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Comparing the power consumption of a 30 year old refrigerator to a brand new one

ternus

Totally fine to choose as the author did, but for others who might face a similar choice: repairing a thermostat in a fridge is dramatically easier than fixing almost anything in a dishwasher. I did that with my fridge - cost <$20 for the part and maybe 30 minutes of work. Your (EU) kilometrage may vary.

I suspect the power savings would be much less dramatic with a fixed thermostat.

analog31

Indeed, been there. Just getting the dishwasher out of its cubby hole is a major effort, and involves dealing with not just the wiring but the hoses too. And if it's an older house, chances are good that the dishwasher had to be crammed in with a certain amount of hacking, cussing, and persuasion.

The fridge rolls out into the room on its own wheels.

RandomBacon

Unless the fridge is sitting on the subfloor/slab and a floor was built around the fridge, blocking it in.

aidos

Amen. I put my dishwasher in myself so I get to curse myself for that hacking.

Worst was sourcing the parts though. Getting the thing out, effectively getting it up on blocks to run it and see the issue was hard work. Getting the specific totally non-standard o-ring size out of the manufacturer was impossible. In the end I resorted to siliconing but I just cannot dump something like that over a 5c part.

ternus

Many dishwashers are supposed to be wood-screwed into the surrounding cabinets! Recently installed one for a friend and was surprised to see that instruction.

Meanwhile, with the exception of ice makers/water dispensers (1/4 PEX), fridges don't have to deal with hoses for the most part. So much easier IME.

criddell

I just replaced the drain pump and motherboard on my GE dishwasher and it was super easy. Everything was easy to access and all the major parts had a QR code on them making parts lookup idiot proof.

When the parts showed up they came with all the clamps and other replacement hardware that I didn’t even know I needed.

ternus

Also: if you find ice forming in your fridge, or uneven cooling inside, it may be due to a clogged drain tube. This was the root cause of my fridge breaking: tube in the back clogged -> condensation backed up around the evaporator coils -> froze solid -> blocked circulation fan -> incorrect thermal readings, warm/frozen spots in fridge.

dawnerd

Depends. My last fridge the thermostat went bad and it couldn’t be fixed because they embedded the entire thing into the foam. Terrible design. Was a whirlpool.

echelon_musk

> Comparing the power consumption of a [broken] 30 year old refrigerator to a brand new one

throw10920

Yeah, the title is misleading. The article says that one of the compressors on the old one was running constantly - if you applied the same failure mode to the new refrigerator, the difference would be significantly less.

quickthrowman

I would expect a refrigerator that has EC motors running the compressor(s) and fan(s) to be around 2-2.5x as efficient as one with fixed speed motors, based on what I know about variable frequency drives and three-phase induction motors. For those, 80% speed uses 50% of the power, 63% uses 25% of the power. For an 1800 rpm motor that is 1440 rpm and 1134 rpm. VFDs work well for most applications with variable torque (fans and pumps), but applications requiring constant torque (saws, grinders, etc) are better served by fixed speed starters.

amluto

> variable frequency drives and three-phase induction motors. For those, 80% speed uses 50% of the power, 63% uses 25% of the power.

You’re presumably thinking of the “Affinity Laws”, which, according to Wikipedia (and plenty of other sources), “apply to pumps, fans, and hydraulic turbines. In these rotary implements, the affinity laws apply both to centrifugal and axial flows.”

This is, IMO, one of the worst kinds of science writing. Wikipedia, and plenty of other sources, make little mention of when the do and don’t apply or, relatedly, why they’re true and why they can’t always be true.

They generally apply to situations where a pump is pumping fluid through something like a filter or a long pipe where the pipe is a closed loop or at least the ends are at the same elevation (e.g. a swimming pool pump, except when pumping from a pool into a higher hot tub). So you have no actual work being done by moving fluid, and you can run the pump slower, and thus move less fluid per unit time, thus reducing friction in a manner that the pressure that the pump needs to overcome goes all the way to zero as the flow rate approaches zero.

But the affinity laws are not really anything fundamental about pumps, and they certainly do not override conservation of energy.

Now consider a refrigerator. The compressor is pumping refrigerant from an (approximately) fixed low pressure to a fixed high pressure. (The fluid goes back from high pressure to low pressure via a capillary tube or expansion valve or similar lossy device -- it gets its pressure increased in the gas phase and decreased in the liquid phase.) There's some friction, but after subtracting friction, the pressure is independent of flow rate, and thus the work done per unit flow is independent of flow rate, and the pump power scales linearly with flow as opposed to super-linearly as the affinity laws suggest.

Also, the compressor is a positive-displacement pump, and the affinity laws don't even pretend to apply to these.

(A well pump is another common system where the affinity laws will lead to nonsensical results. If you want to size a well pump properly, you need to know the height that you're raising the water, the output pressure you need, and the range of flows that you want. And then you look at the actual measured performance curves of the pumps (and their drives) that you are considering, and you pick something appropriate.)

