
1970-01-01
There is growing evidence that doesn't fit the current model. It's funny how 'age is just a number' may be empirically true in a very existential sense.
yoavm
Sorry, but can you elaborate on that? In what sense are you thinking of?
deadbabe
In the sense that the point of “age” is supposed to indicate some kind of progress by which cohorts can be compared and classified into discrete groups.
But increasingly, there is no correlation between age and specific developmental stages. It is merely a number that indicates how long something has been around but not what its current status may be.
ttw44
This galaxy in particular must be one of the first galaxies ever formed. If galaxies are more mature than initially thought, what does this imply about our previous models and imply about what might actually be happening?
hnuser123456
There seems to be a large region of the universe, beyond furthest edges of the observable, but "in front of" the CMB, that is already outside of our past light cone due to expansion of the universe.
hnuser123456
To add, Earth is only ~4.5 billion years old, the universe is 13.7 and possibly double that, so earth is only 1/3 the age of the universe. It took a lot of big stars going supernova to pollute the galaxy with enough dirt to make rocky planets, and in all that meantime, everything has been flying apart, with a significant chunk of it already so far away and expanding away even faster, there is measurable difference between the observable universe and the "whole universe."
AtlasBarfed
I don't know if there was just a crap ton of blue hypergiant stars in the early universe that crank through the fusion ladder in a couple million years, it wouldn't surprise me.
hsnewman
I would be shocked if it were not found everywhere.
analog31
I'd be more worried if there was a whole bunch of carbon dioxide.
umeshunni
Funny you say that because this article just came out the other day
https://www.sciencealert.com/jwst-detects-carbon-dioxide-out...
fasteo
Off topic:
- Is the big bang theory the scientific consensus on the origin and evolution of the universe ?
- What are the alternatives ?
elashri
Big bang theory really a term describing the moment the universe started and not the evolution and how things evolved with time which have more questions than answer. The standard model of cosmology is the most accepted theory about universe. But you can't have knowledge about anything before the singularity. Actually we don't even know for sure what happens in the seconds after that because we need a much more powerful colliders than what we have now to produce the same conditions. But there are many theories about what could have happened.
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pixl97
Add to it we need much more reliable ways to detect super weak neutrinos. If we had that ability we could see into the first seconds of the universe whereas the universe was dark to light for hundreds of thousands of years.
moomin
I mean, there is at the very least a theory that at very small levels, the quantum effects take over and we’re actually looking at a cyclic bang/crunch model. It’s literally discussed in A Brief History of Time. But this is more of a refinement.
epistasis
Big Bang Theory is a bunch of really solid observations and hypotheses mixed with a bunch of open questions, even about the fundamental nature of forces.
It was only 30 years ago that we discovered what we call now dark energy. And it turns out that within that short time frame we have multiple ways of measuring the amount of it, and those methods agree. There is more dark energy than dark matter, and that the visible matter is even a small fraction of the dark matter. But even with this discovery of the acceleration of expansion of the universe, the core big bang theory holds.
There are many alternatives to the predominant and not-yet-accepted-as-true Lambda-Cold Dark Matter model of physics, such as Timescapes, but none of them have enough evidence behind them to be considered serious alternatives at the moment.
Things like the Baryonic Acoustic Oscillation theoretical predictions, that are visualized in the spacing of galaxies, are literally mind blowing to me. Theoretical physics predicted how matter would behave when it's so hot and dense that none of it can even form atoms, and it predicts the structure of all sorts of things, even the variability we observe in the cosmic microwave background.
TL;DR The depth and consistency of observation that point to a big bang are stunning. But we still have so much we don't know about the particulars, and the fundamental forces.
okayishdefaults
Consider the bbt as a collection of observations and models that are independently validated. As each of those components reach increasingly accurate representations of what we observe, the bbt improves.
In this way, there can be no alternative as there is no alternative to music theory. Some people may have a very narrow view of music theory, but it truly encompasses every model we accept about aspects of music.
Tldr- the questions can't be answered because the bbt is a not a theory like "THE theory of relativity". The "theory" is at the end of the term which denotes a collection and not a specific model.
thesz
Big Flash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSSDi22NVFo
As if matter existed and then there was a creation of light at some moment. Red shift is explained by interaction of light with gravitational field - the more distant source of light, the longer it travels under the influence of gravity and the more red it becomes.
thangalin
The first four explanations of illustrations in my book delve into your off-topic point and bring it back on-topic:
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shemtay
@dang the article does not seem to imply that molecular oxygen was found. maybe retitle to "Oxygen element" or "Atomic oxygen"?
interludead
Finding oxygen in a galaxy this young is pretty wild
lab14
Why?
