Starbucks in Korea asks customers to stop bringing in printers/desktop computers
231 comments
·August 11, 2025samschooler
warebrew
That's absolutly crazy
ge96
wonder if you can bring a tent inside and camp
petcat
I understand it's tongue-in-cheek, but you're actually describing a real problem Starbucks and other casual-style restaurants (McDonalds) have in Seattle. The downtown business districts are almost completely overrun by homelessness and many places in the area have stopped offering seating and only offer counter pick-up and standing tables/rails.
dismalaf
Homeless people do it all the time in certain cities. And because judges won't jail them for crimes police have stopped trying.
pm90
How will jailing them help? Now the public is on the hook for them. Plus, more jails will be needed if you wanna move all the unhoused in there.
Maybe its easier just to build more housing.
codedokode
Interesting. Can a tourist set up a tent in New York City in order to not pay ridiculous hotel fees or this is allowed only to citizens?
kzrdude
That must be a tablet made to look like a desktop setup right?
Arnavion
Could be a monitor with a mini PC on the back.
reaperducer
Reminds me a bit of when TPUG in Toronto used to set up entire Commodore PET rigs in coffee shops.
For reference, a Commodore PET weighs about 25 pounds, and is the size of a toilet bowl.
Double all that if you want to use a floppy disk.
mcculley
Having used a Commdore PET, I cannot stop laughing at this size comparison.
It reminds of the observation that some people will go to great lengths to avoid the metric system.
rcpt
Imagine you can get up to the bathroom and nobody steals your monitor
codedokode
The words "steal" and "bathroom" reminded me of a funny case when hand dryers started disappearing in bathrooms of several shopping malls in a large Russian city. In all cases, there was the same person with a large bag filmed nearby, but as there is no camera inside, it is difficult to understand if he did anything or not. Guess unsupervised tablet (aka "monitor") would not stay there for long.
petre
Well, Russians stole washing machines from Ukraine, of course they also steal other smaller appliances as well.
mock-possum
Bizzare entitlement
testing22321
People wishing they had a public place they could spend time is entitlement now?
A generation ago it was extremely widespread and taken for granted, now we’ve lost our “third places”
urbandw311er
I think it’s quite a stretch for you to interpret the parent comment like that. Surely they’re referring to people’s entitled behaviour in this private space.
nradov
A generation ago we didn't have public third places where people could plug in a desktop computer and printer.
mvdtnz
They're not "wishing" they're just "taking". And yes that's kind of definitionally entitlement.
Nifty3929
Free, common-use things are awesome - until the tragedy of the commons sets in and ruins it for everybody. This is true of so many things that start free and then later require payment. And everybody gets mad about it.
stockresearcher
Chicago has "residential zone parking" for the areas of the city that are primarily residential. For $30 per year per car, you get to park on the street in your local zone (2-3 city blocks). Nobody else is allowed to park on the street in that zone. For visitors, you can buy a sheet of stickers for $1 per sticker that enable 1 day of parking. But you can't buy more than 3 sheets in a month (they keep track).
I've always wondered why NYC and other big cities don't do this. It costs so little, yet makes it much easier to park where you live.
paxys
Density. If you paid for a parking permit then there's some expectation that a parking spot will be available for you near your house. Except in NYC residents outnumber parking spots 20:1 in some neighborhoods.
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throwaway-blaze
Seattle has this. 2hr parking if you dont have an residential parking zone registration for your car (it's based on license plate).
Surprisingly they charge $190/yr per car for this.
kjkjadksj
Residents love these policies but local businesses tend to hate them.
stockresearcher
Business zones (IE arterial streets) use metered parking
jameslk
Tragedy of the commons is caused by out of sync motives. Like a mismatch in protocols that people speak, which is partially explained by culture and upbringing (only partially of course). That is, tragedy of the commons is a symptom not a cause. Not something that happens just by virtue of something being a part of the commons. The more people you have, the more opportunity for those to be out of sync too
In the case of the coffee shop concept, I’d speculate since there’s not hundreds or thousands of years of history in Korea to establish a proper protocol for what is acceptable to do in a coffee shop, anything goes. Until Starbucks can establish from an early age that coffee drinking as the only culturally appropriate thing you should be doing in a coffee shop, and you may feel morally corrupt, be socially ostracized, or go to hell for your sins otherwise
_aavaa_
Except a space owned by corporation is not a commons. It’s not free and not controlled by the people who use it.
