How friction is being redistributed in today's economy
107 comments
·May 9, 2025fellowniusmonk
Because of the medium that is the internet (low friction and high observability) it has a glaring lack of interest in solving problems where the destination is high friction low observability.
In fact, because the digital world explicitly competes with friction for engagement any financially incentivized platform must direct people away from the real world and real people.
So the endgame is to replace real people with digital people even in our relationships.
Real spaces with fake places.
Real disagreements with manufacturered ones.
Only people who have been heavily involved in 3rd places seem to be able to quantify what our modern world has unnecessarily thrown away.
It's a glaring ommission once you realize it, working to solve that atm.
walterbell
Where do RTO mandates (2nd place friction) fit into this model?
svachalek
I think drug dealers figured this out a long time ago, just because you sell something doesn't mean you should use it for yourself.
null
pbronez
Glad to hear it, what’s your approach?
mlekoszek
Not saying this is what you're doing, but I find requiring someone to solve a problem immediately after sharing it can (ironically) stifle finding a solution. The act of identifying and the act of solving rarely happen all in one motion, and often the first step to solving a problem is to establish its validity among peers so meaningful solutions can arise.
andrewflnr
Yes, but: The top level comment specifically said they were working to solve the problem. I think in that case it's worth asking about their approach.
worldsayshi
Tangent to this: I think it's often useful to allow suggesting "bad" solutions to vague problems because good solutions often hang out close to the bad one's and shines interesting light on the problem. Or bad solutions often immediately provokes better ideas. If you immediately see that a proposed solution is bad there's a good chance you know what specifically is bad about it and can propose an amendment.
Suggesting a bad solution is sometimes half the way to a good one.
jfengel
I get the idea, and it's a pretty good one.
But the headline is really bad. It's not a commodity and it's not valuable. It is what creates value; it's what makes value meaningful.
Don't get hung up on the headline. It's a thesis equivalent to the notion that art comes from struggle against some kind of limitation. That limitation is usually arbitrary (the form of poetry, the rules of a game, the difficulty of oil paint and brush), but the result is meaningful despite and because of it.
klysm
I’ve had this in my head as well “constraints yield art”. But it’s also required to engineering
DiscourseFan
Τέχνη, as the Greeks called it.
rendaw
That seems to just mean "art" AFAICT? I couldn't find anything about constraints
rambambram
Texel, as the Dutch call it.
fundaThree
> It's not a commodity and it's not valuable.
Commodities only have the commodity-value (i.e. price); actual value (i.e. something's worth/weight/utility/what something means to you) is unrelated to commodification. Most valuable things in your life likely have no meaningful commodity value. Very much including the concept of friction.
If only commodities are "valuable", the word has lost all value.
jillesvangurp
There is such a thing as negative value, if you do something that is a commodity poorly, then you are actively less valuable relative to competitors that do a good job of the same thing.
Most software development is a lot of low value commodity stuff that you just have to do properly just in order to do whatever it is that makes whatever it is you do valuable/unique/desirable. You can' charge anyone extra for doing this commodity stuff right. But if you do it wrong, your product becomes less valuable.
A good example of something that is both a commodity and a common source of friction is all the signup and security friction that a lot of software providers have to do. If you do it poorly, it creates a lot of friction, hassle, and frustration. And support overhead. It's literally costing you money and customers. Doing it right isn't necessarily directly appreciated but it results in less friction, frustration, and overhead.
That's why good UX is so important. It's a commodity. But there's plenty of opportunity for turning that into friction by doing a poor job of it.
eru
> Most software development is a lot of low value commodity stuff that you just have to do properly just in order to do whatever it is that makes whatever it is you do valuable/unique/desirable. You can' charge anyone extra for doing this commodity stuff right. But if you do it wrong, your product becomes less valuable.
To give a non-software example: think of wearing a clean shirt in a job interview. Nobody will hire you for the clean shirt, but plenty of people will reject you for stains.
ffsm8
Heh, from the headline I expected this to be another blog post about how to find your market niche and what you can monetize, ultimately.
