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The Scourge of Arial (2001)

The Scourge of Arial (2001)

17 comments

·July 14, 2025

NaOH

Previously:

The Scourge of Arial (2001) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10538384 - Nov 2015 (26 comments)

esafak

Even in the art department, Microsoft ships a shoddy knockoff...

musicale

So Microsoft's TrueType deal with Apple didn't include the Helvetica TrueType font(s) that Apple included with macOS?

Apple's Geneva seems to be another take on Helvetica, though designed to match the Mac's original bitmap font.

kqr

Well-written. I learned a lot!

Would have been interesting to also see a note about Verdana, and know if Microsoft shifting away from Arial as the default sans serif has changed its popularity as much as one might think.

simondotau

For a while IKEA used Verdana as their corporate typeface, to the howls of despair from font aficionados everywhere.

Personally, I loved it. I think it really encapsulated the idea of it’s so bad that it’s good and really suited the “assembled at home“ vibe.

duskwuff

I don't understand the Verdana hate. It's a decent screen font, especially at low resolutions. It may not be ideal for print, but that isn't what it was designed for.

Y-bar

Wasn't this exactly what people were hating it for? IKEA used it for print and lots of large prints at that, not just pixel displays? I never said or wrote anything about it as far as I can remember, but I do think it looked worse than their previous typeface. Verdana is quite okay, if not good even, for body text.

But it looks like they have changed or customised their typeface recently, the digits and letters like "y" do not look like standard Verdana any more.

qu1j0t3

1) Overexposure.

Same problem that Georgia has: Otherwise a very serviceable Matthew Carter design.

2) It's a screen font.

In print and display applications, it really does look gross.

Source: A Friendly neighbourhood typographer

musicale

Verdana is underrated. It's a legible screen font, and I greatly prefer it to the dreadful spindly font (Segoe UI?) that Windows 11 uses.

elevation

These days, Verdana is generally an indicator of either organisational decay or incompetence, especially when used in print, which it wasn’t designed for.

It hasn’t been a default in tools for decades, so it suggests either the organization hasn’t been able to afford to refresh the design for 25 years or the designer is incompetent.

Hate is a strong word, but Verdana is almost certainly the wrong font for your business branding in 2025.

null

[deleted]

Spooky23

It’s very refreshing to read something about typefaces that isn’t glazing the magnificence of Helvetica!

simondotau

Helvetica is like vanilla. Often mischaracterised as plain and “default choice”, when done well it’s a distinct taste all of its own. In the hands of a master chef, it can be spectacular. But the majority of it is low effort and low quality.

qu1j0t3

Yeah basically true; it's described as "neutral" but it absolutely is not.

I have to admit, though, the New Haas revival is so amazingly good that it makes me want to like Helvetica.

WillAdams

Pair this with:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica_(film)

(though it's marred by Arial being passed off for Helvetica in at least one showing)