Major rule about cooking meat turns out to be wrong
256 comments
·July 23, 2025metabagel
flaminHotSpeedo
The article categorically refutes the idea that resting is important for juiciness but that's not the same as saying resting will not improve juice retention. Proof that a relationship once though to be causal is not is a pretty big deal, and the conventional wisdom is wrong.
As a counterexample: let's say the only things I care about are juiciness of the center of the cut of meat and the time it takes me to make it. By the conventional wisdom I'd have to rest the meat, adding time, but now we know that I could simply keep cooking the meat for longer, since that will raise the center temp faster, and then cut it immediately after cooking.
Or another scenario: if I know the precise internal temperature for my preferred level of juiciness, I know exactly what temperature to set a sous vide to.
Dylan16807
Someone that only cares about juiciness at the center, and doesn't care how much is lost from the rest of the meat, sounds pretty unrealistic to me. If you keep pouring in heat until the last moment everything outside the center will be much hotter and lose much more juice.
flaminHotSpeedo
That depends on the heat applied. Which brings up another good counterexample: knowing this, someone could cook longer at a lower temp to get a juicer edge for the same juiciness center.
hug
There are many ways to cook a steak, and what you say doesn’t hold true for the way I cook it, which is a reverse sear, and in fact the Serious Eats article even mentions that a rest is unnecessary: https://www.seriouseats.com/reverse-seared-steak-recipe
Sous vide steak, as mentioned by your parent post, is similar.
safety1st
That's an inaccurate and unnecessarily critical take on the article.
First, at the end of the article he does a taste test. In the taste test no one was able to tell whether the meat had been rested or not, so that's a reason you might not want to bother resting meat.
Second, yes he devotes a lot of the article to the discovery that juice retention is happening for different reasons than we thought. To quote him directly, he thinks this is important because "Food and recipe writers like myself have been dispensing inaccurate meat-resting time and temperature guidance for ages." If you choose to continue resting your meat, as many will, these insights provide you with better guidance in terms of how you should do it.
As a home cook, the taste test is convincing enough to me that if I'm making food for myself, I should probably skip the resting stage, focus on other taste factors, and see how it goes, as I'm always happy to save 10 minutes and taste is rather subjective anyway. A professional or commercial chef will likely have a very different but no less useful takeaway from this article.
All this to say, it was a great article and the headline's not clickbait.
chasebank
"Resting allows the temperature to drop, which creates less pressure, so the juices aren't forced out of the meat nearly as strongly."
I was always under the impression that if you pull your meat at let's say 128, resting it will bring the internal temperature up, finishing at like 132-134. Is this wrong?
linsomniac
Note the article explained: "leading to an overall cooling even as the center warmed", that's what I think you are missing above. If the internal temp comes up to 132, but the exterior drops to 95...
twelvechairs
Overall the steak is cooling (as the outside air is cooler). At the centre of the steak the temperature will go up first (as heat from the outside of the steak which has been in contact with the pan transfers in) then down again.
NamTaf
Unless I’m mistaken (and that’s quite possible!), this should be trivial to test. Sous vide some meat for an overly long time to a precise temperature, then cut each piece at set intervals.
0x457
Well, yes, as soon as you take meat off the heat, temperature continues to raise for some time, but it starts dropping off during the rest period.
I cook til 125F, take it off, let it rest, cut. I have a probe that measures it in multiple points, allowing it to more accurately estimate core and surface temperature.
There are so many cases like this in cooking because no one bothered to actually test validate science as long as it produced claimed results (i.e. juicy steak in this case)
gerdesj
"I was always under the impression that if you pull your meat at let's say 128"
Please state units. In en_GB (at least) "pulling your meat" is ... ambiguous.
phs318u
Off topic, and please forgive the way my mind works, but having read your comment I couldn't help thinking that the interpretive ambiguity would be resolved if the unit stated was "pulls" per minute (128 ppm while vigorous, is still plausible).
