US TikTok investors in limbo as deal set to be delayed again
139 comments
·December 12, 2025vdupras
renegade-otter
Russia and China have been pretty successful at making these fools look like what they are - gullible suckers.
dashundchen
My theory is the Trump Mafia doesn't care if people think they are idiots.
This admin is so transparently corrupt, and they're making out like bandits.
Trump and his family have made billions of dollars on the crypto rug pull. Everyone knew it was a shitcoin from the start.
Trump has pardoned violent criminals and felony fraudsters for business deals and "donations".
His family's net worth has estimated to have risen billions this year alone.
Elon Musk essentially bought his way into the control of the government and tried to buy off votes.
Kristi Noem funneled at least one sole source contract worth $220 million dollars to a firm closely tied to her and her previous political campaigns.
Ron DeSantis spent $250 million dollars of no-bid contracts for essentially a tent interment camp, many of questionable value and to politically tied companies
They don't care if you don't like them and I don't think they care if they accomplish what they ran on. They have done a bang up job enriching themselves and their donor class, however.
netsharc
It should worry us that they're not worried about what happens when they're no longer in power and the naked corruption gets looked at. They're not worried because their plan is to stay in power...
Losing voter confidence in droves? Not a problem if you're confident about establishing the next 1000 year reich.
dangus
I think the truth is TikTok/ByteDance have all the leverage. A ban of the app is political suicide for whatever administration implements it.
michaelt
If there's one thing I've taken away from Trump's successes, it's that there's no such thing as "political suicide".
A massive tax hike on imported goods, making loads of things more expensive? Political suicide! Constant flip-flopping and backtracking on deals? Political suicide! Doing mocking impersonations of disabled people? Political suicide! Accepting donations from neo-nazi groups? Political suicide! Cheating on your pregnant wife with a porn star? Political suicide! Repeatedly visiting a billionaire pedophile's private island? Political suicide!
Except it turns out actually none of that is political suicide.
MangoToupe
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vdupras
Hey, it did become bigger news. Good. It's the first time I see this on HN. An old 2 days thread being "bumped" by changing the timestamp?
donebefore
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tehjoker
It is true and documented that the reason TikTok was challenged and censored was because it was exposing too many people to Israeli crimes in the genocide in Gaza. This was stated by high level officials. Of course, it also provides grist for accusing China of interfering in American politics, but of course, doing so would be a voice of morality, and you can't have that.
https://forward.com/culture/688840/tiktok-ban-gaza-palestine...
Edit: As a Jew, I also want to note that there is at least one dead comment mixing this with actual antisemitism, which has been apparently increasingly promoted by the right-wing media. My presumption is this is an attempt to create an actual anti-semitism crisis Israel can point to in order to shut down criticism from the left.
derektank
No, it’s not true. The bill which banned TikTok (H.R. 7521 Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act)[1] was introduced by Mike Gallagher and Raja Krishnamoorthi in 2024, but a near identical bill, the ANTI-SOCIAL CCP Act (H.R.1081)[2] was introduced by those same lawmakers in February of 2023, long before the Gaza War began, though it did not make it out of committee at that time. It’s conceivable that the bill’s passage was prioritized by house leadership due to concerns about content on TikTok, but the text of the bill contains no reference to the Israel-Palestine conflict and its very obvious from public statements by both co-sponsors that the primary motivation for this bill was concern with Chinese influence.
[1] https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20240311/HR%207521%20Up...
[2] https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr1081/BILLS-118hr1081ih....
user982
The bill had no traction, "until Oct. 7. The attack that day in Israel by Hamas and the ensuing conflict in Gaza became a turning point in the push against TikTok, Helberg said. People who historically hadn’t taken a position on TikTok became concerned with how Israel was portrayed in the videos and what they saw as an increase in antisemitic content posted to the app."
"How TikTok Was Blindsided by U.S. Bill That Could Ban It" (https://www.wsj.com/tech/how-tiktok-was-blindsided-by-a-u-s-...)
