US Tech Force
184 comments
·December 15, 2025jotux
neilv
> Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.
Also, many people took pride in the service they provided to their country (or to the people, or as part of a team that did good, however they thought of it).
I don't have high hopes for this new thing.
After recent treatment of federal employees, and other things going on in the US this year, including how USDS as DOGE was weaponized against the US... I'd expect this new thing to only be able to recruit from these categories:
1. Outright bad people, with anti-US, looter/saboteur intent, as we've seen from other facets recently. They will focus on their own bad-person individual interests.
2. People who aren't bad, but who are so cognitively impaired, that they still don't realize that they're probably going to get screwed personally and/or directed to be the baddies. They will be bad at everything they do.
3. People who are intelligent and pro-US, and have no illusions about what they're signing up for, but who desperately need the income, after being screwed earlier this year. They won't be inspired to execute well on whatever anti-US directives they're given.
jotux
Before all of this happened the hiring I had to deal with when I was federal fell into similar buckets:
1. Completely inept or lazy people that couldn't get a job anywhere else (~50%)
2. Smart people that took the job because it was close to their family (~30%)
3. Smart people that took the job because they liked the the specific mission and felt like it was really important (~10%)
4. Smart people that took the job after retiring from a private industry job as a sort of laid-back post-retirement hobby (we called them re-treads, ~10%)
From what I've heard, a lot of federal employers can only hire from the #1 category now, and the applicants in that category have gotten worse.
mgrat
There's just no path to home ownership in the DC area for the fed career path after the ZIRP era. A capable person would have to be insane or desperate given the economics alone.
dabockster
4. People who are intelligent and Republican, have no illusions about what they're signing up for, and are fully committed to following the orders of President Trump and his cabinet without questioning ethics or legalities.
selectodude
Those people were covered in 1. Outright bad people.
ethbr1
This feels like it needs a MAGA vs Republican distinction. There are plenty of Republicans who (privately) have issues with some things Trump is doing.
SunshineTheCat
You should try having a casual chat sometime with people who voted for and/or like Trump. You'll quickly discover how wrong this statement is.
It's always easy to spot a person who has enclosed themselves in a political or ideological bubble. They're typically first to apply a label to a large group of people and then assume all the people with that label are the exact same.
This has never been true for any group of people and as it turns out, it's the same for people you disagree with politically.
ivanech
I believe the new grad DOGE employees were GS-15s. So yes, it seems likely that they plan to hire at GS-14 or GS-15.
ethbr1
Nothing like putting in a multi decade civil service career and coming in one day to find a 20-something installed over you whose primary qualification was being hired at a "friendly" tech company and making the right kind of joke around the CEO.
... although that seems depressingly like it would also be the experience with new administrators being installed in executive agencies every 4 years, except they're slightly older.
Man, if only there were some way to retain talent in the face of political leadership transitions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform...
lumost
At least in 2010, it was common for new grads to get GS-14/GS-15 pay for in-demand tech skills. It's a bit odd that early career folks would start out at the max of the pay band, but it is what it is. These were for roles which required a clearance.
Jtsummers
Not for people with just a BS, at least outside certain areas (DC) and roles (cybersecurity). GS-12 was a more typical "target" position (with GS-13 on occasion, like at some of the labs) back in 2010. A masters or a PhD could have bumped you up to GS-13/14/15 though.
Target: People typically enter, when coming out of college, at a lower grade in the GS-5/7/9 area with a target position of one of GS-11/12/13. IT (not CS) folks were often in GS-11 targeted positions, computer scientists and engineers often in GS-12 positions. They'd get promoted in two grade increases (5 to 7, 7 to 9, 9 to 11) or one grade increases (11 to 12, 12 to 13) until they hit their target grade. At a rate of either one increase per year or per 6 months depending on when they got hired, by what agency, and in what role. An IT person, usually one increase per year; engineer, typically two increases per year. Computer scientists usually got screwed and got one increase per year which meant you had fewer of them wanting to work for the government (they also, at that time, rarely got signing bonuses). This leaves a lot of the software shops in DOD (where I had experience) mostly filled with aerospace and electrical engineers.
"Cyber" roles (security; which could be a couple different job series) in some agencies jumped up faster or had a higher target grade due to the need (or perceived need) for more people.
alephnerd
> Not for people with just a BS, at least outside certain areas (DC) and roles (cybersecurity)
Based on the FAQ, US Tech Force roles are located in DC (so they'll get the DC adjustment) and from the sounds of it, this proposal is the AI Washing the "Cyber Service" or "Cyber Exempted Service".
Also, based on Scott Kupor's (former Managing Parter at A16Z turned head of OPM) memo [0] it appears they seem to be using the same approach used to start the USDS back in the Obama admin. And based on their mention of "fellows", I think they'll merging parts of what used to be the Presidential Management Fellows program.
