Skip to content(if available)orjump to list(if available)

Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

69 comments

·June 25, 2025

bob1029

The trick with Microsoft is to very carefully separate the good parts from the bad ones.

Labeling all of Microsoft as banned is really constraining your technology options. This is a gigantic organization with a very diverse set of people in it.

There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situations. There's a reason every AAA game engine depends on it in some way.

Azure and Windows are where things start to get bad with Microsoft.

nordsieck

> There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situations. There's a reason every AAA game engine depends on it in some way.

The reason all the AAA games are on it is because they're on the Windows platform, and more importantly their customers are on the Windows platform.

If 95% of gamers ran MacOS instead of Windows, you'd see a very different tech stack among game developers.

Spooky23

Everything feeds everything else. If Apple had a stack and a business model that worked for game developers, you’d see a different stack.

Microsoft is where it is because they are viciously competitive at different layers of the stack. Apple wants a piece of every nickel, Microsoft wants a piece of every computer. They license windows for every Mac user in a company.

gerdesj

"There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situations. There's a reason every AAA game engine depends on it in some way."

I'm not interested in AAA games engines writing and nor is most of the world. If that is it, then you have damned MS with (very) faint praise.

mamcx

Well. this is clearly just a example of a hard problem where MS tools are good for.

The MOST common developer that work on MS stack is in business apps and web, data, integration stuff.

There is much better fit for MS and there is NO good counterpart in OSX or Linux.

One of the major shocks I get when starting to work on OSX is how much less developed EVERYTHING is outside the ms stack.

The only good reason you have a life working in OSX and less in Linux is because the web lower the playing field.

But if this were a contest of "native" vs "native" is clear MS stack is ahead.

(Much more before, because of course the web change the equation so you can claim things FOR THE WEB are better on linux and even osx)

privatelypublic

I think you misunderstand- game engines are complex beasts and visual studio and/or .Net (in any of its incarnations) have the best debugging workflow I've seen.

Typescript is also Microsoft. So is ONNX.

gerdesj

"I think you misunderstand- game engines are complex beasts and visual studio and/or .Net (in any of its incarnations) have the best debugging workflow I've seen."

I think you misunderstand: the market, ie the number of people who actually care about developing game engines, is tiny.

How many games developers do you know as a subset of the people you know of?

OP only managed to find a niche product area for MS to shine in and maintain traction - the moat thing. Nothing else apparently.

I for one would not miss MS one jot. I wasted so much time with things like autoexec.bat and config.sys back in the day. I got good at it - Novell gave me a T shirt on Cool Solutions for a boot floppy image that managed to try several popular NIC drivers (3c595, 3c905, 3c509, ne1000 and a few others) and get you to a network connection for imaging or whatever. Later on I get to ignore SFC /SCANNOW answers to searches. Do you remember WINS? What about the horror of time sync? The PDC emulator FSMO role is basically a NT domain controller. AD was a bodge from day one, tacked onto ...

Sorry, got carried away there.

Again, Typescript is cared about by whom and what on earth is ONNX?

jiggawatts

To paint a picture: I’ve worked with Microsoft technologies almost exclusively for decades but recently I was forced to pick up some Node.js, Docker, and Linux tooling for a specific app.

I can’t express in words what a giant step backwards it is from ASP.NET and Visual Studio. It’s like bashing things with open source rocks after working in a rocket manufacturing facility festooned with Kuka robots.

It’s just… end-to-end bad. Everything from critical dependencies developed by one Russian kid that’s now getting shot at in Ukraine so “maintenance is paused” to everything being wired up with shell scripts that have fifty variants, no standards, and none of them work. I’ve spent more time just getting the builds and deployments to work (to an acceptable standard) for Node.js than I’ve spent developing entire .NET applications! [1]

I have had similar experiences every few years for decades. I touched PHP once and recoiled in horror. I tried to get a stable build going for some Python ML packages and learnt that they have a half-life measured in days or hours after which they become impossible to reproduce. Etc…

Keep on assuming “Microsoft is all bad” if you like. You’re tying both hands behind your back and poking the keyboard with your nose.

PS: The dotnet SDK is open source and works fine on Linux, and the IntelliJ Rider IDE is generally very good and cross-platform. You're not forced to use Windows.

[1] The effort required to get a NestJS app to have barely acceptable performance is significantly greater than the effort to rewrite it in .NET 9 which will immediately be faster and have a far bigger bag of performance tuning tools and technologies available if needed.

th0ma5

I have a lot of respect for organizations that get a lot done with Microsoft technologies. I think your perspective could be thought of as the benefits of vertical integration and vendor lock in. These do help people get things done!

In the academic and open source world those things are fought against because you don't want to be at the mercy of the software developer in the context of certain rights.

I think for every negative you mention on either side a positive could be found on either side. And like many things on the net, you're not wrong but not necessarily talking about the same kinds of things.