> its very obvious from public statements by both co-sponsors that the primary motivation for this bill was concern with Chinese influence.
Here's an op-ed authored by bill sponsor Mike Gallagher entitled, "Why Do Young Americans Support Hamas? Look at TikTok.": https://www.thefp.com/p/tik-tok-young-americans-hamas-mike-g...
doctorpangloss
Around the time the second bill was passed, banning TikTok was polling at 50%. Why make this complicated? Banning TikTok is popular. People don’t like it because it’s brain rot. Many vice bans poll highly.
throw310822
Completely disagree. Look around, mass protests start and governments fall when banning social media. There are 80 million daily active users of TikTok in the US, Trump would never, ever be so stupid as to piss off 80 million people by suddenly blocking their favourite app. That's the whole reason of this standoff.
Seattle3503
Both can be true, no? TikTok can be a tool that China uses to aid its geopolitical goals. TikTok has lots of criticism of Israel. Both can be true.
throw310822
TikTok is a social media the US don't control. TikTok has content the US don't want the American public to see. It's the same problem.
Seattle3503
Would we be having this conversation if TikTok was EU based?
MengerSponge
Remember how the USSR used Jim Crow to criticize America and degrade the US's international standing? That Soviet messaging was clearly self-serving, but it doesn't make America's behavior that creating the opening any less reprehensible.
Same deal here.
ToucanLoucan
And it's not like there aren't dozens of equally brain-rot apps made my US and EU based companies that people would love to see banned. The only one, out of SHEER COINCIDENCE I'M SUUUURE, actually on the chopping block is the one that promotes a lot of pro-Gaza content.
Like I'm sorry, there is just no debate to be had here. Israel is committing a genocide, confirmed by the UN, recognized by anyone who looks at what's going on there with an even remotely objective eye, and the only social platform on which that message is getting out is facing legal scrutiny in the entire West is TikTok. This doesn't even require a conspiracy board, it's literally three red strings between TikTok, Israel, and the US. Despite worldwide propaganda efforts on the part of every corporate media in existence all screaming that the genocide isn't a genocide, a full 25% of people according to a poll I saw are fully convinced the genocide Israel is committing is in fact a genocide.
This would be fucking pathetic if not for the fact that every organized world entity involved in this utter sham was so incredibly powerful and their influence wasn't borderline inescapable.
tehjoker
Should American owned or controlled companies be banned in other countries? Should Israel be banned from interfering in American politics? If yes, then I am more open to this concept.
For what it's worth, I am not aware of any evidence that TikTok did anything intentional to promote anti-US narratives. To be honest, I think they accomplished that goal by simply promoting what people wanted to see, which is in large part, simply the truth. The so-called enemies of America do not have to work very hard or lie, they just need to expose our propaganda in a very straightforward fashion.
Since the COVID crisis at least, US owned social media companies have become very censorious and we know they tamper with the algorithms. It may be that simply having a less biased algorithm is too clarifying for American elites.
glenstein
>Should American owned or controlled companies be banned in other countries?
I don't understand why that's your response to a question about them both being true. It seems like a perfectly legitimate observation: China can and probably is leveraging social media to shape global discussion of political topics that they deem sensitive. And it's also the case that at least for some voting block of conservative Republicans in the US Senate, it's an opportunity to potentially shut down communication on Israel's actions in Gaza. It's a classic both can be true situation.
I actually think you're right that Tiktok isn't necessarily intentionally promoting Gaza but that it has organically emerged simply because it legitimately is an issue that is an issue that has provoked moral outrage of the western world. To the extent that China is shaping anything, I think it's more about suppressing disapproved narratives than amplifying approved ones, as well as surveillance of Western opinion that can be channeled into soft power infrastructure outside the bounds of the internet.
ronnier
Try using American social media and offerings in China, and lately, Russia.
loeg
China already bans American media companies from operating in China.
Seattle3503
> Should American owned or controlled companies be banned in other countries? Should Israel be banned from interfering in American politics? If yes, then I am more open to this concept.