Instead I got a pretty interesting article about human nature and the economy as a whole.
riehwvfbk
What is the idea of the article? It's all over the place. Zuck is bad, Trump is bad, a degree in basket weaving can be obtained by a chatbot, it's who you know, the Fed held rates, Uber drivers are somehow related to friction, we need change but we also need things to go back to how they were.
chipsrafferty
[dead]
eviks
The art in poetry is poetry, which includes all forms of it, so the poet isn't limited to any specific form, and many did write in different forms. Similarly unclear what was arbitrary about oil paints, what was a similarly colorful alternative without such limits?
coldtea
>The art in poetry is poetry, which includes all forms of it
Only in abstract - before you get to do it. When you do start to write a specific poem this doesn't hold anymore, and a big part of the art is fitting the form you chose.
eviks
Not just in abstract - mixed poetry exists in reality, so it holds at the level of an individual poem as well.
Affric
I mean poetry is an arrangement of symbols, generally symbols that are related in their representation: assonance, dissonance, rhyme, meter, stress, meaning…
The poet is limited to symbols. And every poet comes up against these limitations.
eviks
But the symbols aren't an arbitrary limitation - for example, using non-language symbols would mean that he will simply not be understood, so the understanding is drive by the need to communicate
skybrian
Toqueville wrote about American believing in themselves, but not in isolation.
> Americans of all ages, all conditions, all minds constantly unite. Not only do they have commercial and industrial associations in which all take part, but they also have a thousand other kinds: religious, moral, grave, futile, very general and very particular, immense and very small; Americans use associations to give fêtes, to found seminaries, to build inns, to raise churches, to distribute books, to send missionaries to the antipodes; in this manner they create hospitals, prisons, schools. Finally, if it is a question of bringing to light a truth or developing a sentiment with the support of a great example, they associate. Everywhere that, at the head of a new undertaking, you see the government in France and a great lord in England, count on it that you will perceive an association in the United States.
But that was based on need, back before a lot of modern institutions existed. Where public schools didn’t exist yet, there were private academies. Before insurance companies, there were mutual aid societies.
Nowadays there are businesses and other organizations serving every need, though sometimes only if you have enough money.
dullcrisp
Businesses are associations. They just unfortunately come with a lot of feudal assumptions these days.
anovikov
Feudalism wasn't at all about people. It was about land. That's the principal difference with slaveholding: in a slaveholding society, principal asset is people, and the land is usually cheap, just worthless unless you own slaves who can cultivate it - it is the people who are the limited resource. In a feudal society, it is the land - if you have land, people will come - there was no point to instill gulag-like conditions on them - land was limited, people were not - so there was nowhere for them to run.
dullcrisp
I was referring to the rigidly hierarchical management structure at most companies and how there’s a worker/manager/executive class structure that functions roughly based on fealty. It was a rough metaphor maybe but I wasn’t talking about slavery.
Nasrudith
Please, I am begging you. Research actual feudalism.
zkmon
Well, you call it friction, but others call it just the real world. It's going to be there, firm and fine, unaware of this digital, virtual bacteria. Just like those rocks who saw a highway come up beside them, a city getting built, and then all becoming ruins, restoring the natural landscape. All happening in a blip of time for the rocks. Adaptation would restore normalcy.
If social isolation and digital-ness is not rewarded, it would go away on its own. If it is not supported by the decaying social fabric, it would fall like facade of playing cards. Everything must interact with real world and adapt at the ground level.
Human endeavor has insignificantly small effect on the real world. Cultures and schools of thought fall and new ones rise. Real world doesn't adapt to your wish, you adapt to the world.
99% of the world population might not know any stuff you are talking about - trumpcoin, VR headsets, AI etc. That's not what the life on earth is made of.
apples_oranges
You can see it differently: Digital world is almost entirely friction, shoveling useless info into our brains from morning till evening and preventing them from functioning normally. And being offline, lets say stuck in traffic and the phone battery is empty, is a welcome relief.
smitty1e
Is the friction of establishing trust via TLS on the way to consuming all the bandwidth?
One seriously wonders if the cost of zero trust will kill off the open internet, reducing us to walled gardens of SSH connections that can only be obtained by invitation.
We're falling far short of the vision of Sir Tim Berners-Lee, no?
thomastjeffery
The friction is incompatibility. That's what makes it difficult to interact with the system, and for the system to interact with itself.