It is designed and completely controlled by a for profit corporation for the purpose of making profit.
xg15
At this point I wonder why Starbucks hasn't diversified and started building actual coworking spaces in addition to coffee shops. They look like they should be in an ideal position for that.
eqvinox
They'd have to charge people for using those, which people won't be eager to. The point of coffee shops in this regard is that the use as free coworking space is "parasitic" on the space being financed by the café business.
HSO
they could integrate it with their loyalty points system, whatever it was called, starbucks card or sth
either pay with points, or get a cheaper rate for points, or even get points if you pay normal for the cowirking space
the card could also double as a validator, either for the reserved space or as a key card to a closed one, saving on in-store admin work
if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
clearly there is a demand for quick and informal working space, instead of a formal, multi month tenant agreement with one limited provider
just go to any store location, and in case of need, pay an hourly rate with your coffee to get a seat
pvtmert
not trying to be sarcastic but;
> if i were starbucks, i would 100% try this
which is why you _are_ not starbucks
—
imagine the multitude of laws and regulations in multitude of countries, if you offer co-working space, then you must also register as a landlord, handle mails (not the electronic ones, physical mails), business registrations, etc.
there will be people who would want to stay in after-hours, even if the store is not open. obviously they are paying the rent, hence they have the right to do so.
people will reserve tables/seats, what happens if it's over-booked? there are certain "cool" locations which are extremely busy hot-spots meanwhile others are pretty chill...
HSO
PS. they could even apply surge pricing for this. in fact they should.
jerlam
There was a thread about this exact situation a week ago:
MetaWhirledPeas
I wonder how often they try large floor plans. Most Starbucks I see try to keep things small. What happens if you make it a bit larger, like a small library? I wonder if the increase in foot traffic and sales would offset the cost of extra real estate. They could keep it free, but also somewhat cross over into coworking.
bluedino
That's a Barnes and Noble
proudly serving Starbucks coffee
pvtmert
simply, even cleaning and keeping it tidy is a quadratic equation compared to the space available. people leave their garbage behind or spill their coffee, making a single table somewhat unusable for some time. there are already min. number of employees, mostly busy at the bar. having extra space equals requiring more hands for cleaning, hence cost not linearly increasing but quadratic with the square meter.
another thing is, if the space gets full, people get out anyway, but chance to buy stuff.
for example, let's see there are 2 empty tables right now, you get in to the line, there are 6 people in the queue. imagine 3 of them somewhat occupies the those 2 empty tables, even if you resign the idea of getting coffee, i guarantee you that at least 1 of the other 2 would still get coffee but just move to a nearby park or bench. which starbucks obviously does not pay the rent for...
rcpt
It's like parking, if it's free people will take all of it quickly
willsmith72
(as long as the campers are considerate) it's also low cost. even prime location starbucks have large lull periods through the day, prime for campers, even though only spending $5-10.
when people feel entitled to take up 2 spaces for hours while families roam for seats is when it's too far
reaperducer
The point of coffee shops in this regard is that the use as free coworking space
Incidentally, back when I was doing startups, there were free coworking spaces in the under-utilized portions of the Seattle convention center. Big, squishy chairs, fast wifi, and power ports galore.
It was like a self-service micro tech incubator, and helped me bootstrap a company that lasted over a decade. The State of Washington more than got its money back in taxes.
xkcd1963
Idk. Anti-Cafés are popular some of them specialice in exactly that, being a coffee with coworking/studying atmosphere. It works for them
tmm
This one[1] has a meeting space that can be closed off from the rest of the store, with a TV or projector, and I’m pretty sure they’ve got a copier or at least an all-in-one printer.
FateOfNations
Our local Panera has this. It's popular with the MLM ladies.
pm90
Ive seen some coffee shops do this, where part of the space is a “coworking area”.
I imagine it requires a bit more capital investment and knowhow; I get the feeling that franchisees don’t have a lot of freedom.
Some Korean coffee shops should try this though!
jiehong
Or maybe Starbucks should install a common printer with a fee?
The large items policy still makes sense, though
cm2187
Is that a business they even want, someone occupying a seat for 8 hours only to consume two coffees?