I think there are important differences between China any democracy. In China, each company needs a internal party cell or party commitee to police and control that companies actions. If you don't find differences between China and open democracies compelling, we won't find much common ground.
Nonetheless, we are seeing US tech companies facing scrutiny in Europe.
Something else I'll say is I think some of the big tech companies should be broken up, which I see achieving similar goals by similar means. Reduce centralized control by a change in ownership. If China were a corporation instead of a country, old likewise advocating divesting control of TikTok
XorNot
> Should American owned or controlled companies be banned in other countries?
This is hardly the "gotcha" you're framing it as. Building sovereign capability has shot to the top of a lot nations priority lists.
In a lot of industries this is also just standard even amongst allies: national security related contracts have extensive clauses about ownership, structure and access.
strangattractor
It was bad until General Bone Spur found a way to profit from it. Now it's ok. As usual the deal was just some verbal agreement that was not binding in anyway. How many times will people keep falling for this?
Dig1t
Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, outright said that it was important for this deal to go through and that is part of the "eighth front" in their war.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gPKw3cM3DUI
Larry Ellison is a vocal Zionist, leaked emails show that he vetted Marco Rubio for "fealty to Israel". In one email he outright said "Great meeting with Marco Rubio. I set him up to meet with Tony Blair. Marco will be a great friend for Israel".
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/larry-ellison-vetted-marco-ru...
This is the man who would be given control of Tik Tok and its algorithm.
zappb
As a Jew, when’s the last time you kept Shabbat?
ImPostingOnHN
as a jew, I ask, why do you care about somebody else's religious life, and how does that tie into the discussion?
babypuncher
It's been clear to me since the very beginning of this TikTok drama, even before the war in Gaza, that it was never about TikTok being naughty; it is about TikTok not being owned by the wealthiest people in America. These people have no problem with Facebook, Instagram, et al. being naughty because they profit from it.
That's why the every proposed TikTok ban is so specific to TikTok, and never does anything to actually regulate the naughty things TikTok does, because that would mean hurting American social media companies.
throw310822
> These people have no problem with Facebook, Instagram, et al. being naughty because they profit from it.
Facebook, Instagram are not naughty. They're well embedded in the political economic ruling elite of the country. They amplify or mute whatever messages that elite wants amplified or muted. The US can't make rules for TikTok to do the same because that would be illegal, besides being too obviously partisan.
Aunche
The idea that TikTok is somehow less corruptible than Facebook or Instagram is laughable as American investors were largest investors of ByteDance to begin with. If it was only about Israel, they can be pressured into censorship the same way Meta supposedly is*. The difference is that TikTok can also be pressured by China, where its parent company resides.
*What is more likely is that TikTok isn't actually more pro-Palestinian than Meta, but the demographics that use it actually are which affects the algorithm and user reports.
propagandist
You're being downvoted but Greenblatt has stated it plainly.
Also the reason behind the 60 minutes fiasco and the CBS acquisition which had Bari Weiss installed there.
reaperducer
You're being downvoted but Greenblatt has stated it plainly.
Maybe he's being downvoted for taking the discussion off-topic.
an0malous
How is the reason for the TikTok sale off topic for a post about the TikTok sale?
wilg
This is brainrot conspiracy garbage. Preventing a geopolitical rival which we have no democratic control over from exerting algorithmic influence over our country is a no-brainer. Efforts to remove TikTok from PRC control predate the Oct 7, 2024 attacks.
Additionally, information about what was going on in Gaza was widely available and widely discussed on all social media platforms and in the mainstream media.
Additionally, if you're defending TikTok because it allowed them to amplify support for the Palestinian cause, it's interesting that TikTok themselves claim that you are wrong, as they said to the US Supreme court that "allegations that TikTok has amplified support for either side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unfounded". Are they lying here? If so, why should we trust them with control over mass social media? If they're not lying, you are wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_TikTok_in_the_...