If AI-washing and Trump-washing helps maintain the core of these programs, there's nothing wrong with that.
Edit:
Dug deeper thru the FAQ - it's basically an AI washed version of the PMF and PIF.
[0] - https://www.opm.gov/chcoc/latest-memos/building-the-ai-workf...
voidfunc
If I was late-career with a good solid financial foundation im place and just looking to work to cover living expenses the Federal Gov as fucked as it may be doesn't seem like a bad gig. Since the bar is so incredibly fucking low you just mail it in and collect the money and when youre furloughed you play golf or do extra hobbies. The ball just needs to keep moving, it doesn't actually need to move quickly. Heck it doesn't even need to necessarily move forward.
lowkey_
(1) Are you saying it's bad if they're upping engineer pay to be more competitive, or you're just skeptical that they will?
(2) I'd actually like the American government to pay better wages for its engineers, and optimize for hiring the best, rather than those desiring a stable, low-paying bureaucracy — I don't think that attracts the best people.
(3) On talent and recruiting: This is being done by the National Design Studio, it says at the bottom. That's led by a cofounder of Airbnb - I know one person who works at the National Design Studio and he's a phenomenal engineer. The administration also has the involvement of David Sacks, who founded Craft Ventures and is pretty well-known in SV. I think this is probably the most tech-competent the government will have been in a long time. I'm not crediting Trump at all for that, to be clear - just pointing out that tech talent in government seems to be getting better, not worse.
pavel_lishin
I'd wager that the "approximate" in that sentence is going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting.
null
testing22321
> Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards
Paid time off???
Health insurance???
Retirement plans????
OMG this is incredible! What an offer!
/s
kulahan
A gov-backed retirement plan actually is nice. You don’t have to worry about losing your Chrysler pension because they went out of business.
alephnerd
No 401k can ever match the beauty that is the TSP.
mNovak
I know it's annoying now to nitpick over what's AI generated, but I'm noticing their robot mascot has two different incorrect American flags on its sweater..
munificent
It's the perfect metaphor for a Trump-era group whose aim is to jam poorly-thought-out AI in to random bits of the government.
exasperaited
Like this administration cares about little things like how many states there are. L'état, c'est Trump.
ulrashida
Figures this comes from the National Design Studio (https://ndstudio.gov/) which ironically also ignores the government's own advice on web standards and correct use of identifying headers.
One can assume the US Tech Force will perceive itself as also unfettered by those silly rules and good practices.
H1Supreme
I know it's par for the course these days, but that's a lot of Js and CSS for a single page app with some text, a few images, and a list of collapsible info sections (whose animations aren't very smooth).
cvoss
My actual first thought was "Is this a hoax?" precisely because the website did not identify itself as a US government website in the usual way for executive branch sites.
torginus
Do those standards mandate a correctly rendered US flag?
mxfh
New memo is one star, but compensate with 5 squares for what could be a simple rectangle. That logo's SVG is weird.
torginus
I didn't mean the logo (honestly didn't even notice). I was talking about the robot guy's t-shirt - it does have 13 stripes, but the number and layout of stars look rather play-it-by-ear.
null
amarcheschi
Click on America by design initiative
"What's the biggest brand in the world? If you said Trump, you're not wrong. But what's the foundation of that brand? One that's more globally recognized than practically anything else.
...
This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon"
Jesus christ, man
kstrauser
I about spit my coffee when I saw that. Good grief.
> We've been conditioned to accept that mediocre in government is normal.
Yes, I do now accept that mediocre [sic] in government is normal for the next few years.
ChrisArchitect
Why is all of ND Studio's work so severely AI/'tech/crypto bro'/SF-billboard-vibe coded?
Barrin92
That's what an oligarchy looks like, 'careers' consist of trying to glaze whatever moneyed person in power you can in hopes of getting a contract
bestoutoftwo
[dead]
alexpotato
Is this just US Digital Service V2?
bigthymer
Ever since USDS got renamed as DOGE, they've had trouble recruiting people. I suspect this move is maybe an effort to shed DOGE's negative image.
viccis
Yeah my first thought was that this already existed, was doing great work, and got canned by DOGE in favor of what appears to be a MUCH MUCH more expensive version of it here.
nxobject
And with Trump-aligned people running it, of course, not like the purged USDS. One of the perks is "networking" after all.
nobodyandproud
You beat me to it. Minus the good will and civic mindedness that v1 had going for it of course.
munificent
No, USDS was about modernizing the government's tech systems in general.
This one is about jamming AI into shit:
> Tech Force will be an elite group of ~1,000 technology specialists hired by agencies to accelerate artificial intelligence (AI) implementation and solve the federal government's most critical technological challenges.
pavel_lishin
> Are there any other benefits?