All that being said, variable-speed fridges exist, and they're kind of nice in that they try to run continuously and quietly instead of alternating between full-power (and loud) and all the way off. And they are probably a bit more efficient because there's less friction and because the motors are likely to be more efficient three-phase designs instead of the not-actually-amazing single-phase motors you'll find in older fridges.

OJFord

It's still functional though, the point is comparing 'keep running the old tired one' vs 'replace with new', not 'how well were they made then vs now'.

guerby

I got a rated "A" for one year, this model (256 liter fridge + 122 liter freezer) :

https://eprel.ec.europa.eu/screen/product/refrigeratingappli...

Rated for 113 kWh/year

I left a powermeter on it for one year and got 130 kWh.

It's amazing that the average power consumption is less than 15 Watt.

woile

A 21 kWh/month it's 252 kwh/annum (I guess?), which is around energy label E in the new EU energy labels.

If you go for energy label A, some fridges have 101 kWh/annum, which is more than half less! I haven't seen many, and they are usually very tall, but hopefully we can see more and more in the future.

null

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prmoustache

The dramatic things with refrigerators is that in most countries people will install them in the kitchen for obvious practicality reasons, which is often also the hottest room of the house/appartment due to ovens, stoves and spending a significant amount of time there. If you think of it, it is bonkers that we put a device meant to keep stuff cold in what is a heated place in northern countries. Some hold houses and building used to have non heated dedicated rooms meant to keep food at a lower temperature naturally in winter but this has pretty much disappeared.

OTOH I live in a coastal city in south of Spain and every time I read a label that said food shouldn't be in a fridge but kept in a fresh and dry storage I ask myself where the eff should I store it there is no place like that unless I am running aircon 24/7 which I certainly won't do.

JumpCrisscross

> kept in a fresh and dry storage I ask myself where the eff should I store it

Your mountain home. (I'd hazard a guess that many such products come from the interior versus humid coasts.)

gdelfino01

New ones break quickly and then consume zero energy. So then you buy an even newer one without caring at all about the emissions to buy the new one and to get rid of the old one. And then feel good to be "saving the planet" because you have a super efficient fridge and repeat the cycle.

FabHK

Why talk about 2.6 kWh/day (power*time/time = energy/time = power) when there is perfectly fine unit for that, namely the watt?

2.6 kWh/day = 2.6 kWh/24h = 108 W, on average.

dogsgobork

Electric bills aren't calculated by the Watt, you pay per kWh. The expected cost of running the fridge is the salient information.

tomrod

0.108 x 168 hours/wk x 4.4 wks/month gives a good approximation for kwh/month. Demand over time gives consumption just fine.

A 75% drop is nice and much improved.

bee_rider

Although this is totally informal, in a normal conversation if somebody gives me the wattage of a device, I assume they are peak power draw. For kWh/day, I assume they’ve accounted for some reasonable duty-factor.

snet0

I've had this thought before, when seeing labels that talk about kWh/day. The answer is very simple: you pay per kWh. When people want to know power efficiency, what they really want to know is "how much will this cost me to run?". That answer is most easily expressed in kWh per unit time.

kitten_mittens_

In the US, at least, there are some utilities that charge based on maximum kW (demand) and total kWh used (energy). ComEd in Chicago is a utility with a demand rate plan option.

tomrod

That tends to be commercial rates since businesses can have larger spikes in consumption, so the "pipe" needs to be larger. Industrial rates are similar.

There are some like ComEd that you call out that can apply the model to residential rates, though my (now dated) experience is that they are rarer.

SECProto

Knowing the average of 108 W wouldn't help with knowing your peak demand, as fridges vary significantly from off to startup to running, so knowing the average isn't useful in that situation either.

thesimon

> when seeing labels that talk about kWh/day

That's at least kinda reasonable. I'm always amused when I see TV energy labels that state

xx kWh/1000h

ASomniphobeHere

Possibly because it gives better intuition for the approximate cost per unit of time. Similar to how fuel consumption can be written as volume/length = area, but is still usually presented in the former way, since that shows the actual amount of resource being consumed.

neutronicus

Because the most familiar anchor for scale is the monthly meter reading, which is in kWh.

Ekaros

It is bit too derived unit. But on other hand it does make calculations pretty simple. Say 0.14 per kWh and then cost in month is simple multiplication 2.6300.14 . Or a year is 2.63650.14...

madaxe_again

Watts measure power, kWh measure energy - and they are a more convenient unit than J.

Marsymars

If you have natural gas connection, you can be charged for both kWh and GJ on the same bill!

saltcured

Or your utility may use freedom units like Therms

agsamek

My new Bosch 2020 refrigerator broke down after 3 years of usage. Coolant leakage. Not repairable due to the foam direct injection.

anjel

Todays appliances are built, by design, to break fast these days. So whether old (operating costs) or new (foreshortened lifespan) your appliances cost you more.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/modern-appliances...