UncleMeat
Sitting congresspeople said that this was one of the motivations.
wilg
I agree some Republicans (a dumb and bad group of people) support it for this reason, but divestiture (ideally to someone other than Larry Ellison) is still highly desirable.
ribosometronome
Why should it matter to the average citizen if the algorithmic control is coming from Ellison, Zuckerberg, or Shou Zi Chew?
Aunche
Ellison, Zuckerberg, and Shou Zi Chew (who to be clear is only the CEO of TikTok, not ByteDance) may be willing to brainrot Americans, but it's for the sake of profit, so they can be pressured to change. Facebook and Twitter cooperated with American intelligence to uncover to Russia's disinformation campaign and they have no incentivize to fake compliance.
From those investigations, it was revealed that Russia and likely other foreign adversaries do simply want to brainrot Americans for the sake of destabilizing the country. If TikTok gets investigated for Chinese intererfence, China can pressure Bytedance into sabotaging these investigations.
wilg
Because Shou Zi Chew answers to the PRC which is a geopolitical adversary of the country the average citizen is able to democratically determine the direction of.
tehjoker
TikTok allowed the algorithm to amplify what people wanted to see while palestine content was suppressed on other platforms. What they said was true and they also allowed this content to be amplified, which was a good thing.
null
wilg
So, in your opinion the TikTok algorithm is politically neutral?
user982
> This is brainrot conspiracy garbage.
Here's Mitt Romney explaining that "the number of mentions of Palestinians" was the reason why "there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down (potentially) TikTok": https://x.com/wideofthepost/status/1787104142982283587
> Additionally, if you're defending TikTok because it allowed them to amplify support for the Palestinian cause, it's interesting that TikTok themselves claim that you are wrong, as they said to the US Supreme court that "allegations that TikTok has amplified support for either side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unfounded". Are they lying here? If so, why should we trust them with control over mass social media? If they're not lying, you are wrong.
The sentence that you quoted from that Wikipedia page came at the end of this paragraph:
Several officials subsequently cited alleged pro-Palestinian bias on the app. While advocating for a ban, Representative Mike Gallagher alleged "rampant pro-Hamas propaganda on the app". Senators Mitt Romney, Josh Hawley, Representative Mike Lawler, and other Republicans have also alleged that TikTok had a pro-Palestine bias, with Lawler even alleging that TikTok was being manipulated during pro-Palestinian protests at colleges. In a filing to the Supreme Court, TikTok's attorneys said, "Allegations that TikTok has amplified support for either side of the Israeli- Palestinian conflict are unfounded."
wilg
The conspiracy here is the idea that the only reason someone might want TikTok in the US to be under US control is to suppress information about Gaza. The best reason is to have the media that people in the US consume not be controlled by geopolitical rivals through opaque algorithms!
kemotep
You think we are going to get to a whole year of Byte Dance operating illegally in the United States?
pjc50
I don't see why not, I'd expect four years of illegal operation.
hopelite
I haven’t really followed things in great detail, but something that has stood out to be is the apparent linchpin that was pulled in this whole affair. Like it or not, TikTok is an American company with American employees and even running on American infrastructure and oversight that was established years ago now; not somehow the cabal in our government has simply eschewed rule of law and their own ideals, to basically strong-arm this deal because there was too much free speech, a fundamental right of Americans, which the government is legally prohibited from violating and doing so is as much of a capitol offense as it can get, violating not only the law of the Constitution, but also the rights enshrined in the Declaration of Independence.
I don’t see how a competent legal team could not shred this whole effort at disowning TikTok and at the very least make it extremely expensive politically and even to the core foundation of legitimacy of the current government in what is for some reason still called the USA in spite of gross patterns of consistent material violations of all the terms.
btown
> an American company with American employees
While technically true, these articles give context about the level of decision-making control and data access from ByteDance, as of the time of their publication.
https://restofworld.org/2024/tiktok-chinese-us-ban/ (2024)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... (2022)
big_youth
> TikTok is an American company with American employees
All tiktok code is written by ByteDance engineers in china.
