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Continuous Thought Machines

Continuous Thought Machines

12 comments

·May 12, 2025

erewhile

The ideas of these machines isn't entirely new. There's some research from 2002, where Liquid State Machines (LSM) are introduced[1]. These are networks that generally rely on continuous inputs into spiking neural networks, which are then read by some dense layer that connects to all the neurons in this network to read what is called the liquid state.

These LSMs have also been used for other tasks, like playing Atari games in a paper from 2019[2], where they show that while sometimes these networks can outperform humans, they don't always, and they tend to fail at the same things more conventional neural networks failed at at the time as well. They don't outperform these conventional networks, though.

Honestly, I'd be excited to see more research going into continuous processing of inputs (e.g., audio) with continuous outputs, and training full spiking neural networks based on neurons on that idea. We understand some of the ideas of plasticity, and they have been applied in this kind of research, but I'm not aware of anyone creating networks like this with just the kinds of plasticity we see in the brain, with no back propagation or similar algorithms. I've tried this myself, but I think I either have a misunderstanding of how things work in our brains, or we just don't have the full picture yet.

[1] doi.org/10.1162/089976602760407955 [2] doi.org/10.3389/fnins.2019.00883

liamwire

Seems really interesting, and the in-browser demo and model was a really great hook to get interest in the rest of the research. I’m only partially through it but the idea itself is compelling.

robwwilliams

Great to refocus in this important topic. So cool to see this bridge being built across fields.

In wet-ware it is hard not to think of “time” as linear Newtonian time driven by a clock. But in the cintext of brain- and-body what really is critical is generating well ordered sequences of acts and operations that are embedded in thicker or thinner sluce of “now” that can range from 300 msec of the “specious present” to 50 microseconds in cells that evaluate the sources of sound (the medial superior olivary nucleus).

For more context on contingent temporality see interview with RW Williams in this recent publication in The European Journal of Neuroscience by John Bickle:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40176364/

dcrimp

I'm quite enthusiastic about reading this. Since watching the progress by the larger LLM labs, I've noted that they're not making material changes in model configuration that I think to be necessary to proceed toward more refined and capable intelligence. They're adding tools and widgets to things we know don't think like a biological brain. These are really useful things from a commercial perspective, but I think LLMs won't be an enduring paradigm, at least wrt genuine stabs at artificial intelligence. I've been surprised that there hasn't been more effort to transformative work like in the linked article.

The two things that hang me up on current progress in intelligence is that:

- there don't seem to be models which possess continuous thought. Models are alive during a forward pass on their way to produce a token and brain-dead any other time - there don't seem to be many models that have neural memory - there doesn't seem to be any form of continuous learning. To be fair, the whole online training thing is pretty uncommon as I understand it.

Reasoning in token space is handy for evals, but is lossy - you throw away all the rest of the info when you sample. I think Meta had a paper on continuous thought in latent space, but I don't think effort in that has continued to anything commercialised.

Somehow, our biological brains are capable of super efficiently doing very intelligent stuff. We have a known-good example, but research toward mimicking that example is weirdly lacking?

All the magic happens in the neural net, right? But we keep wrapping nets with tools we've designed with our own inductive biases, rather than expanding the horizon of what a net can do and empowering it to do that.

Recently I've been looking into SNNs, which feel like a bit of a tech demo, as well as neuromorphic computing, which I think holds some promise for this sort of thing, but doesn't get much press (or, presumably, budget?)

(Apologies for ramble, writing on my phone)

ttoinou

Ironically this webpage continuously refreshes itself on my firefox iOS :P

tonyhart7

it literally never load for me

null

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coolcase

I love the ML diagrams that hybrid maths and architecture. It is much less dry than all formal math.

rvz

> The Continuous Thought Machine (CTM) is a neural network architecture that enables a novel approach to thinking about data. It departs from conventional feed-forward models by explicitly incorporating the concept of Neural Dynamics as the central component to its functionality.

Still going through the paper, But this looks very exciting to actually see, the internal visual recurrence in action when confronting a task (such as the 2D Puzzle) - making it easier to interpret neural networks over several tasks involving 'time'.

(This internal recurrence may not be new, but applying neural synchronization as described in this paper is).

> Indeed, we observe the emergence of interpretable and intuitive problem-solving strategies, suggesting that leveraging neural timing can lead to more emergent benefits and potentially more effective AI systems

Exactly. Would like to see more applications of this in existing or new architectures that can also give us additional transparency into the thought process on many tasks.

Another great paper from Sakana.

omneity

Is it the same Sakana from the cheating AI coder tribulations? There were some fundamental mistakes in that work that made me question the team.

https://www.hackster.io/news/sakana-ai-claims-its-ai-cuda-en...

https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/21/sakana-walks-back-claims-t...

doall

They admitted, apologized, and are in the process of revising the paper. Mistakes always happen whether small or big. What is more important is to be transparent, learn from it, and make sure the same mistake doesn't happen again.

brwatomiya

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