Reselling tickets for profit to be outlawed in UK government crackdown
43 comments
·November 17, 2025cyrusradfar
RHSeeger
I disagree that they extra ticket price will now go to the artist/venue; because they always had the option to raise their ticket prices.
However, wanting to keep ticket prices down for _other_ reasons (selling more merch, good will, etc) is valid.
hypeatei
If Venues and Artists were missing out, couldn't they have changed their terms when selling the ticket?
I don't really see why the UK government would need to step in here at all.
WalterBright
Arbitrage is a normal free market process that finds the optimal prices for things. Trying to regulate prices always results in gluts, shortages, and black markets.
matthewdgreen
Have you considered the possibility that this dogma is not accurate, and that in the US we actually have a market failure?
usr1106
Creating artificial shortage and than charging overprices is not a normal free market process. Businesses should create added value, then they can charge a price for it.
Actors that misuse or unfairly dominate free markets will trigger regulation, that's the way it has always been. Some regulators are weak, so we still have endure cancers like Google and Microsoft.
hypeatei
Hmm, it seems like we've forgotten that we can vote with our wallet. If this practice wasn't desired because it raised prices too much or some other reason, then people wouldn't give the resellers their money.
RHSeeger
This assumes the only dynamics are "the seller wants to make as much as possible" and "the buyer wants to spend as little as possible".
There are plenty of cases where the seller (artist, venue, etc) want to keep prices low to allow a wider audience to attend the show.
lotsofpulp
There is no artificial shortage, there is an inherent shortage. Sufficiently popular entertainers such that a ticket price arbitrage opportunity exists must be, by definition, in short supply.
There exist only so many performance days in an entertainer’s lifetime. And, obviously, venues have capacity limits.
usr1106
So what is the added value created by those resellers to address the inherent shortage?
mrtksn
It may lead to optimal profit but immensely hurt the society. Not everything should be optimized for profit.
If you are going after full profit optimization we are leaving huge amount on the table by offering billionaires food at prices that are insignificant for tem. Maybe we should start optimizing for the million dollar burgers then?
If the average Brit is spending %10 of their daily income for a meal, obviously its suboptimal for a person making a million a day to eat anything for less than 100K. In fact, it doesn't even have to have anything to do with percentages, maybe the meal can be optimized up until 999910GBP. Even the rich guy needs to eat, optimize the prices to the point that he has to choose between starvation and 999910GBP burger
_dain_
seller agrees to sell ticket at $PRICE.
buyer agrees to buy ticket at $PRICE.
how is society hurt, here?
the government banning this is immediately harmful: it prevents a mutually agreeable trade that would otherwise have increased the utility of both parties.
mrtksn
People can't go to concerts despite being just as hardworking or just as big fans and start shooting CEOs on the streets.
Some systems need to work and be accessible to everyone so we can sustain peaceful and healthy society.
This is not charity, this is to account for externalities and the miscalculations in the free market. Awful lot of people are underpaid and overpaid as they progress through their lives because the markets are actually not that efficient and prices are not formed under perfect information or instantly.
You want your mechanical engineers to be able to afford decent life even if all the market current wants is JavaScript engineers because when the tides shift you may end up needing mechanical engineers to produce physical stuff so you want them around and happy.
Also, the price could actually be too low too when its optimized for short term profits. Re-sell 100GBP tickets for 500GBP, filter for money and leave out the actual fans and maybe lose all the events for the next year. If you are going to do a daytime robbery, better not ever need money again from the people you are robbing.
helsinkiandrew
That would be an auction. Now we have a situation where a third party gets between seller and buyer, purchases large quantities of tickets then sells them for an inflated price to the buyer and both buyer and seller feel ripped off.
sowbug
That argument should be equally valid for US healthcare, prison phone calls, price gouging during natural disasters, housing prices, and college tuition.
Yet many people, possibly most people, feel something is broken.
matthewdgreen
Seller agrees to sell ticket at PRICE. Monopoly intermediate provider sells it at $PRICE+$markup. Monopoly intermediate provider sells it to a reseller, which artificially limits the supply available to buyers at any given moment. Buyers have to go to resellers, who then pay $markup2 back to the monopoly provider to transfer the ticket to the ultimate buyer. This may even repeat several times, resulting in the monopoly provider reaping more in markup fees than the seller receives for the actual product.
tombot
why can’t I just pay ticketmaster the face value, why must we allow another middleman to charges me more? because capitalism? na mate
hertzdonut
[dead]
criddell
Are you assuming the goal is to find the optimal price?