Context for the non-beleivers. I work on the TikTok USDS team.
usui
This isn't true. You should ask friends who work at TikTok before you write comments like this.
null
stefan_
I don't get it, did you miss that this went all the way to the Supreme Court already? It's not "anti free speech", it's "anti Chinese platform".
matthewdgreen
What's changed in 2025 is that the Trump administration has illegally postponed the ban passed by Congress four times, despite the fact that the law does not allow the President to extend the ban. And, naturally, the fact that this is to facilitate purchase by a coalition of political allies.
SilverElfin
> TikTok is an American company with American employees
Those American employees are required to basically uphold the interests of the CCP. This is done as part of an agreement around their stock grants apparently. From https://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2025/01/14/exclusive-d... there are details on what executives of TikTok have to agree to in writing:
> “You shall comply with applicable laws and guidelines and abide by public order and good customs, the socialist system, national interests, legal rights of other citizens, and information authenticity requirements,” the purported Douyin agreement reviewed by the DCNF states.
> The document also lists a number of prohibited activities for employees, including “overthrowing the socialist system,” “inciting secession,” “undermining national religious policies, or promoting cults and superstitions,” as well as injunctions against “meaningless information or deliberate use of character combinations to avoid technical censorship.”
And in fact, they’re required to report to a ByteDance management team in China, and acknowledge that they’re employees of ByteDance (and therefore NOT the American company):
> TikTok executives also sign agreements with ByteDance consenting to digital surveillance and report to China-based leadership, according to other documents and audio recordings supporting Puris’ lawsuit.
> Other documents also seem to indicate TikTok ultimately considered Puris to be a ByteDance employee.
> While onboarding in 2019, Puris was allegedly required to sign one hiring document reviewed by the DCNF affirming: “I am a director, executive officer or general partner of ByteDance LTD.”
effnorwood
well come on people, tik tok
SilverElfin
Given that Trump and Hegseth seem to now be friendly with China and talking about a “G2” (as opposed to G7), I feel the TikTok ban that should have happened months ago is just going to not happen, as long as (my speculation) someone in the Trump family is able to profit off business dealings with China. It makes no sense not to enact the ban that Congress passed.
jmyeet
As a reminder of the timeline:
- November 2023: audio leaked of Apartheid Defense League CEO Jonathon Greenblatt saying they had a Tiktok problem [1] because Tiktok didn't sufficiently censor live broadcast of the genocide, unlike, say, Meta [2]
- 5 March 2024: the bill to ban Tiktok was introduced to the Senate [3];
- 7 March 2024: the bill passes the Senate;
- 13 March 2024: the bill passes the House;
- 24 April 2024: Biden signs the bill into law.
So yes the Tiktok "ban" was about a foreign government, just not the one usually stated.
Larry Ellison is the world's second richest man. His son, David Ellison, now heads Paramount Skydance and are key players in the Tiktok acquisition. David Ellison acquired CBS News and put Bari Weiss in charge of it. Why was CBS News for sale? Because 60 Minutes said one slightly negative thing about Israel's involvement in Gaza so Shari Redstone sold it to Paramount [4].
What I find both funny and depressing is that the US government is doing exactly what they accuse China of doing. It's not even a partisan issue. On foreign policy, America is uniparty, just like China.
For anyone who follows legislative affairs, this rocketed through.
[1]: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/inside-adl-anti-defa...
[2]: https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...
[3]: https://nolabels.org/the-latest/tiktok-ban-timeline-how-trum...
[4]: https://www.cjr.org/feature/cbs-news-redstone-ellison-60-min...
seizethecheese
I’m confused. Why are you alleging a link between the first few bullet points? I'm not saying there's no link, but it certainly doesn't seem obvious without some substantiation.
skdhshdd
The pro Israel lobby in America is very powerful. Once they saw a threat to their interests (Netanyahu’s 8th front) they exercised this power to quickly achieve a major goal.
boredpeter
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irishcoffee
> On foreign policy, America is uniparty, just like China.
