US deports Venezuelans despite court order
42 comments
·March 16, 2025apical_dendrite
readthenotes1
That's the law. Perhaps we shouldn't give the president, or any one person, that much authority?
(When was the last declared war in the USA??)
apical_dendrite
The law is pretty clearly about a literal invasion or military incursion, not a metaphorical "invasion". If the Alien Enemies Act was designed for transnational crime, then it would not be an emergency law - it could be invoked at any time for a whole host of countries.
unsnap_biceps
The law doesn't allow deporting to a different country to jail them, which is happening here. I'd be much less concerned if they were going back to Venezuela, however, they're going to a special prison in El Salvador that we pay for, but isn't under our legal system.
I would also say that I was, am still are, totally against Gitmo, as that was illegal as well, but less illegal, as we ran the facility.
duxup
Law doesn’t matter with this administration.
SCOTUS decided the president was exempt from the law and the consequences are obvious…
toggaf
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DLA
That is NOT what the SCOTUS decision said at all. This is a hysterical comment that’s not cool on HN.
Here’s the ruling which talks about what Presidential actions carry executive immunity and when they do not (Syllabus (2), when authority is shared by Congress). https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf
duxup
They have expanded it to the point the point of the lines they drew are meaningless.
sarcasmatwork
Do you remember when Joe defied the supreme court for student loans?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/2932356/...
unsnap_biceps
He didn't ignore it, he tried to achieve the same outcome via a different method. That's very different then just ignoring the order entirely.
null
duxup
For some reason I'm a lot less worried about that.
ckemere
An interesting question is if/when there will be big protests. Ignoring a judge is a breach of constitutional order, and if people don’t speak up for Venezuelan “gang members”, it becomes normalized, and quickly can escalate. I think we’ve all been waiting to see how long it would take to get here (if ever). Now what next???
aaronrobinson
Protests are invasions
gooseus
There won't be a big protest over this because there is already too much fragmentation of protests and only so much organization and time, and also people are cowards.
In the last two weeks I've been to 3 protests in the NYC area:
- Stand with Ukraine
- Stand for Science
- Tesla Takedown
In the same time there have been protest for Khalil and a protest against the entitlement cuts, as well as protests in support of Veterans.
However, this (wrongful and illegal arrest/detention/deportation) _should_ be the biggest protest, because if Trump backed off all of the other things and was able to get away with normalizing this use of DoJ and federal law enforcement to disappear people into the legal system, then nobody will protest anything out of legitimate fear of being disappeared.
My observation of most Americans protesting is that they are doing it for the social/emotional aspects and aren't doing it with the intent of putting themselves in any real risk... and I think what you'll see is that when things get REALLY serious, those people will say things like "I was out there from 2017 - 2024 and protests didn't do anything, I'm not going to risk my career/family/well-being/life anymore for nothing".
kcplate
> There won't be a big protest over this because there is already too much fragmentation of protests and only so much organization and time, and also people are cowards.
There won’t be a protest over this because the optics are bad. Democrats already learned their lesson that defending violent gang members doesn’t work in their favor because of the whole MS-13/“Animals” stuff back in 2019. There is simply no way to oppose this without looking sympathetic to murderous thugs.
j_maffe
I don't think protests will matter. Only if republican voters take issue then maybe some congressmen could take a stand. Currently the more reasonable hope is that the judicial branch escalates this to the supreme court.
nadermx
This poses an interesting legal question. Since the judge ruled once the plane was in international airspace, would the US have jurisdiction? Or would say mercantile laws or airspace laws apply making it a weird legal hack to deport these "gang members"?
anon84873628
The judge specifically said that he did not have jurisdiction over deportees who had already landed on foreign soil, but could order planes in the air to return.
xyst
A Gaddafi-esque exit at the WH or that gaudy resort he loves playing golf at so much.
toggaf
[dead]
barbazoo
People are too economically enslaved to mass protest.
Aloisius
You say that like historical general strikers were more economically independent than today.
duxup
People do protest…
j_maffe
Could people do a strike that would cripple key industries or cause massive disruption to the government?
barbazoo
Not in a way that convinces the ruling class to change their ways.
wahnfrieden
For a day or so
tmpz22
American judicial jurisprudence is paramount to American business interests and informed discourse is vital to anyone wishing to conduct a successful enterprise.
That this is flagged is concerning... as it amounts to saying court decisions, compliance, and enforcement, are irrelevant to this forum. As we saw on the thread yesterday by a YC immigration lawyer there is a real immediate impact to his community and it should be discussed not banned.
xnx
Also "Doctor and Professor Is Deported to Lebanon Despite a Judge’s Order" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/us/brown-university-rasha...
jauntywundrkind
I loved this "Five Questions About Trump's Alien Enemy Act Proclamation", which runs through a lot of the legal questions at stake (based on existing case law).
(Whether or not this is a legal government is not covered.)
https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/132-five-questions-about-trum...
DesiLurker
we are going to find how just how many things in current system run on honor basis. this administration will try to push past all limits.
problem is it will be a race to bottom going forwards.
Freedom2
It's curious that a lot of Venezuelans campaigned for Trump and this is the outcome at the end. I doubt anyone could have seen this coming, for sure.
hagbard_c
Do you think Venezuelans who campaigned for Trump/the Republicans want members of a violent prison gang to remain in the country they call their new home, given their nationality and with that themselves a bad name?
They'll be pleased to see Trump make good on his promises just like most people are pleased to see illegal gang bangers removed from the country.
Crazy-Pills-305
If these two hundred and something folks were guilty of being part of a transnational crime organization I'll be happy to see them pay their time, but so far I only know their crime was to be brown and Latino in the wrong place at the wrong time.
What's been discussed here is the need for due process and how this makes anyone vulnerable, because now by default everyone can be guilty without recourse.
Tomorrow someone might say you're part of "antifa" and whatever that word means and boom, your rights are vulnerable and your integrity at risk.
archagon
Until their innocent kid with tattoos gets kidnapped to El Salvador or Guantanamo.
bingaweek
Do citizen Venezuelans want gang members here just because they share the same homeland?
I encourage you to read the government's appeal to the DC Circuit Court. It is terrifying. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69742127/01208720432/jg...
The government is saying that it can declare that transnational crime is an "invasion" under the Alien Enemies Act, and that the courts cannot review this decision. Therefore, they can arrest, deport, or transfer to a prison in a third country, any non-citizen and the courts have no power to intervene or review the decision.
Transnational crime will always exist, and it is present in many countries. So if you're a citizen of Italy and a lawful permanent resident of the US, they can arrest you, accuse you of being in the mafia, and send you to a prison in El Salvador, and you will have no legal recourse. I don't even think they would need that fig leaf since the courts would have no power to review their actions.