PaulRobinson
They'd rather that than an empty seat, especially if that person is turning up 5-6 days/week.
Most coffee shops where I live (London, UK, specifically out in West London) are at best 20% full through most of the day, that's a lot of dead real estate not paying for itself.
When I tried working out of coffee shops a bit some years ago the "etiquette" seemed to be ~1 drink/hour to pay for your seat. I don't like coffee that much, so was consuming more like 0.66/hour (i.e. around 2 drinks every 3 hours), and people were fine with that, as it was effectively a rent payment of £20/day, or £100/week, which is a little under what a hotdesk would cost me in the same area but with a lot more flexibility (never pay for idle!), and of course its good margin sales for them.
Of course, they could just say "no laptops". There's a pub chain in the UK that did that (Sam Smith's - no screens, no swearing), but the rule is not widely followed or enforced and where it is the pubs are empty far more than the ones that welcome customers.
victorbjorklund
Obviously some coffee shops are gonna want that but some coffee shops are making all their money by selling to customers during short periods in the morning, lunch and maybe in the afternoon and if this person is sitting there blocking the chair that could be used by many customers during the time the total of two cups of coffee will be less than what they are losing from not being able to serve those customers. Of course for some coffee shops they are never full and they probably benefit from this and they would love to have those type of customers.
terribleperson
I believe there was an HN article recently about a business that provides a service to cafes to formalize that rent agreement. Spend a certain amount (e.g. 8 euros every 3 hours) or you lose wifi access.
mvdtnz
The problem isn't your one coffee an hour during the lull of the day. It's you taking up a table at lunchtime that could be occupied by 4 customers who will outspend your entire day by several times over. Sure the place is mostly empty for most of the day but your cheap ass is taking a seat during the precious hours where they make their profit.
gambiting
>> but the rule is not widely followed or enforced and where it is the pubs are empty far more than the ones that welcome customers.
I mean, I went to one in SOHO and it was packed and indeed, no one was on their phone and people were being actively told off if they used a phone. That was nice. The fact that I paid £9 for a pint was much less nice though.
tr81
Customers attract customers. Even if some customers are not spending a lot of money, they bring in other customers who more than make up for them. This is the reason why so many coffee shops go out of their way to provide power outlets near every table.
MetaWhirledPeas
They want people, but I think a printer crosses the line. It's a Starbucks not a Kinko's.
whstl
It's even worse, I don't think you can bring your own printer to a Kinko's.
aianus
When I worked out of free co-working spaces in Asia I would buy lunch and breakfast from them too, both to socialize with other patrons and to not lose my seat.
ericcumbee
I work from a coffee shop a good bit. They don’t care for the most part. Assuming you tip reasonably, be nice to the staff, don’t be annoying, don’t negatively impact the other customers, be helpful when the occasion calls for it.
pengaru
I presume it's highly subjective.
For a busy cafe that's always short on seating and struggles to keep up with fulfilling orders, they want nothing to do with laptop squatters.
Every other case I imagine it's desirable to have at least some regulars presumably employed enough to be working from a cafe using modern tech.
One common problem I've noticed is van lifers and other quasi homeless folks spending ~zero money stinking up the place just for the free power and internet.
Now that battery life and cell-tethered internet is so good, some of my favorite urban cafes have adopted a no-outlets no-wifi approach, while still having tons of seating and allowing folks to be present with their computers all day. They just have to provide their own internet and power, which serves to exclude the true parasites while selecting for folks with $$ to spend because they have state of the art gadgets with their own unlimited data plans.
sschueller
That will ruin them at $1,500 to $2,000 per litre of ink...
unglaublich
They could provide Starbucks branded ink of which 95% of the cost is licensing fees which they pay out tax-free to themselves.
codeulike
They could scribble each customers name on the printouts with a sharpie
"Got a flat black and white parking ticket appeal form for Kim"
krogenx
Maybe they could do some R&D to see if coffee could be used as ink.
londons_explore
I just put coffee in my printer to see...
It kinda works, but the printouts are very faint.
I was expecting it to clog immediately (the jets are ~10um), but it didn't.