Oh, do tell of the countries that aren’t uniparties when talking about national security.
Oh, none of them? So just making a bullshit false equivalence?
zeroonetwothree
Post hoc non es propter hoc
SilverElfin
This is just trying to fit different data points to confirm a conspiratorial narrative around Israel. The reality is that China has a tool to manipulate and influence American politics in TikTok, where there is no transparency around what their algorithm does or what censorship/amplification they perform manually. On top of that, TikTok lied about data collection on kids (https://www.npr.org/2024/08/02/nx-s1-5061604/doj-sues-tiktok...), lied about where data is sent (https://www.techspot.com/news/104032-us-claims-tiktok-collec...), and their CEO literally lied under oath (https://walberg.house.gov/media/press-releases/walberg-urges...). The executives of TikTok should be in jail.
The US government has considered TikTok a national security issue for a long time, and considered banning it even back in 2020 - a full 3 years before October 7th. So it has nothing to do with Israel, or Jews, or Gaza, and everything to do with not following American laws, defending against asymmetric warfare from the Chinese government, and national security.
MPSFounder
I think you are wrong. Anyone who is not blind sees this is about Ghaza. I would feel much better if someone besides Ellison (a religious jewish man who is pro Israel) did not control TikTok. Israel is losing support in the West (and rightfully so) at an alarming rate. Netanyahu himself said controlling social media (and singled out Tiktok) is imperative for Israel to continue its genocide. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3tdrO8bA7rs
boredpeter
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null
amelius
Honestly. The last people I'm going to feel sorry for is TikTok investors.
bdangubic
why is that? do you stand any other moral ground for investing? apple? google? amazon?
MangoToupe
True. They're all absolute leeches.
madeofpalk
Fuck em all.
nine_zeros
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MPSFounder
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amanaplanacanal
Are they claiming that the US president lied? Say it ain't so!
1659447091
They are reporting that the US investors set to make the purchase are still waiting on China to finalize a deal.
The thing about Trump saying it was a done deal*, like most other things he says, was true in the sense that the deal to find the US investors to buy the app is done. And having the "blessing" or any other uttering of China's President Xi Jinping is not the same as having the official action of China finalizing the sale. It did allow him to sign an executive order allowing tiktok to continue operating while the deal is being finalized -- and additional executive order 90 day extensions in the mean time.
With the sale going to the usual suspects, Larry Ellison, Abu Dhabi MGX, it makes this look more like Trump is being played at his own game. Or, like the other comment says about ByteDance and China mocking the US in this silly posturing. Maybe they get it done on Monday, or give it another 90 days.
*See paltering.[0][1]. It's the reason you get people saying he lied and others saying he's unfairly being called a liar. A more accurate way to describe what he says is: manipulation. Even news outlets are capable of being manipulated (and some may encourage it), which in turn causes all of them to be called "partisan hacks" and the populace loses trust -- but in the wrong things/people.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paltering
[1] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171114-the-disturbing-a...
mandeepj
President Xi and Putin aren’t just seasoned politicians, they are experienced and know the rules of the game very well. Trump is not just naive, but he’s utterly stupid as well. Not sure why voters can’t see through his BS.
bigbadfeline
> President Xi and Putin aren’t just seasoned politicians,
True for Xi but Putin hasn't a clue about what he's doing, calling him a politician is a stretch.
BaconVonPork
Social conservatism is disgust. They don't want to see through simple explanations that let them feel less disgust for themselves.
estearum
The law is quite clear the 90 day extension is a one-time thing and the Trump admin had already violated said law prior to actually invoking that clause.
The thing about Trump saying it’s a done deal is that, like on many other topics, he’s simply lying.
yifanl
The thing about breaking the law is that when you don't suffer any consequences, the strictly optimal thing to do is to keep breaking the law.
Whoa, it should be bigger news. I too was under the impression that it was a done deal, with Larry Ellison coming in to mop the floor.
It would be so funny if ByteDance and China continued to successfully mock the US in this silly posturing.