DrewADesign
In steak/chop sized pieces, carry-over cooking of the center finishes very quickly. If you get a really fast probe thermometer like a thermapen, you can watch it in real time. The entire piece will have cooled sufficiently after common resting times (e.g. 10 minutes.)
fsckboy
ambiguous? I'll take the compliment, but there is no "us"
gosub100
what if I am feeding the geese? how do I disambiguate that one?
bmurphy1976
It's not wrong, it's incomplete. It will briefly bring the temperature up as everything stabilizes but then it will start going back down. How quickly is entirely dependent on the environment it's in as well. Keep it in a warming oven? It's gonna a be a much slower process than sitting on a cool countertop.
bookofjoe
"It's not even wrong." — Wolfgang Pauli
ketzo
That is indeed exactly what the article says — I’m not certain GP is right on this.
Kenji’s original tests seem to confound this as well: every 2.5min of slicing produces steadily less juice, despite the fact that the steak’s internal temp should be rising for some of that time.
nerdsniper
“Internal” temperatures are measured near a single point. Some internal, watery, parts will be hotter than other internal, watery, parts. On average, the temperature goes down over time even if it increases in some local parts.
So the average pressure will decrease.
(Yes, for an ideal cavity, pressure is equal everywhere, but for meat which contains highly tortured paths and a three-phase state mixture for the vapors to escape from - there can be different pressures in different areas especially once there’s any flow at all)
null
pinoy420
[dead]
UncleMeat
Resting increases internal temperature. Immediately after you take the meat off the heat it'll have a cooler internal temperature than after five minutes of resting. The crust of the meat is much hotter than the core and heat moves from the outside to the inside during resting.
x2tyfi
This is true. But OPs point - while a bit hidden - is that even more rest will result in the temperature lowering, eventually.
And when you achieve that was-lower-then-higher-but-now-lower-again temperature, it should be more juicy
bigbuppo
In other words, the real reason to let it rest is to let it finish cooking.
stevenhuang
Unless it's already cooked, and this extra time spent resting will overcook it, resulting in the meat becoming drier, however imperceptible.
Funes-
>The title is click-bait.
Click-bait!? On HN's frontpage? Oh, say it ain't so!
x2tyfi
This is a good point, and highlights that there’s an additional variable somewhat out of scope from this test.
1. finish temperature (as mentioned in this article) 2. peak temperature
In these tests, the finish temperature and peak temperature were the same - he sliced while carryover cooking was still climbing. However, when resting, most people achieve a peak temperature (due to carryover cooking), then roll down the other side of the curve to a lowered temperature.
As you imply, a longer rest - in conjunction with protein pulled at just the right time - can likely result with both the perfect (to taste) peak temperature, and a lower (and more juicy) slicing temperature
woooooo
Wouldn't thickening of juices also be temperature- rather than time-dependent? Fats and collagens melt at specific temperatures.
I always thought the whole point of resting is to do with temperature rather than time.
ezoe
The article conduct rested vs not rested test and testers are inconsistent on which is juicier.
jerf
This is sort of a neat microcosm of the story of the interaction of science and engineering over time.
The original meat resting rules were essentially engineering, when it is forced to run significantly in advance of science, in this case due to lack of sufficiently accurate measurement tools (instant-read themometers that can be left in the meat). They were discovered ad-hoc. They worked. But the theories behind them turned out to be incorrect.
Thermometers improved, the ability to control the cooking environment improved, and experiments could be run that contradicted the old theories about why it worked, and led to an improved methodology that could be used with more equipment.
This in turns leads to engineering better meals, even if only from the point of view of doing somewhat less work to the same result.
And the wheel will keep turning.
tptacek
Interesting take, true-ish I think? But Meathead had this right, as I recall from first principles (his writing partner at the time was a physicist), I think without the measurement apparatus.
rsyring
Yep, way back in 2013:
https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cook...
brudgers
microcosm of the story of the interaction of science and engineering over time.
Science requires measurement. Engineering requires cost benefit analysis.
Rules for resting meat are more like religion than science or engineering…resting meat is a morality play of socially acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Eating without resting is labeled crass because it is the sort of thing a starving peasant might do.
That’s how the results can be contrary to tradition.
b_e_n_t_o_n
I prefer the term "impatient peasant".
brudgers
Seeing as patience is a virtue, did you intentionally make my point?
b_e_n_t_o_n
I love this.
twodave
I cook (and eat) a lot of steak. Probably 3-4 per week, 1.5" thick ribeyes. For me, resting has always been about temperature normalization.