My remaining complaints about Microsoft are the inflexibility of their solutions that command abstractions that just don't work for many organizations, and the general viral nature of software sales in general of which they are one of many with similar issues, however Oracle is the worst of course.

cyberax

I tried developing an MS .NET app and it's indescribably bad. The deployment story is non-existent, monitoring, tracing, alarming is barely there. You have to work with MS libraries that are on life-support with glaring bugs still present.

briHass

Azure has some things about it that I don't like (compared to AWS), but it wins over AWS for Azure App Services. Essentially, IIS (webserver) as a service (PaaS), with autoscaling, auto-deployment, hot swap slots, auto-recovery, backups, etc. At it's core, it's basically a managed Docker container (either Windows or Linux) with IIS, so you can customize it quite a bit like a familiar VM, but unlike a VM, updates and security is all managed for you.

Beanstalk is a joke compared to AAS, and I'm more than happy to stay far away from Docker/K8s until that complexity is actually required, which it usually isn't until an entire department handles your K8s clusters/EKS.

duped

Microsoft, for all their warts, has the absolute best documentation for every public API in Windows. I'd go so far as to say it's better on average than manpages in Linux and BSD and light years better than the actively hostile bullshit from Apple.

Submitting a bug report though, you gotta know people or know where to ask.

viraptor

It really depends how far you go. The basics - they're pretty good. But for the more complicated things they just ignore all context and pretty much restate the names of functions/arguments without explaining how/why things work. See for example https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/tsvirtua... and https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/tsvirtua... What does the terminal services renderer do? "It renders bitmaps you dummy, just look at those arguments!"

iimblack

How do you separate the good from the bad? What do you do when Microsoft changes the good things into bad things?

My take is that Microsoft consistently makes bad things and makes "good" things into "bad" things; so, I don't have much expectation or faith that anything that I currently think is "good" will stay that way.

hilbert42

I still find it hard to believe that so many people and companies are prepared to use Microsoft's online/cloud services.

Not ony is this a single point of failure but it's one they've no control over whatsoever. Same goes for Google/Youtube etc. It's as risky as flying a passenger jet with only one engine.

What are they thinking, why are they prepared to risk everything?

It boggles my mind.

bitpush

Most companies enter into a contract with Microsoft. That is infinitely better than using a 2 person startup that runs out of a garage. Contracts come with strict terms of service, SLAs, service expectations and such.

If you had a restaurant, would you source your produce from your trusty friend who grows vegetables as a hobby or from an established mega-farming-company?

samat

I would sure want to dine in a restaurant were vegetables were grown out of love and not as a profit making machine above all else.

ramones13

Software from big companies can be made with love too?

hilbert42

No, I'd never use a 2-person startup, that's silly and irresponsible. I'd keep my services in-house and use multiple companies to store backups as I've done for decades—as we all used to do before the renting/leasing software (ripoff) model.

Nor would I ever use software that lives on a remote server that I've no direct control over.

Let's hope Trump does more blocking, it's the only way to wake up a lazy sleepy world.

BTW, isn't 'infinitely' somewhat of an exaggeration?

viraptor

It's a simple opportunity cost calculation. The service is there, provides value. Creating a replacement is not realistic. Paying for another replacement gives you potential headaches from using a less popular service. So when choosing between not doing a thing or doing a thing with the risk of spof, it's often a reasonable choice to go with those services.

Spivak

Do you consider the same single point of failure to use AWS?

There's a pretty significant lower bound of size to where you can reasonably have multiple points of failure. And like oh well if you use this stack you could theoretically move at any time isn't really the same thing as being multi-homed. I've been at places where this has been a concern of the leadership but the economics of it have never really worked out compared to spending your time working on anything else related to the business.

jimbobimbo

This applies to any company homed in the US. Not sure why Microsoft is singled out. Why Google, or Amazon, or Apple would oppose demands of the US government?

throwaway48476

In the era of globalization businesses expected to only follow a set of harmonized global laws set through treaty. TPP etc. Now globalization is reversing and business is expected to follow the law of the nation they're from wherever they're operating.

Such risks will have to be factored in now.

velcrovan

Businesses have never been exempt from the laws of the nation they're from.

sammyoos

I'd argue that the laws that must be obeyed form an odd superset of the laws of the nation from where the organization is operating and the laws where the users are located. Where those laws intersect nicely, the mode of operation is clearly defined, where they do not intersect, the mode of operation becomes very tricky. (As we've seen with privacy, cookie laws, etc.)

firesteelrain

For most businesses, the cost and difficulty of shifting away from Microsoft outweigh the benefits

smaudet

Maybe.

Some things go deep, true. However most businesses don't use most of Microsoft products - even the ones that do, the usage of the more complicated products is far more minuscule than imagined by e.g. CFOs, etc.

The real thing keeping many "in the fold" as it were would be authentication services.

Which are overcomplicated and probably easier to manage without...

okanat

It really depends on the size of the business. With smaller businesses it is easy to use alternatives. However any business beyond 1000 employees will give in to shareholder pressure and adopt distrust as its core value.