Tim Berners-Lee's vision is great, but no one has really figured out how to make it feasible. To make matters worse, the interests of capital have taken over the system, and replaced most interpersonal interactions with an advertising market.
When a participant in the system is able to monopolize interaction in that system, they end up writing the rules that define compatibility for other participants of the system. The effect is not only that people on different platforms are isolated from the people on other platforms, it's also that they must interact with the system through the rules of their chosen platform. Rules don't just define the bounds of interaction: they define the interface, the logic, the goals, etc.
---
It's impossible to build a set of rules that captures the entire potential of digital interaction. Objectivity is impossible, because the moment we write down its meaning, we subject it to a specific isolated context.
I'm working on a way to change the perspective that the system has with itself, so that subjectivity can be a first-class feature, and compatibility can be accomplished after-the-fact. What I have so far is still an extremely abstract idea, but I do think it's possible.
thunkingdeep
Most people visit the same half dozen websites over and over anyways. Websites are eventually going to be an artifact of an old medium as we move to like cybernetics and AR glasses and brain implants and whatever else. All that stuff in websites will be forgotten
chipsrafferty
Eh, I think a huge amount of people would never want anything implanted in any part of their body. Most people don't even want smart glasses.
walterbell
> All that stuff in websites will be forgotten
Why are LLM scraper bots hammering websites globally, if websites will be forgotten?
sebzim4500
> And being offline, lets say stuck in traffic and the phone battery is empty, is a welcome relief.
Then sell your phone?
Sorry to be dismissive, but you are locked in a prison of your own making.
immibis
Is the correct response to someone who hates their job, who happens to take a hike and enjoy nature once in a while, "why don't you go live in the woods then?"?
seangrogg
Is it the wrong response? If they hate a job there's actual value in assessing whether they need it, especially if they could live life in a different environment they would enjoy with things made by their own hands.
null
lucianbr
> Sorry to be dismissive
Then don't be dismissive?
Seriously, isn't this answer the exact application of your own philosophy?
cmonBro22
[flagged]
anzumitsu
I think this is true to an extent and it’s good to take a step back and remind yourself that thing you think is making you miserable is ultimately a small square of metal and glass. But the actual situation is more complicated. Clearly phones have utility beyond being skinner boxes, the ability to contact your loved ones, navigate roads and transit systems, translate languages, retrieve information from the web, etc are all extremely useful and their absence would decrease your quality of life. But since that’s all bundled together with the stuff people find harmful you’re left in a constant struggle to only your device in a beneficial way. You can lock down your phone but that’s just a band-aid. If someone can figure out a “smart-ish” phone that does the things I listed above but not the harmful things I think there would be a real market for it.
dgan
Sidenote: what's up with all these substack submissions in last 24h
I can't dismiss the cookie banner on android (ff) so not reading
mdaniel
I have long lobbied for an archive.today link bot for all of the popular spam-adjacent domains (bloomberg, medium, substack, etc)
p.s. I think it is one of goals of Firefox to dismiss cookie banners[1] so you may want to file a bugzilla about that behavior
1: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cookie-banner-reduction...
jampekka
It's just providing the most valuable commodity of friction. :)
nine_k
Does the reader mode not take care of all the unnecessary formatting, including the banner?
ranprieur
Key sentence: "When systems that were designed for resilience are optimized instead for efficiency, they break."
hliyan
My personal formulation of this, which I arrived at during COVID, is: "Some inefficiencies are safety margins"
pluto_modadic
three kinds of "inefficiencies"
- safety margins (keep, to not harm the customer)
- employee benefits (keep, to not harm the employee, e.g. retirement)
- profit margins for stockholders (you could probably get rid of this)
euroderf
So, the financial incentives are wholly dysfunctional, innappropriate, and badly thought out (if thought about at all).
andrewflnr
I'm so glad this idea is starting to go mainstream.
Animats
Me too.