Keyframe
probably because it depends on the star types that produce oxygen; it takes awhile until these stars form from previous in sequence. https://science.nasa.gov/universe/stars/types/#neutron-stars
ck2
Note the theory in this release is the oxygen is from a mature star releasing heavier elements, not plant life.
I thought oxygen detection was extremely difficult, they must have better methods now.
adding:
https://news.arizona.edu/news/how-next-gen-telescopes-could-...
hnuser123456
Oxygen detection on specific exoplanets is very difficult, unless the planet happens to pass between its star and Earth so we can see light passing through its atmosphere. Oxygen detection across an entire galaxy, not as hard.
pixl97
Oxygen detection in space isn't hard, the article in question seems to be an attempt at detecting oxygen on an exoplanet which is massively hard.
Now, conversely, oxygen detection in galaxies/around stars is difficult for another reason. It doesn't want to remain free oxygen and will gladly bind with any other atoms/molecules it runs into.
https://now.northropgrumman.com/what-happens-to-oxygen-in-sp...
fph
Technically, all oxygen is from stars. Plants merely recombine chemically already-existing oxygen.
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EGreg
How can they possibly be sure that it is oxygen doing that?
abrookewood
It is mind bending, but well understood (just not by me): we measure oxygen in distant galaxies using spectroscopy to identify specific emission lines in the galaxy's light, especially in the infrared spectrum.
vpribish
they are witches and read it in the tea leaves, i guess. i didn't read the article
antonkar
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mandelbrotwurst
What does “direct democratic” mean in this context please?
antonkar
Good question, I'll try to cram it but it's a whole book based on 3 years of modeling ultimate futures: imagine all the universes from the most dystopian to the most utopian. Ours is in the middle. If you want to go to an above average one - no problem, many will join you to "the party".
If you never helped no one and was in the most perfect utopia all the time and now want to go to a below average world (probably for nostalgic reason, it was the world of your childhood), others probably won't be so eager to join "the party". So you'll probably have to help someone else live in the below perfect world of their childhood first.
You see all world in a static fashion no problem or explore them with your powers but if you really want to forget it all and become a simple human in some a bit dystopian world, you'll need others to join you ("vote").
So people with multiversal powers (to recall and forget are the main ones) have 4D spacetime of each verse.
Easier to imagine 1 universe or 1 planet: the whole spacetime as a giant walkable long exposure photo but in 3d (when I say "4d" here, I mean it has many moments of time aligned on top of each other to make it look like a long exposure photo where you can focus on a moment or defocus and see billions of years all at once).
Multiversal people can basically change the shape of the multiverse and change the shape of themselves by forgetting parts of this giant geometric shape. If two or more people forgot the same parts, they "direct democratically voted" to be together there for some time, chose to visit the "same party".
Basically you're the 4D simulated multiverse and you can temporary choose to forget this fact to become some 3D slice of it that experiences the illusion of time (others can do it, too).
Almost infinitely many geometric shapes have almost infinite freedoms to change their geometric shapes instantly or slowly if they wish. To temporarily slice/forget parts of the multiverse. Anyone can choose to permanently die, too, but cannot kill their baby version, they are like eternal time loops.
hooo
> Good question, I'll try to cram it but it's a whole book based on 3 years of modeling ultimate futures: imagine all the universes from the most dystopian to the most utopian. Ours is in the middle. If you want to go to an above average one - no problem, many will join you to "the party".
Is there a literal book about this? Can you point us to it?
Geee
Each universe has one vote, and they vote on whether to keep the computer running or not. We haven't figured out how to vote yet.
antonkar
I answered above)
cozyman
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aithrowawaycomm
Tech's general atheism has left many tech people with a somewhat compromised ideological immune system: preposterous magical thinking is laundered with sci-fi language and accepted as plausible. (cf. the simulation "hypothesis", Roko's basilisk, paperclip maximizers, etc)
Why not stipulate that the Flying Spaghetti Monster oversees the elections like an FEC commissioner? It is equally rational: the only difference is that it doesn't jive with sci-fi aesthetics, just like how Pastafarianism doesn't jive with Catholic aesthetics.
ziddoap
How/why does this result increase that specific probability?
antonkar
If there were intelligent aliens billions of years ago who didn't destroy themselves, they probably build some simulations like we in a way already did with Google Earth, GTA, Minecraft, etc. The most likely is to have more and more simulations, until they'll have all the interesting ones (a simulated multiverse). They can even have a Dyson Sphere or Penrose sphere to capture the energy from a star or black hole
ziddoap
I'm familiar with the theory of simulated universes, though I appreciate the explanation, I am just having trouble connecting why an oxygen discovery in a distant galaxy would increase the probability of the theory.
I'm always fascinated by the posters here who insist on second-guessing the writers and the scientists who spend their whole lives studying a topic like this.
No one needs to read your post fessing up to your profound ignorance and the fact that you didn't really read the link.