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Uv format: Code Formatting Comes to uv (experimentally)

thanhhaimai

I'd rather `ruff` being merged with `ty` instead. `uv` for me is about package / project manager. It's not about code style. The only time `uv` should edit a code file is to update its dependencies (PEP 723).

On the other hand, both `ruff` and `ty` are about code style. They both edit the code, either to format or fix typing / lint issues. They are good candidates to be merged.

charliermarsh

To clarify, `ruff` and `uv` aren't being merged. They remain separate tools. This is more about providing a simpler experience for users that don't want to think about their formatter as a separate tool.

The analogy would be to Cargo: `cargo fmt` just runs `rustfmt`, but you can also run `rustfmt` separately if you want.

WD-42

Thank you for writing software for all of us Python day-jobbers who wish we were writing Rust instead.

drdaeman

Isn’t there `uv tool run ruff` already for this? Or `uv run ruff` if it’s a proper dependency? I’m not sure what’s the point of a special shortcut command, unless there are plans to make it flexible so it’ll be an abstraction over formatters (unifying ruff, black, etc).

charliermarsh

Yeah, you can definitely use `uvx ruff` (an alias for `uv tool run ruff`) to invoke Ruff. That's what I've done in my own projects historically.

The goal here is to see if users like a more streamlined experience with an opinionated default, like you have in Rust or Go: install uv, use `uv init` to create a project, use `uv run` to run your code, `uv format` to format it, etc. Maybe they won't like it! TBD.

(Ruff is installed when you invoke `uv format`, rather than bundled with the uv binary, so if you never use `uv format`, there aren't any material downsides to the experiment.)

chippiewill

It's part of the mission for uv to become "cargo for python". A one stop swiss-army knife for everything you need to manage a Python project. I think it'll get a `uv test` command at some point too.

The whole point is you just install `uv` and stop thinking about the pantheon of tools.

impulser_

I think the goal is to make uv a complete package manager for Python while still giving you the option to use the parts separately.

uv is like cargo for python.

If you only need a fast type checker you can just use ty, if you just need a fast formatter and linter you can just use ruff.

Combining ruff and ty doesn't make sense if you think about like this.

WD-42

They are mimicking Rust's cargo, which has `cargo fmt`

munificent

Also `go fmt` and `dart format`.

munro

But what if `ty` was also eventually merged into `uv` as well? 8-)

That's probably the vision, given all from astral.sh, but `ty` isn't ready yet.

zahlman

This is the direction I expected things to go, and not something I'm especially fond of. I'll stick with UNIX-philosophy tools, thanks.

zem

this is very much in line with the unix philosophy - it delegates formatting to ruff and simply provides a unified front end that calls out to the right specialized tool. think of it as a makefile.

zahlman

I don't think this is an apt (pun intended?) comparison at all.

alkh

I enjoy using uv a lot but am getting afraid that it is getting bloated for no reason. For ex., the number of niche flags that a lot of subcommands support is very high + some of them seemingly achieve the same result(uv run --no-project and uv run --active). I'd rather them working on improving existing tools and documentation than adding new (redundant) functionality

benreesman

It's really difficult to do Python projects in a sound, reproducible, reasonably portable way. uv sync is in general able to build you only a package set that it can promise to build again.

But it can't in general build torch-tensorrt or flash-attn because it has no way of knowing if Mercury was in retrograde when you ran pip. They are trying to thread a delicate an economically pivotal needle: the Python community prizes privatizing the profits and socializing the costs of "works on my box".

The cost of making the software deployable, secure, repeatable, reliable didn't go away! It just became someone else's problem at a later time in a different place with far fewer degrees of freedom.

Doing this in a way that satisfies serious operations people without alienating the "works on my box...sometimes" crowd is The Lord's Work.

treyd

Are they baked into the main executable or are they separate binaries (a la apt, cargo, etc)?

charliermarsh

It's a separate binary -- we install Ruff if you invoke `uv format`. So if you don't invoke `uv format`, there's no impact on the binary size, etc.

ayhanfuat

> an experimental new command that Python developers have been waiting for: uv format

Have developers really been waiting for this? What's wrong with ruff format?

loloquwowndueo

> Try out uv format in your next project and see how it fits into your development workflow. The experimental nature means your feedback could help shape how this feature evolves.

So maybe nobody has been waiting for this and the feedback will be: we don’t need this.

Also it uses ruff under the hood. If it’s integrated with uv, an advantage is one less tool to juggle.

jsight

I've been playing around with go quite a bit lately, and now think that being bundled is actually a really serious advantage.