> Additional benefits include professional development opportunities, networking with government and industry leaders, and a pathway to continued public service or private sector careers.
Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"
edit: not sure if they just added it, or if I just missed it, but there is an FAQ entry on compensation:
> Compensation varies based on experience level and agency placement. Annual salaries are expected to be in the approximate range of $150,000 to $200,000. Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards.
afavour
Yeah, given the primary benefit of government jobs like this is usually the stability, pension etc when you’re offering absolutely none of that you really need to look down the back of the couch for some benefits.
placatedmayhem
For me as someone that would potentially be interested in and qualified for one of these roles, the DOGE actions earlier this year and ongoing firing of nonpartisan & non-appointed that don't tow the current ruling party line ruined the stability benefit. I think it also casts doubt on the pension aspect, but I know less about what's required to get pension in US fed positions.
phantasmish
I was super-interested in this years ago. My interest vanished when I encountered the “tour of duty” concept. I don’t make FAANG money so the pay was roughly a lateral move for me if it’d included retirement, but having it be time-bound rather than career-oriented was a huge turnoff. Was ready to make that my whole deal, potentially for the rest of my life.
The US going politically totally batshit crazy shortly after ended up making it for the best that I did’t join, but still, it struck me as weird that they had to set it up with that extra sting of “we have to make sure this is a sacrifice”.
boredatoms
Is it stability when funding bills dont pass?
bee_rider
I think the stability is the traditional perk of government work (in exchange for a smaller salary). The funding trouble does make it seem like less of a fair trade…
UncleOxidant
> "you'll get lots of exposure!"
"Backed by the White House"
I don't think this is the kind of exposure most people are going to want, nor will they want this on their resume.
sybercecurity
>Given the lack of mention of any benefits prior to this, it sure sounds like "you'll get lots of exposure!"
Well, they are also "partnering" with some private sector companies. I guess the idea is that candidates will put in their 2 years, then take their contact list and join federal sales arm of one of the private companies.
justin66
What companies are participating in Tech Force?
The initial roster of private sector partners includes Adobe, Amazon Web Services, AMD, Anduril, Apple, Box, C3.ai, Coinbase, Databricks, Dell Technologies, Docusign, Google Public Sector, IBM, Meta, Microsoft, Nvidia, OpenAI, Oracle, Palantir, Salesforce, SAP, ServiceNow, Snowflake, Robinhood, Uber, Workday, xAI, and Zoom. This list will expand over time.
Are there any companies on that list who haven't made gross public displays of servitude towards the current administration?
isk517
Every one of them will also be tripping over each other to try and push their software as the solution to any and every problem. I'd wager a hefty sum that at the end of the day every US government department is going to have it's own unique software stack that will be ill-suited for their needs, incompatible with what adjacent departments use, and offer no robustness in the event of an emergency.
soared
This makes feel a bit queasy for some reason https://americabydesign.gov/
wmeredith
I find it deliciously fitting that the UX on this website kinda sucks.
neogodless
> This is President Trump going bigger than President Nixon.
You don't say...
netfortius
This will work perfectly with the approach used by candidates: https://www.interviewquery.com/p/tech-workers-gaming-ai-hiri...
jihadjihad
> Backed by the White House
Somehow it hits differently than the similar phrase, "backed by the full faith and credit of the US Govt."
xg15
Because in this administration, I guess it is different.
The "US Government" are the people and agencies that DOGE tried to get rid of and that were taken out of their jobs or unable to provide any services due to the shutdown.
Whereas "The White House" is Trump and his buddies.
Welcome to the autocracy...
bestoutoftwo
[dead]
null
aprct
It’s amusing that this initiative from “America by Design” uses the Neue Montreal typeface.
bdbdbdb
If you're looking for a semantic argument, Montreal is in America
afavour
> Tech Force will primarily recruit early-career technologists
> Tech Force will include centralized organization and programming and serve as a recruiting platform post-employment.
Be prepared to struggle at the end of your two year placement because you have no idea how this is going to look on your resume two years from now. Maybe it’ll have the gravitas of having worked at the former USDS. But maybe it’ll be the black mark of having worked at DOGE. The latter feels much more likely than the former.
You will have no control over this outcome. If I had to bet I’d say they will take advantage of your junior status to get you to do the kind of wildly irresponsible hacking, slashing and AI injecting that a more senior engineer would object to and you’re going to face some tough questions in subsequent job interviews.
redbluered
Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed. I wouldn't want a spiteful employer.
The flip side is that a lot of government jobs lead to pretty good private sector opportunities working with those same agencies. If you want to contact to DOE, knowing how it works in the inside and knowing people there definitely helps.
A lot of military contractors are former military. Who better to design something for a soldier than a soldier?
