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Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

Ireland's Inability to Defend Itself

57 comments

·December 6, 2025

osiris970

Ireland having 0 military capabilities, and being completely dependent on NATO, while being extremely opinionated, on how and what NATO does, always irked me deeply.

happytoexplain

The implication that having military strength is a prerequisite for having opinions about international policy is horrifying.

missedthecue

No offense but how is that not obvious by second grade. Don't have a big mouth if you don't have a big stick too. Ireland doesn't have quiet opinions, but a rather big mouth about other nations' foreign policy.

culi

Ireland doesn't have exactly zero military capabilities. For example they have a military base in Lebanon. They have a decades long partnership with Hezbollah

reorder9695

Ireland doesn't have 0 military capabilities, they have enough of a military to conduct peacekeeping missions elsewhere, which they don't need to do. They just don't have the ability to defend an invasion, but they do certainly have a military that does good in the world.

simmerup

Ireland have an army with no tanks and an air force with no jets.

How would they maintain peace in another country without the help of others

nradov

OK so their capability isn't precisely 0, but it rounds to 0.

dralley

Their "peacekeeping" missions are somewhere between utterly impotent / useless and actively counterproductive. Playing dumb and doing nothing while Hezbollah uses you as cover to launch missiles over the border from a couple hundred meters away is not keeping the peace.

osiris970

Yeah, didn't they completely fail at stopping hezbollah from rebuilding, right in their backyard?

TulliusCicero

Ireland nobly took a stand against fighting the Nazis in WW2, and they've been similarly brave ever since.

Spooky23

Assuming you’re not just some Russian bot, which countries embrace the return of deserters?

Ireland chose to take a position against colonialism, after having experienced the warm embrace of the British Empire, ethnic cleansing and oppression for centuries.

TulliusCicero

> Ireland chose to take a position against colonialism

By refusing to fight the Nazis? What?

Are you implying that the Allies were the colonizers in WW2? (The Allied countries were also colonizers obviously, but within WW2 it's pretty obvious which countries were doing more of that, and more aggressively)

beezlewax

Notably thousands of Irish soldiers did fight the Germans in WW2 but via joining the British Army... an act that was frowned upon at the times. Many were killed.

TulliusCicero

I don't dispute that there are many brave individual Irish people of course, but in terms of the country as a whole in matters of policy...

whenc

And when they came back, they were blacklisted by order of the government:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16287211

TulliusCicero

100% agreed with this article. The whole idea of Ireland's supposed neutrality is a farce. Does anyone really think that if a country like Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, other European nations would just shrug it off? Of course not, and the Irish are well aware of that and rely on it (already they explicitly rely on the UK to help defend their country as a matter of policy).

So really it's a simple hypocrisy, a one-way street. You help us, but we don't help you. We're too principled to help others, you see.

tonymet

Nearly Everything consequential in history was unexpected, and for the most part we have a record of someone important saying "that will never happen"

throw310822

There's also a long history of tragic events happening precisely because everyone was preparing for them (see: WWI) and of course, of horribly wrong choices getting prepared for things that never happened.

beezlewax

Except the Irish army has conducted large numbers of peacekeeping missions as part of the United Nations. Irish soldiers have died in said operations. The Siege at Jadotville is one example - there is a pretty great film about this.

nradov

The Irish were idiots for sending peacekeepers there without adequate air, armor, and artillery support.

TulliusCicero

That's laudable, but it doesn't change the fact that they rely on their European neighbors to defend them while feigning "neutrality" and wouldn't return the favor if another, say, EU country were seriously attacked.

throw310822

If Russia decided to full-on invade Ireland, a country of 4.5 million (as completely absurd as this idea is, being Ireland where it is) having its own military would not help Ireland- it should better capitulate quickly to limit damage.

TulliusCicero

There's a similar population ratio between the PRC and Taiwan I believe, so I guess Taiwan should just give up on having a military entirely then?

Not possible for them to stop China, so why bother? Just lie back and think of Ireland.

throw310822

If Taiwan weren't defended by the US (for purely strategic interests, certainly not because of idealism or democracy) then yes, sure. Better than a destructive war with the same identical outcome.

Btw, do you also happen to think that Ireland should arm itself against a possible invasion from the US?

Avicebron

Russia invading Ireland would be like China invading Cuba.. there's a geo in geopolitics for a reason..

dralley

What? The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion is precisely why resistance is extremely plausible and not being able to do so is indefensible. Even a "token" amount of resistance makes it exponentially more difficult.

You would certainly have been the type of person whining about how Ukraine was doomed to fall in a matter of hours under the incredible size and capability of the Russian military. Like, these guys are just not that competent. You can make the job nearly impossible for them by just giving a single solitary fuck.

To say nothing of the fact that "full invasion" isn't even really the target. They just need to be able to defend their own airspace and sea lanes against errant Russian planes and ships.

throw310822

> The very distance involved and difficulty of such an invasion

Not to mention the possibility of an invasion from Australia. They should prepare against that, too! See, the whole premise of this discussion is completely absurd: there is no threat whatsoever by Russia to Ireland. There's a narrative that gets pushed more every day that Europe is under threat from Russia and should gear up for a war, and even (say some) attack first. Notice that all the drones spotted above airports and military installations are only alleged to belong to Russia, but not a single one has been reasonable attributed to them. And the party that has most to gain from an increase in the tension between Europe and Russia is Ukraine, not Russia.