I like to sear my steaks in a cast iron skillet. I use an induction cooktop and tend to start at medium-high and ramp up to as hot as the stove will get. I think the ramp-up is important to render some of the fat without just letting it all evaporate.
I turn the steaks over frequently (30s intervals), which keeps the inside from cooking too much while the outside gets nice and crispy. I take them off the heat probably 2-3 minutes (but keep flipping! The pan is still really damn hot) before they go into the oven (at 400F).
I take the steaks out when they hit 120 and pull them out of the pan ASAP.
During the “rest” that follows I add pepper and butter to the tops of the steaks. The outsides of these steaks become way, way hotter than the insides. But the size of the layer that is so hot is very thin due to the frequent turning. So they don’t need to rest long, and the temp doesn’t rise too much once they’re out of the oven.
pillefitz
Aren't you worried about the health impacts of eating steak that frequently?
pizzafeelsright
May I ask how you came to the conclusion that eating steak may have health concerns?
Who determines the diet for sharks or gorillas?
genocidicbunny
It varies between individuals, but there are absolutely cases where steak and other red meats can have health concerns. Hemochromatosis is one that immediately comes to mind.
benhurmarcel
Probably should be more worried about the environmental impact
wallst07
Why is that a concern exactly? Why does every decision need an environmental impact? How do you know he doesn't plant a tree for every steak he eats?
twodave
Not specifically, no. I think the benefits for me personally outweigh the risks, anyway. Everyone's physiology is different, so I don't expect everyone else to eat the way I do.
ddorian43
It is actually the reverse. Keto & carnivore(with only fatty read meat) is the best. If you have diseases like diabetes/epilepsy/mental-illness/food-addiction/etc it (may) help a lot. I eat 6-7 days/week red meat.
Source: I do ketovore for 2.5+ years.
hnfong
FWIW, I hear there could be issues with (too much) iron especially for men.
At any rate, do be aware that human biology is quite diverse and diets that work for one may not work for others.
pillefitz
It's for sure not the "reverse", even if for some people with certain diseases the benefits may outweigh the risks. It's undeniably linked to certain cancers and arteriosclerosis
Antipode
That directly contradicts everything I've ever read about high red meat consumption. Are there reputable studies that back this up?
noahjk
How long does the steak generally stay in the pan to sear? Have to ever tried reverse searing instead (which I believe is just oven first)?
twodave
About 5-7 minutes, tops. I haven't tried the reverse sear, I'd worry about overcooking.
Thaliana
I'd highly recomend you give reverse sear a go. It definitely works best with thick steaks but a nice low oven temp 120C (250F) and pull when the steak is 40C (120F), then into a ripping hot pan with oil in it gives a fantastic sear.
I'm not suggesting it's better than your method or anything but well worth trying imo!
bigmadshoe
You just set the oven super low and cook it until it’s a certain amount under (I forget, maybe 30F under). It’s honestly probably easier to overcook by your method. You get an even better crust because all the surface moisture has evaporated in the oven before it hits the pan.
dataviz1000
"Searing the meat seals in the juices" -- every chef on every cooking show.
Can we do a study on that too?
hmmmmm. I want to grill two steaks, the same size, and to the same internal temperature on the same grill. Let one rest for ten minutes in a pie pan and cut the other into 4 pieces letting it also rest for ten minutes in a pie pan. Probably also wrap them in tinfoil. Then weigh the released juices at the end.
There is a huge difference between eating a steak that has rested allowing the vapor pressure decrease vs one that hasn't rested even though the internal temperatures in the middle are the same.
edit: I found a video of the experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYA8H8KaLNg
CGMthrowaway
Real cooks know the point of the sear is to create browning (maillard). Anyone who says otherwise either doesn't understand or is just speaking to a basic audience
misja111
> "Searing the meat seals in the juices" -- every chef on every cooking show.
This was debunked a long time ago. You do want to sear the meat, but only to give it a nice and tasty brown crust due to Maillard reactions. Searing does not seal in any juices.
I can recommend the book Cooking for Geeks, it has some nice scientific explanations about this and some other stuff too.
roelschroeven
Or "On Food And Cooking: The Science And Lore Of The Kitchen" by Harold McGee.
jghn
> "Searing the meat seals in the juices" -- every chef on every cooking show.