Microsoft Active Directory has excellent tooling for middle-management-heavy businesses. For better or for worse it provides the most integrated solution to reduce a desktop PC to a perfect thing for repetitive, boring, soul crushing office work. No other software solution comes close.

While I like Windows as a desktop platform, the reasons that it was designed as it is are very clear. To make cheapest laptops as dystopian as possible, you need systems that can run the same boring software for decades. Not for the good for the environment but for profits.

Windows provides all APIs to deeply integrate with Active Directory and MS Office. All engineering, accounting and finance software are deeply integrated with them. They literally run entire countries. I have seen engineering software that used Visio diagrams for designing factory pipelines. It is near impossible to pull the bigger businesses and governments out of this trap without completely upending entire sectors worth trillions. I think only very determined regimes like China can pull it off.

andyferris

Out of curiosity, how hard would it be to copy Active Directory in an open source project (like how Excel is copied by LibreOffice)?

Like if orgs need this capability why is there no good open source solution?

firesteelrain

Right, it’s stuff like Active Directory and how everything’s tied together. Once you’re using that for auth, it’s really tough to back out without a lot of effort.

We’ve looked into FreeIPA and similar options, but honestly, nothing really holds a candle to Active Directory yet.

AnonymousPlanet

AD and Domain Servers are like a cancer that will grow metastases around your org, costing user and client cals all over the place, even for every desk phone if you're not careful. The only winning move is never to play their game in the first place.

cyberax

AD is one of the few good MS projects. But you can use it with Macs and Linux just fine!

Just keep a couple of Windows servers running AD, and migrate everything else.

JamesBarney

And Microsoft is not unique in following court orders. You have to switch to businesses without an American presence to get around sanctions.

marcodiego

It is a good thing Trump is helping to change that.

firesteelrain

I wasn't aware of any major Trump-era policies that significantly reduced Microsoft’s dominance. Curious what you're referencing?

slantaclaus

I also haven't read the article but apparently reading the comments the article has to do with Trump-era policies affecting Microsoft

Modified3019

Trump has been outrageously hostile to our supposed European allies, and is extremely petty, vindictive, and doesn’t give a damn about security or privacy. Furthermore, the checks that would normally provide counter this like congress or the Supreme Court are currently stacked such that he can do horrendous things without consequence. Our media and tech companies are also more than happy to avoid challenging him.

Other countries reliant on US based cloud giants are understandably alarmed at his behavior, and it is now a strong possibility that Trump will attempt to use their reliance on our tech companies to wring from them whatever he wants.

So the idea of escaping US tech monopolies has become very popular among those paying attention.

0xWTF

I think the current subtrends of things like a resurgence of interest in mechanical watches, fountain pens, steampunk, etc, are sort of a large excursion on a dampening social problem: that technology is too far beyond our comprehension.

Can you even even tell what network stack got you this packet?

How about the protocols that got it from the network to your screen?

How about the quantum mechanics of the phosphors that pushed out the photons?

There are certainly techno-luddites/visionaries who are running their own email servers, but it's a pretty hostile environment for personal email servers. Ignoring the spam, just getting the existing big boys to trust you can be humiliating exercise in futility.

Can I get by without Excel? Sure. Google Sheets? Sure. No spreadsheet at all? Gonna be hard.

1970-01-01

A good business continutiy plan will accept that and any other risk with the compensating control of insurance. Yes, there is a statistic and probability of your entire business going out like a lightswitch, however if you have insurance to mitigate that risk, it isn't game over.

hooverd

> There was a recent incident where Microsoft somehow allegedly blocked a mailbox of a sanctioned individual. Any organization highly depending on MS products that might come into the crosshair should ask - can this happen to me? What would be the cost? How much I invest into prevention of this scenario? In this article I try to get the facts straight and use a return on security investment calculation to try and judge this situation in a rational way. Let’s grab our tinfoil hats and find out if it’ll be fine.

for people who didn't RTA

null

[deleted]

jongjong

I can't understand why people are still using proprietary software like Windows or OSX when superior free software exists. It's a testament to the hidden monopolizing forces which exists in our society.

_carbyau_

Superior for who?

What you value is not what everyone values.

Also, I'd argue that the monopolizing forces are not so much hidden as targeted.

duped

Because the free software isn't superior

axus

"I was horrified to learn that there’s an Azure container behind every cell of a spreadsheet executing the python code instead of… you know, my PC doing the work."

kenjackson

Fundamentally it’s hard to pushback against an authoritarian government. There is very little to stop Trump from sending Doge into MS headquarters with Marines and demanding admin access so they can make the change. Thinking the dependency on Microsoft (or any company) is the risk then you haven’t been paying attention.

munchler

The incident in question targeted someone outside of the US, where DOGE has no direct influence (yet).

kenjackson

DOGE’s influence is wherever the administration wants it to be.

mulmen

That’s the point of federation. If there’s no centralized target then the Marines have a much harder job.