Being able to just to "go fmt", without needing any additional tools, is a really great thing about the language.

The only danger that I can see (and it is a big one) is that Python doesn't have the same kind of consistency that go does. It might end up failing just because so many people use Python in such different ways.

worldsayshi

Yes, one advantage is that tools/editors will start to standardize on it. I quite enjoyed the seamless experience of go formatting as I started learning go. It felt like one less thing to worry about. Just worked.

chippiewill

I've been waiting.

uv is trying to deliver the same experience as cargo does for rust. Just install a single CLI and it's the only tool you have to worry about when working on your Python project.

There's nothing wrong with `ruff format`, but it's nice to have `uv` as a universal entrypoint.

mintplant

Well, the same functionality used to be bundled into rye before the switch to uv. I appreciate having one less dependency to declare again.

amanzi

It wouldn't surprise me if the ruff featurset eventually gets integrated into uv and ty. The linting seems to better suited to ty which would be able to provide more intelligent linting since it understands the codebase better. And the formatting seems better suited to uv since that's all about managing your project.

IAmLiterallyAB

ty is already in the same repo as ruff, so integrating seems likely

IshKebab

This is obviously a great move. I don't know why so many commenters here are against making things better. "Can't you just do <this slightly worse thing> already?". Well yes. But it's slightly worse.

Spivak

I think the biggest thing is that it doesn't seem to support other formatters. If my project uses black I don't get to have uv format work for me.

nikisweeting

fwiw `ruff format` includes nearly all the black rules by default / supports a superset of black's options https://astral.sh/blog/the-ruff-formatter

rcarmo

This feels like feature creep. I've been using uv more and more over the past year (mostly because I work with projects that use it) and although I like it and recognize the advantages, it is still not my first choice, and this kind of thing isn't going to help that...

actinium226

What is your first choice?

null

[deleted]

rickydroll

When is UVA going to start handling email?

infamia

Mixing a package manager, (which is needed for prod package installs) with dev-only tooling is analogous to an "attractive nuisance" (not that I'm saying anyone is a child mind). I know Go and Rust do it, but thinking from first principles, it sounds like a bad idea.

kstrauser

It really does sound like a bad idea, and now that I've used cargo a lot, I want a lot more of those bad ideas in my life.

Seriously, if uv becomes to Python what cargo is to Rust, the developer experience for Python is going to be vastly better than before. I've been writing Python professionally for more than 25 years, and getting paid to work around it's crummier parts, and I'm thrilled to be able to throw away all that knowledge and just use uv.

CoderJoshDK

internally, they are working on ty and some of its logic is going to have to call out to uv. I imagine that things like this is being built to experiment with some of the connections and interfaces between tools.

The astral team is pretty responsive to questions and feedback. If this type of change concerns you (as an actual user of the tool) please reach out to them. My big thing right now is integrations with workspaces. And if special case commands is the answer,,, well not ideal but I’ll take it.

calmbonsai

I see zero need for this given that excellent time-testing code formatting tooling options are already available.

This smacks of feature-creep and I won't be incorporating it into any pipelines for the foreseeable future.

charliermarsh

`uv format` is just a front-end for `ruff format`. It isn't introducing a new formatter to the ecosystem or anything like that.

nikisweeting

You realize this is just a shortcut for one of those "time-tested" options, right? ruff format is already widely used.

vovavili

Can't you just do this? Why bundle?

  uvx ruff format .

IshKebab

Because that's a way less obvious command.

dkdcio

that’s a bit slow typically

replygirl

so install ruff?

nikisweeting

As long as it does `ruff check --fix; ruff format` internally and not just one or the other, then I'm happy. Tired of running 2 commands every time.

0cf8612b2e1e

Also needs to make sorting imports a default.

nikisweeting

and stop removing extra leading whitespace before inline comments (#7684)

zahlman

FWIW, you can pretty easily script this sort of thing. In Bash it can even be a function added to your ~/.bashrc .

nikisweeting

Of course we already have it automated in pre-commit checks, I'm just mildly annoyed that it's two different commands in the first place (though I'm sure there is some good historical reason). The distinction/ordering between them isn't really clear as a user, I just want "find and fix everything you can, error if you cant autofix" every time.

IshKebab

Just so you know, when people say "I hate this paper cut", they aren't really asking how they can put in extra work to get around it. Obviously hey can add some alias to ~/.bashrc... on every computer he uses. The complaint is that he has to do that in the first place. It's still annoying.

zahlman

I prefer having things this way, because it respects the fact that I may have a different idea from the next person about how the pieces should be put together.