In the days before electricity deregulation, power companies had rates regulated to achieve a fixed return on investment. This tended to result in overbuilding. Not huge overbuilding, but about 10% - 20%. The quest for "efficiency" wiped out some of that safety margin.
eviks
> The FAA's equipment now fails approximately 700 times weekly. Controllers work 10-hour shifts, six days straight. There's a backlog of replacement parts for components nobody manufactures anymore. When systems that were designed for resilience are optimized instead for efficiency
The wiki definition of efficiency is "the often measurable ability to avoid making mistakes or wasting materials, energy, efforts, money, and time while performing a task. In a more general sense, it is the ability to do things well, successfully, and without waste", so having a lot of breakage is by definition not efficient, and the system isn't optimized for it
Similarly the frictionless digital paradise is imaginary
> Amazon's one-click ordering creates a seamless customer experience by offloading friction onto warehouse workers and delivery drivers.
Wait, that one-click order could be of a counterfeit 5-fake-starred product, does the fail to match your basic need not count as friction in author's digital physics book?
> Meta builds frictionless social interfaces
How is the impossibility to get algorithms matching your needs a frictionless interface?
walterbell
(reposting dead comment from Zoethink, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43959658)
This piece beautifully reframes friction not as a nuisance to be eliminated, but as a signal—of value, of effort, of systemic health.
What strikes me most is the inversion: friction has not disappeared; it’s just been redistributed—offscreen, outsourced, or monetized. In the digital realm, we’re nudged, streamlined, simulated. In the physical world, friction accumulates in deferred maintenance and human fatigue. In curated spaces, it becomes something you pay to suppress.
Maybe the real question isn't how much friction exists, but who bears it—and what happens when we forget it's still there.
raffael_de
Did I miss where the author defines what "friction" is actually meaning?
But certainly a very impressive exercise in creative writing based on taking an analogy too far.
kkaatii
Agree... while there are valuable and interesting notions in the article the final conclusion and the so-called curated friction is just too stretched for me.
walterbell
> Did I miss where the author defines what "friction" is actually meaning?
They were responding to a tweet, cited in the second paragraph:
I want to talk about friction.¹
¹ https://nitter.poast.org/Bonecondor/status/19184554398066568... I truly believe this lack of structural friction when it comes to basically every type of dopamine-frying pleasure on earth is a huge part of why gen z is Like That
moralestapia
Original X link because that other one does not load for me and perhaps others.
raffael_de
I'm not sure what your point is to be honest.
walterbell
The "[structural] friction" is defined by the tweet, not the substack article responding to the tweet.
devmor
"Friction" in the author's post refers to intellectual friction. The need to think about what you are doing before you do it; as opposed to being led to your next action by the UX of an app or instruction of another person.
BriggyDwiggs42
I thought it was excellent. Do you have any specific critiques of claims that we could disagree on?
cadamsdotcom
Good read! It exposes something deeply American and probably hard to change.
American culture glorifies inventions and new things. Meanwhile all the stuff invented ages ago is just left run into the ground. It’s very rarely rebuilt.
Transit system failures expose this.
Everyone can point to an example overseas of something shinier - trains that run on time in Switzerland, for example - yet things in the US work “well enough” even when they’re shabby. It’s actually surprising how well some things in the US continue to work despite being decayed and underfunded.
The US has given the world many amazing inventions despite all this shabby infrastructure; it keeps chugging along even though Warren Buffet feels it’s close to collapse. Maybe the rest of the world can learn something from that?
euroderf
Starts to sound like Russia. Keep things running, just barely, thanks to liberal use of piano wire and chewing gum.
Huh, my take on this has always been the opposite. Friction is how the "attention economy" makes money. You can't monetize people's attention directly - but you can throw in friction - ads, dark patterns - in the way of people. Like a metaphorical donkey on a treadmill hooked up to a dynamo, attention is how you make people chase your carrot; friction is how you slowly bleed them out of their money.
In this view, friction is bad - and the reason I've been using this metaphor for years, it because it makes it clear the reason tech sucks is intentional - the parts that suck are the parts that make money.
EDIT:
More aligned with the article, you could say that attention economy strategically manages friction; it removes it where the article is looking for them, and placing it elsewhere. You can imagine the user to be a wooden ball, rolling around until they fall into a pit structured like this:
That is: low friction when they fall into the hole, moderate friction (sandpaper) as they tumble around inside it, chasing rewards or fulfillment or just wanting the software to do the promised job - that's the part that continuously extracts value - and very high friction (spikes) should they want to try and leave the hole.