> You would certainly have been the type of person whining about how Ukraine was doomed to fall

And I was right, as it seems, hundreds of thousands of deaths later, cities razed to the ground, a country in ruins. Those who didn't want peace talks share in part the responsibility of those deaths, do you aver think about it?

thfuran

No, they need to be able to defend their elections and social media from Russian interference.

istultus

Ireland is such a useful tax haven that it's within all of our interests to protect it </kidding not kidding>

sonofhans

You know, there’s something to be said for Ireland’s attitude. The other islands (ha!) and the continent have treated them as second-class chattel for centuries, while competing amongst themselves for global hegemony. Better to stay out of that game and sort their own business, many of them think.

TulliusCicero

Ireland literally has a policy of relying on the UK to defend them.

culi

I assume you're referring to the 1952 agreement that the RAF is allowed to intercept unidentified or hostile aircraft in Irish airspace?

That's because the UK does not want Ireland to have an army. Ireland has a long history of standing with Native Americans, Palestinians, and other groups facing colonization. They even have a military base in Lebanon and a very long standing partnership with Hezbollah (Hezbollah was born out of the struggle to take back the bottom third of their country that was occupied by the US and Israel so they are often seen as an anti-colonial movement).

Ireland having any sort of military capacities would directly contradict UK military interests.

_dain_

>Better to stay out of that game

The Russians are making incursions into Irish waters and airspace, it's just a brute fact. So either they play the game, or Britain plays it for them. They don't get to sit aloof above it all, that's not how reality works.

They are a protectorate in all but name, it's disgraceful.

AlexandrB

Canada is in a similar situation. A lot of high-minded talk about peacekeeping and neutrality, but constantly benefitting from being implicitly protected by US defence policy. The real test will come if/when Russia decides to challenge Canadian arctic sovereignty.

hexbin010

Inability through choice, it should be clarified, given the title the poster or mods decided upon. Perhaps "unwillingness" is more accurate - they are a rich country after all, what with all that GDP

jmclnx

My first thought was "defend itself from what ?", but in this new ages of drones, I guess it could be an issue.

IIRC, doesn't Ireland pay the UK for some type of defense ?

TulliusCicero

> defend itself from what ?"

The article addresses this unfortunate attitude: the whole premise of your question is, "well they'd have to go through these other countries first, so not our problem".

It's a bit like if Kansas refused to pay anything towards the defense budget because any hostile powers would have to go through all those other states first.

But, as the article also notes, air and sea power are things. If a hostile power decides to fuck with one of the many undersea Internet cables that make their way to and through Ireland, what's Ireland going to do about it?

Animats

> It's a bit like if Kansas refused to pay anything towards the defense budget because any hostile powers would have to go through all those other states first

That's Spain's current position in NATO.

TulliusCicero

I don't entirely disagree, but at least Spain does have some semblance of a real military, even if it's underfunded.

Spooky23

The Russians have actively sabotaged undersea cables belonging or connecting to NATO countries. What have they done about it?

In general, states like Kansas are dependent on Federal money anyway, so they they don’t really contribute much. 10 states basically support the Federal government from a tax perspective.

jltsiren

Kansas would probably spend very little on defense, if it was a sovereign state.

Defense spending is not virtue signaling. It's money countries may have to waste if they feel threatened. But if there are no credible threats, it's better to lower the taxes or to spend the money on something that actually benefits the citizens.

Ekaros

What if UK would be one to invade them?

dontlaugh

The UK already occupied the north of Ireland.

Animats

Um.

See Irish history vs. the UK.

_dain_

Drones, and hostile ships fucking around with transatlantic cables and pipelines.

>IIRC, doesn't Ireland pay the UK for some type of defense ?

No, we do it for free.

cdilld

I think Ireland's commitment to pacifism and neutrality is laudable. Too few people live here to be able to defend against attacks from a larger power, and Ireland's strong suit has always been diplomacy, anyway. That obviously annoys people who either (for some unfathomable reason) like war or stand to gain personally from increased defence spending. Fortunately, there is little appetite for the kind of militarisation that the author of this article is hoping for. I'll add, too, that societies organised around the sort of violence, hostility, aggression, and cynicism that go hand in hand with powerful militaries don't seem to be very nice places to live.

TulliusCicero

Ireland literally relies on the UK to defend them.

It's hypocritical mooching, plain and simple.

cdilld

given Britain's entire history wrt Ireland, I'd say defending Ireland is the least they could do.

culi

It's not even about that really. Enemy aircraft in Irish airspace is against British interests. For that matter, Ireland having any sort of military capabilities is probably against British interests. The situation is everything the UK could hope for. I doubt the UK would allow it to change

osiris970

This assumes that all nation and political actors will be happy to engage in democracy, which isn't the case. Not every country is a rational liberal democracy (and even those are having a rough time).

dralley

There are legitimate practical issues with Ireland not being capable of policing its airspace or marine borders that don't go away just because Ireland is good at diplomacy (an assertion which I question in the first place).