(https://ghostarchive.org/archive/KGf2Z)

infecto

Was not immediately apparent in article but I did not read the whole thing. Beyond general repairability the other issue to me is the cost of labor. In Vietnam I can get near anything repaired because the cost of labor is so darn cheap. In America it makes no sense to be paying $100/hour usually minimum two hour repair plus the cost of the part.

I am ok with generally with having less ability to repair but I do wish more cities and companies and trade in programs for proper recycling.

trenchpilgrim

There are still some repairable brands. GE'a basic appliances (and their budget subbrands like Hotpoint) are a standout with excellent availability of parts and service data. A hotpoint electric range can be fixed by any homeowner with a screwdriver.

analog31

While we're on this topic, kudos to "Sears Parts Direct" for carrying a bewildering array of spare parts for those appliances.

anjel

The problem though is one of diminished durability by intent rather than repairability. Not to mention rising cost-of-repair.

dangus

As I recall GE is also one of the few/only brands that operates its own service business.

I will also point out that the way inflation has tended to work is that you can still buy high quality appliances and other consumer products (e.g., tailored clothes and built-to-last leather shoes), but when you do the inflation math you have to spend a lot to get the equivalent product from decades ago.

In other words, the same quality products generally still exist, the real issue is that a bunch of low price products that didn’t used to exist now do, and average people didn’t own as much stuff as they do now.

If you buy a $2500 Speed Queen or a $10,000 Sub-Zero you’re getting the kind of quality and repairability that used to exist in more appliances.

But when it comes to a $500 washing machine or dryer, when you adjust for inflation that product did not exist 40 years ago.

The other thing I’ve heard about this issue is that the mid-range consumer luxury type stuff is the segment to avoid: built cheaply but with a lot of features that fail and a high cost. E.g., Samsung refrigerators with touch screens on them. You’ll notice that most true luxury built-in brands don’t have a laundry list of gimmick features.

jeffbee

That article does not seem to support in any way the statement that appliances are intentionally designed for short lifespans.

abraxas

Energy Star appliances started to show up circa 1995 so there may have been comparably efficient fridges back then.

stereo

The author is in Estonia. Appliances in the European Union have different energy standards and labels, and run on different voltages, so you don’t ever see Energy Star fridges there.

Estonia joined the EU in 2004, and I don’t know what the energy labelling on appliances was like before then.

roflchoppa

I really want to know the power usage of the old fridge after it was fixed. :(

cogman10

My assumption, probably pretty close to the new fridge.

Very little has changed in fridge tech in 30 years besides them getting cheaper and breaking easier.

simpsond

Is that true though? Better coolants, inverters / variable speed / scroll /swing compressors, insulation and mfg, etc. maybe for residential it’s less impactful, but refrigeration in general has better efficiency than 30 years ago.

saltcured

For a fair comparison, they should measure a modern fridge when it misbehaving and running its WiFi and GPU constantly

parpfish

have there been improvements to the insulation? given how good high-end coolers are now, i'd assume that there's been something with the non-mechanical parts that could have improved

Ekaros

Maybe somewhat better insulation and then I have noticed with combined units that there is more of it. That is usable volume is smaller due to larger amount of insulation.

ctrlp

Regardless of efficiency, it is very difficult to find a newer refrigerator whose compressor doesn't emit a very irritating high pitched whine almost continuously.

jrmg

Personal pet level is that it’s so hard to get information on the noise level of appliances.

We’ve recently moved, and our new house’s crawl space has a Santa Fe dehumidifier in it that seems SO LOUD at night. I don’t think it’s broken - it’s just a compressor and fan with no engineering put into keeping them quiet. If I could get one that was as efficient and well built, but I knew would be quiet, I’d replace it in a heartbeat - but manufacturers don’t advertise noise levels.

Surely I can’t be the only one who’d pay substantially more for an appliance that was guaranteed to be quiet?

bob1029

I would try plugging a simple induction motor into the refrigerator circuit to see if it also makes a weird noise. It's possible you have a problem with the wiring itself (loose neutral, etc.).

I've never had issues with HF noise out of a refrigerator. It's always been the opposite kind of noise that has been a problem.

aurizon

The comments are well done and I am impressed. I would add the maker of the new one, partly as a tribute to them as well as gathering feedback from others. The fact that one compressors runs 24/7 might indicate it has failed to on 24/7 - also the ice block also says this? Thus a replacement thermostat might well reduce the KwHr used by the 24/7 operation. Looking up the model on youtube for thermostat repairs might help the new owner repair it and get a few more years, although an older less efficient unit, with a repaired thermostat it might not run 24/7 and use fewer KwHr?