I could be wrong on this but I think Kenji was the first prominent writer to debunk this. I bring it up given the context of who all we're talking about.
tnorthcutt
I think Alton Brown covered this on his show Good Eats quite a few years ago as well.
marcusb
And Meathead over at Amazing Ribs[0]. Their explanation[1] for the "stall" (evaporative cooling) in smoking large cuts of meat is great as well.
0 - https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cook...
1 - https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cook...
jameslk
> "Searing the meat seals in the juices" -- every chef on every cooking show.
This is debunked. See myth #2 and #4 here:
https://www.seriouseats.com/old-wives-tales-about-cooking-st...
fsckboy
I'm not arguing in favor of "searing is sealing", but that whole article is trash imho. I can see flaws in every empirical test he sets up. (ok, not every one, i quit reading in horror after I read a few)
cauterizing a wound, btw, does seal in the juice.
Hikikomori
Chris young is great. Serious eats from the linked article also has some tests of this.
post_break
Sous Vide taught me resting meet was a farce. There's zero rest time when cooking that way, and it causes the meat, especially steak, to come out perfect every single time. There's a reason why it's pretty much banned in most cooking competitions.
nkrisc
> There's a reason why it's pretty much banned in most cooking competitions.
In what competitions is it banned? There’s a lot more to an award winning plate than just a perfectly cooked steak.
If you mean those TV shows, then I would speculate it has more to do with being slow and boring to watch.
teaearlgraycold
Compared to a gas stove flaring up in streams of salty meat juice you can imagine a tremendous difference in audience appeal.
0x457
Just wait until chef pulls out a flamethrower to make a gray slob of meat into a delicious steak.
ipsum2
Resting meat is needed if you don't use sous vide, because of the temperature differential in the inside and surface.
jghn
Reverse sear is a similar situation, but not sous-vide.
tptacek
What cooking competitions ban sous-vide/low-temp cooking?
inasio
I've also heard that sous-vide is typically banned in BBQ competitions. A quick google search did find some examples to support it:
https://www.texoassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/O...
psunavy03
That's like saying jet engines are banned in IndyCar. Umm . . . yeah? Because they're competing to see who makes the best SMOKED meat, and sous vide would be using the wrong cooking technique.
post_break
Pretty much all rib cooking competitions ban it.
tptacek
I would be shocked if you could win a rib competition with sous vide ribs. I've done them a bunch of times. They're fine. They're not revelatory.
0cf8612b2e1e
Weird. Most cooking is about temperature control. Funny thing to ban the technique which is so effective.
lizardking
You don't need to rest slow cooked meat. That's the difference
reddit_clone
I am really interested in Sous Vide cooking. But cooking meat in plastic bags turns me off.
bongodongobob
I work with someone who does national steak cooking competitions to the level where he has sponsorships. They sous vide.
sakisv
The "major rule" in question is whether you should rest the meat after cooking or not.
stronglikedan
The major rule was resting meat for a duration of time, not whether or not it should be done. The article still suggests resting meat.
pixl97
Rest it to temp, not time.
GLdRH
Also it's not wrong, but actually right
Havoc
Steak technique is to men what astrology is to teenage girls.
tuna74
Just a random tip: When I rest meat I put it on a mesh and keep it in the oven set to 50 degrees Celsius. That have given me pretty good results I feel and then you can finish off whatever else you want to do after cooking the meat (like vegetables or sauce from the same pan).
CGMthrowaway
I have a warming drawer in my kitchen that is always at about that temp. It's perfect for keeping prepared food warm while I do another dish, or for warming plates in there on which I will serve hot food
grymoire1
Summary: The temperature will continue to rise after removing meat from a grill. The thicker the meat, the more temperature is retained. You want the cut the meat when the proper temperature is reached.
So if the meat is at the target temperature - slice it right away. If the temperature is below the target temp, and the meat is thick, wait until the target temperature is reached, then slice it.