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PeterStuer
If this is such a pervasive problem you'd think the article would have had no problem sourcing a photo of this instead of some generic phone ogling group?
knubie
I've been living in Seoul for a few months now and often work out of different Starbucks and have never seen anything like this here. I spent a similar amount of time in Seattle and saw much "worse" set ups at the coffee shops there.
rich_sasha
Cafes provide two distinct products, usually bundled into one: seat rental and food/drink.
How about charge separately for each? I get that it would be awkward to try, but why not.
mrtksn
Or have actual public places? The Cafe's are there to serve coffee, it's just courtesy as business model to let you hang around in the premises and when the business model starts to fail in some way they adjust it.
After university, the most I miss is the actual places that are mine to use and are made for hanging around or working and not necessarily consuming anything.
onlyrealcuzzo
> After university, the most I miss is the actual places that are mine to use and are made for hanging around or working and not necessarily consuming anything.
You just pre-paid for the consumption in your tuition fees.
pvtmert
outside of USA, i do not think that's true,
given the OP nickname is mrtksn, I presume he is a Turkish person. There are many public (ie. govt. funded) universities in Turkey. Except various touristic places in Istanbul, it would also be possible to "hangout" for an hour in many of smaller cities. Obviously this is degrading as the cities are getting more crowded. Although, most shopping malls having food-court with a "public" area. (ie. An area that belongs to none of the food places, but the shopping mall itself) You could just coast there from 10am in the morning until 10pm in the evening, with free-wifi and no drinks.
Similarly, in Europe, some coffee shops kind of span to the street benches or the window-side seating. For the window-side (outside), you may not be able to sit there for an hour or so, but definitely coastable about 30 minutes. (ie waiting for someone). Meanwhile, public areas are always free-for-all, if the WIFI works, then for sure you can coast all day...
mrtksn
Well, then it was a great deal. Significantly better than what I'm getting for renting a table with a coffee for hour or two for $5.
cmavvv
> The Cafe's are there to serve coffee, it's just courtesy as business model to let you hang around
Traditionally it's the other way around, the drink is a by-product of a public house where people can gather. Could you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to drink and leave?
mrtksn
How does this work? Were these public houses literally owned by the public and someone noticed that they may sell something there? AFAIK it's more like people opening their premises to outsiders to hang around and sell them stuff.
sandworm101
> can you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to drink and leave?
That is what a "bar" was invented to do. In the old public house, patrons would remain seated and the alcohol was brought to them. A heavy drinker would drink until they couldnt walk, but would still occupy a chair. Then the "bar" was invented. Patrons now come to the alcohol and will generally depart before becoming legless. A single bartender can now dish out far more alcohol per hour than any table server. That didnt exist as a concept until a couple hundred years ago.
Proper sushi "bars" follow the same pattern. You eat solo, often with curtains between individual patrons. You eat fast. Then you leave. You dont hang around for a chat.
NuclearPM
> Could you imagine a bar where people are just supposed to drink and leave?
Yes.
tomjen3
Local Library?
wodenokoto
Japanese Manga Cafes / Internet Cafes give you all you can drink coffee and tea for hourly pricing, and usually comes with a PC and a private booth. I'm not sure how much of a thing they still are though, but they were big in the 2000s and early 10s
mvdwoord
This is what we had all over the world (...) when Internet Cafes were a thing. Perhaps they should come back?
nicoburns
The "Santander Work Cafes" (https://www.santanderbank.com/workcafe/cafe) are an excellent implementation of this.
johnisgood
Most developers could not really do their own thing on a PC/laptop that is not theirs.
Are they supposed to set up their development environment each time?
rich_sasha
How interesting - so the other extreme. 0 cost on drinks, 100% time in seat cost.
stby
Newer Coworking places generally seem to have some Starbucks-vibes, but AFAIK they are not doing to well.
Maybe the price of a coffee is exactly what people are willing to pay for a seat, a small table, and wifi for some hours.
mathiaspoint
I haven't seen a coworking place that isn't insanely overpriced compared to a coffee shop so it's no surprise they're not doing well.
mhitza
In my experience price isn't the only issue. One of the (smaller) coworking spaces I can have access to locally, closes at 6pm while a coffee shop at around 9-10PM and it's also open on weekends.