Pet_Ant
I think tickets should be auctioned by the venue. It means there is no incentive for bots or scalpers.
rvz
At this point, making money will become illegal in the United Kingdom.
_dain_
idiotic populist move. resellers exist because the listed price is much lower than the price people are willing to pay. banning them doesn't make the demand go away. this will just create a black market in resold tickets, with no legal recourse against fraud etc.
yookay government's crusade to outlaw all useful economic activity continues apace. you can't legislate away scarcity.
EDIT:
>How is scalping a useful economic activity? What new value is created by for example buying up loads of Taylor Swift concert tickets and selling them at a marked up price?
if I don't want to wait in a queue or spam F5 on a website at 4 in the morning so I can be one of the first, I can instead pay somebody to do all that tedious work for me, and they can profit from it. this is a valuable service that I'm willing to pay for, and have in fact paid for with no regrets whatsoever.
SCARCITY IS A FUNDAMENTAL ECONOMIC FACT. more people want to attend a concert than there are seats available. this scarcity must be rationed in some way. there are many ways: queues, lotteries, clientelism, theft. prices are one of the more efficient mechanisms, because unlike the others, money can be directly traded, stored, accounted for, and is a means by which the value of other goods and services can be compared.
if I wait in a queue, that is a cost I have to pay, but it is simply lost. it goes nowhere. but if I pay someone else to sit in the queue for me, I can do something else useful with the time I would have spent in the queue, and that other person can then use the money to buy something else in the future. that is the value of scalping! moreover, that one other person can sit in the queue on behalf of N other people; we all benefit from this economic specialisation and reduction of redundancy.
scalpers are the unjustly persecuted heroes of our economy. they are apostates from Queueing, our national religion.
yladiz
It’s not like you really had much recourse before anyway, if someone sold you a fake ticket or one that’s already been used, are you really going to sue them or the platform? Charge back and hope you get the money back?
_dain_
>Charge back and hope you get the money back?
yes, that's what Section 75 protection is for
criddell
> this will just create a black market in resold tickets
It doesn't have to though, does it? For example there's no black market for airline tickets.
lawlessone
>resellers exist because the listed price is much lower than the price people are willing to pay.
This is such a copout, resellers inflate the price.
>yookay government's crusade to outlaw all useful economic activity continues apace.
How is scalping a useful economic activity?
What new value is created for concert goers or artists/venue by for example buying up loads of Taylor Swift concert tickets and selling them at a marked up price?
No value is added by paying a huge extra margin to rent seeking scalpers.
Not everything in the world has to be a stock market.
>SCARCITY IS A FUNDAMENTAL ECONOMIC FACT.
>scalpers are economic heroes.
Lol, the tout is crashing out.
hypeatei
The people willing to pay those prices inflate them. I could buy a $1k car and list it for a million dollars tomorrow. If no one buys it, then it's not worth $1M. If someone does, then it's worth that amount.
WheatMillington
You're ignoring the effect of scalpers, who dramatically increase the demand and thereby drive the secondary price up. It's self-fulfilling.
_dain_
why must we believe that the resellers "inflating" the price, instead of the initial price being "deflated"? there is no Platonic "true" price here.
the ground truth is what individual people are willing to pay.
lawlessone
>the ground truth is what individual people are willing to pay.
This kinda seems like it's just putting an ideology before people.
Markets and money are just tools for human benefit, don't turn your wrench into a religion.
WheatMillington
>useful economic activity
Sorry but I remain unconvinced.
kingstnap
Its not, efficiency doesn't mean charging exactly what people will pay.
Scalpers don't produce more tickets, they just eat away consumer surplus. It's not a net good its just rent seeking.
I think this is net-positive for venues, local economies, and the artists. All this money is effectively getting sucked out of local economies and moving to multi-national marketplaces.
We also know prices can go up on the raw ticket and we know that consumers can bear that given where they were before this legislation. That additional money will go to Venues, Artists and Labels who will, ideally, create more and better shows for the all of us.
If you imagine today that a ticket is $45 (speaking US) and customers pay $450, eventually for it. That $405 doesn't go to the Artist or the Venue, it goes to a middle layer which adds little to no value for the eco-system beyond supporting a transaction. Moreover, when you spend all the budget on the ticket, you're less likely to buy merch and food at the venue.
Something most on this site could easily build with the help of stripe, a few database tables, and an API to the venue's ticketing management system.