The trick is knowing how thick the meat is, how much the temperature will continue to rise after removal, and therefore when to remove the meat.
linsomniac
A trick I've been doing since I got the Combusion thermometer is, if I'm trying for a 205 temp target: I run it until the surface temp reaches 205, then turn down the heat to get the ambient temp to around 205 for the rest of the cook until the interior gets up to 205. I've tried it a couple times and had really great results.
djfivyvusn
As someone who watched this unfold months ago on YouTube I'm slightly annoyed I had to read the whole article to find nothing new.
giraffe_lady
Yeah makes sense, fits with how I was taught working in serious kitchens too. People will have different justifications for it or models for how it works but professional cooks generally take resting pretty seriously especially for bigger pieces of meat.
I don't really like the article title though, the rule seems pretty much correct?
> Carryover cooking is greatly underestimated in both its speed and degree, and this has a huge impact on whether resting meat does or does not work well.
That has long been my main reason for doing it and my guide for how long to rest. Until the carryover has nearly or just stopped and the internal temp is about to or has just begun dropping. For thin skirt steak or grilled shrimp this could be about as long as it takes to walk inside, for a pork shoulder or standing rib roast it might be nearly an hour.
Also long been understood that there's no benefit to resting sous vide meat, since there's no carryover to manage.
tptacek
Note that a major point in this article is a pretty serious team of cooks (the Meathead folks are competition BBQ people) arguing against resting (but cooking in such a way that resting doesn't matter).
huhtenberg
> the Meathead folks
Meathead is a singular dude who runs amazingribs.com. Wrote a good book too [1].
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Meathead-Science-Great-Barbecue-Grill...
tptacek
The book is great; the writing we're talking about though is multiple people's work (Goldwyn and Greg Blonder).
mvdtnz
The resting hysteria in low and slow BBQ has gotten out of control. Many BBQ YouTubers now promote overnight resting, I've even seen some suggesting a two day rest. I'm glad to see some sanity returning.
tptacek
Hold up, the Meathead thing wasn't about low-and-slow. For brisket and shoulder, Meathead wants you to rest for an hour in an insulated container.
tcskeptic
Completely different style and purpose of resting. The long hot rest is for fat and collagen rendering. Nothing like this kind of rest after high temperature grilling or roasting.
GLdRH
the slower the cook, the better the beef optimal is 40°C for three weeks
giraffe_lady
Yeah I just clicked through and realized I've read that article several times over the years. It's old and quite well known in certain parts of the food world. Now that I know that, is there anything new in this serious eats one? Is it just a verification of the meathead OG?
tptacek
It's kind of a counterpoint to it! Meathead actively advocates against resting; Gritzer argues for a cooking method that relies on carryover time and thus resting to slice at target temps. Both Meathead and Gritzer agree that moisture retention is not the reason to rest, and since there's a lot of pop science out there (complete with animations and physical models) for why moisture loss demands resting, it seems worth writing about.
Gritzer actually ran a relatively serious tasting experiment for this article, though I'm not sure how much it mattered to the point he's making.
pitpatagain
It is not. Much of the SE article is about testing a newer hypothesis that the amount of juice loss on slicing is entirely explained by the temp of the meat at the moment of slicing, and that the various other explanations for what resting does are irrelevant.
The meathead article argues: - Resting doesn't change perceived juiciness the way you think it does. - Meat that you will slice on your plate continues cooking on plate. - Therefore recommends just cook to temp and dive in and don't do any traditional rest.
The Serious Eats article: - Tests the temp at slicing theory. - Says this means that appropriate resting time only has to do with aligning the carryover cook time with the temp you brought it to while cooking with the temp it will be at slicing - Suggests that the real benefit of resting is that it is easier to time and stick the landing with desired temp because of the gradual glide at the end - Therefore recommends: Using a rest, but shorter than traditional, just long enough as appropriate for temp control.
The article actually doesn't refute the idea of resting meat to retain the juices. In fact, it supports it. It just provides a reason for why this works which is perhaps different than conventional wisdom.
Retaining the juices in the meat has to do with the temperature at which the meat is cut. Resting allows the temperature to drop, which creates less pressure, so the juices aren't forced out of the meat nearly as strongly.
The title is click-bait. The major rule is correct, not wrong. But, now we know a little bit more about why this rule works.
> As the meat rests (and therefore cools) that vapor pressure decreases, and so does the juice loss. It's not about reabsorption or thickening as the juices cool, which is another common explanation that's been offered over the years. It's simply about pressure. Control for final internal temperature, and—rested or not—the juice loss is the same.