But then again, I find working in coffee shops too distracting, so work from home and randomly popping into a coworking space now and then.
victorbjorklund
Yeah, but isn't the question whether the co-working place is overpriced or if the coffee shop is underpriced or maybe both?
sersi
I tried wework. The seats were unbelievably uncomfortable. For the low-low price of $500 usd to get a hot seat, it's just much worse than coffeeshops.
currency
Coworking spaces need to colocate with services. Starbucks, Fedex Kinkos, massage chairs....
kmfrk
Last week's submission is a company created to do this, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44811602.
amelius
Are 3d printers allowed?
How about a soldering station?
Or a desktop scanning electron microscope?
postalcoder
Amusingly, those are all available at a cafe i’ve frequented in Seoul.
They’re used as background dressing but they’re also available to use. It’s criminally underused and i’d love to do it but i have no idea what i would make with it.
trenchpilgrim
My friends got into tabletop wargaming last year, we print almost everything.
Also, great for organizers for drawers, tools, etc.
function_seven
All of those sound more reasonable than my Model M keyboard.
seizethecheese
I have soldered in a Starbucks before.
JKCalhoun
I have a water cooler … on wheels. Yes? No?
shinycode
People bring printers to Starbucks… really ? I’m kind of surprised it feels like an abuse to me o_O it would never cross my mind
criddell
Yes, and not only in Korea.
arkh
South Korea is cyber café country. If you open a café there, people expect some specific services.
I guess the fact people come with PCs and printer is a way to demonstrate how they don't want this part of US culture and would like to keep theirs. So either adapt and start offering PC bang in South Korea or go home.
The-Bus
Starbucks Coffee Korea Co. is a Korean company, owned by a Singaporean wealth fund and a Korean company. US Starbucks provides licensing and supplies, nothing more.
So this is a decision by a Korean company, not an American one.
https://stories.starbucks.com/asia/stories/2021/starbucks-tr...
somedude895
Or you know, you could just not go there if you don't like the place rather than be a prick to people who work there and customers who like going there.
shinycode
I agree, following the logic means any customer from any shop can start doing anything regardless of policies and shops just need to adapt just because of my expectations ?
thrown-0825
Hard to do when starbucks is a real estate holding company that sells coffee. They have sucked all the air out of the cafe space and driven out their competitors.
FirmwareBurner
[flagged]
bryanhogan
Having lived in Korea, I have always enjoyed the cafe culture. Starbucks there is known for accepting you to work there. Although I haven't seen anyone bring a printer yet, some do bring extra stuff such as a stand for their laptop that take up a lot of space.
The only thing this article mentions is that Starbucks prohibits people of bringing stuff that would take up more than a single seat, which seems reasonable?
ChrisMarshallNY
I used to travel with a Canon PIXMA printer. Quite portable. Could carry a laptop and printer in a small backpack. The paper was heavy, though.
doublerabbit
What were you printing that required a print to be carried with you?
Personally printing should be banned. The amount of paper waste we create disgraceful.
ChrisMarshallNY
I worked for a Japanese company. Paper is a big deal, there.
Also, I have long subscribed to Tufte's "supergraphic" methodology, when giving presentations.
jdblair
In 2014, in a Starbucks in Los Gatos, CA, I saw someone bring in a (small) desktop PC and a monitor and set it up at a table.
ericcumbee
I’ve seen that as well a few times.
selimthegrim
My roommate claims she saw the same in the Valley (in Sherman Oaks/VN in LA) in 2019
jwr
In Tokyo, coffee shops seem to have embraced the work culture. Tables and seating have been adapted to working, and you often get a receipt with the time when you are expected to leave printed on it. Most (if not all) people in a Tully's in Tokyo are there to work.
kalleboo
Even McDonalds has seats with power outlets, I mostly see groups of students studying rather than people working.
eswat
Seoul is similar. Many Twosome Places have study desks and some of the chains known for small footprint also have bigger locations for meetings and work (Ediya Coffee Lab).
I never understood why people who are frugal would go to Starbucks in Korea to work, when local chains are beside them, have cheaper drinks and their desk/chair setups are less hostile to working.
zippyman55
In my town, this one guy, set up his whole kit. 25” monitor, gaming setup. Disk drives. And then he could be there for 13 hrs a day. A little extreme!
There is a photo in the Korea Herald article linked in op's article. https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10550038