ActorNightly
Yes and no.
I have hired people to work under me. Generally, if someone can pass the interview and do the job, I don't care that much about your views unless you are very outwardly with them. The only time I had to filter out a candidate was due to a quick check of his public social media where he was "enthusiastically" pro Palestine with questionable posts.
That being said, having interviewed plenty of ex government or government adjacent people, not a single one can pass even a mediocre interview problem. Most people who work for the government show up expecting to be told what to do, then do it - very few can independently think for themselves.
For example, my interview problems are designed to be solved most efficiently with implementing parallelization, but they sound like regular interview problems, so even with LLMs a lot of candidates usually can't solve it unless they give the LLM specific instructions to implement threads, which requires understanding of the problem.
redbluered
> The only time I had to filter out a candidate was due to a quick check of his public social media where he was "enthusiastically" pro Palestine with questionable posts.
Sounds like a place I wouldn't want to work (and filtering for the reverse stance would be equally problematic).
Do you think things will work better if we have pro-Israel and pro-Palestine companies with the two groups never talking?
dabockster
> Most people who work for the government show up expecting to be told what to do, then do it - very few can independently think for themselves.
I see this a lot in the private sector too here in Seattle. It's hurting us badly.
reaperducer
Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed.
It's not always that black and white. In spite of appearances, many many companies make hiring decisions based on things other than what's in a resume.
For example, a company may have $mm contracts with another company whose owners/operators/shareholders/etc. favor one particular view, political party, or social construct. That company will most certainly look down upon the other company hiring people of a particular background.
Or the pressure could be internal. A couple of times in my life I've worked for companies where certain departments were unionized. Even if you weren't in one of those departments, if the company hired you and you had a particular background, the union would object.
The real world is very complex.
afavour
> Employers would have to be pretty spiteful to look at it the way you purposed
I disagree. If a persons resume contains description of blatantly harmful work how else can I interpret it but negatively? At best you’d have to chalk it up to “just following orders” but I don’t want blind obedience in a prospective employee either.
The destruction caused by DOGE is evident to anyone with eyes, as is the agency’s complete lack of achievement. I would absolutely be asking questions about why someone remained there.
commandlinefan
"Why is government so inefficient?"
"I would never hire anybody who worked for the government during an administration I didn't vote for!"
quantified
These employees will be hired by the companies they helped integrate. Not a single one will look on them poorly. They will have domain knowledge, turf knowledge, and they won't argue about working with MAGA for money.
SirMaster
You seem to be assuming that someone who remained working for DOGE would even want to work for a company who would pass them over for having worked for DOGE.
null
alaxhn
I think you are right that you could face some challenges during the screening process but if you get to the interview this should be easy to explain with a face saving excuse.
"The tech industry was doing poorly and I was faced with a layoff so I took whatever job I could get. While I didn't agree with the actions of the administration I felt like I could be a force for good in an otherwise turbulent environment"
As we all know Nazi scientists went on to work for and lead parts of Nasa. The reputation hit of disreputable employers is dramatically overblown.
To be honest you can also get through issues with the resume screening process you can generally just change the wording and section headers a bit in order to avoid a quick filter out.
I'm pretty much a closet conservative working for big tech so I've had a lot of practice with this sort of stuff :D
redserk
I'd wager "scientist with a deep background in research of rocket propolsion technology in the 1950s" was a bit more difficult to come by than "early-career software developer who integrated a bunch of APIs and maybe wrote a frontend in React".
ActorNightly
>As we all know Nazi scientists went on to work for and lead parts of Nasa.
The difference is, those scientists were literally the best of the best in the world when it came to rocketry.
All their assistants did not share the same fate.
But generally, unless something drastic happens politically, companies won't care that much.
null
quantified
Coinbase will probably look quite favorably that you have been on the inside of whatever their piece is.
>What is the expected compensation for participants? Compensation varies based on experience level and agency placement. Annual salaries are expected to be in the approximate range of $150,000 to $200,000. Benefits include health insurance, retirement plans, paid time off, and eligibility for performance-based awards.
>Tech Force will primarily recruit early-career technologists
So "early-career" but they're going to get paid GS-14/15 pay[1] in DC? New grad engineers in DC are going to be GS-7/9 at best. This is either a blatant lie, or created by someone who has no idea of how federal pay works (or both).
As an aside, I was a fed for >10 years and left last year for industry but stay in touch with friends still working federal jobs. Before this administration recruiting was extremely difficult and candidate quality was low. I've heard that it's nearly impossible now and in the last 18 months they've only been able to hire a single person. Federal jobs used to be considered stable, with good benefits, but low pay. Now they're unstable, the current administration is actively working to make benefits worse, and the pay is still really low.
[1] https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...