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Are Americans Still Welcome in Europe?

PeterStuer

Nobody ever cared about politics when it comes to tourists.

It's about your behaviour as a human being. Yes, there are different customs, and while the last few decades have steadily grinded to erode these, even today there are still stark differences between the different European people.

If you are going to be loud, opinianated and callous, people are not going to dislike you for being 'american', 'english' or 'dutch', just for being loud, opinionated and callous. Many americans visit here and are amical, culturally curious and respectfull. Nobody sane over here is going to go object to you because 'trump'.

Leave your maga hats as wel as your pronouns at home, and enjoy your trip.

happytoexplain

>Leave your maga hats as wel as your pronouns at home, and enjoy your trip.

It's hard not to point out how desperately sad the state of affairs is when wearing a political slogan and using a pronoun (I'm assuming there is an implicit premise you're leaving out) are on the same level of "being political". Shall we also leave our race and gender at home? How?

sph

> Shall we also leave our race and gender at home? How?

“I don’t want a Black History Month. Black History is American History. I’ll stop calling you a white man if you stop calling me a black man.”

— Morgan Freeman

You can leave race and gender at home if you stop talking about it all the damn time. Whatever passes these days for racial equality is anything but. I don’t hear people making so much fuss about including the correct quota of green eyes people in movies and work teams.

/rant

threatofrain

It's the reverse direction which always warrants us fulfilling a causal chain. If we see something then we should be able to talk about it, even if there's an army of meta-commentators producing downstream effects. For example, we should be able to talk about an ongoing bank run even if it tilts the outcome, just as we should be able to talk about the plain observations of race in front of our faces.

scoofy

We have to choose between two worlds: a world where nobody cares about our differences, or a world where we celebrate everyone's differences.

The mid-century American civil rights movement was based on the former. The modern movement seems to want the latter. The problem is that these two positions are subtly in conflict with each other. The former erases identities, the latter reinforces them.

The both have similar goals, but they present very different ways of living and very different social norms, which is why I see them both as potentially high-conflict norms when visiting other cultures.

BrandoElFollito

No, of course not. You come with the whole package but we do not care.

We do not care of you support black live matters or trump or abortion. This is your thing and except if you are with people who want to discuss this you let keep it to yourself. There are plenty of people that are Ken to discuss, we are not prude.

This is so obvious to me that I feel I must be missing something.

lucyjojo

i'll put a huge asterisk on that "we"

schmookeeg

Both draw a line, and often the purveyor is trying to adopt a "with me or against me" stance.

My amateur and unpracticed use of the French language has probably mis-pronouned plenty of folk across Europe and West Africa. Luckily everyone understood my motives and took it in stride.

imartin2k

And the 20% tipping, please leave that at home too.

dtagames

Thanks for this timely post! My mother is going to Paris next week and asked me the very same question.

I concur with Rick. In my experience travelling and living in Europe, Americans are well liked despite whatever politics the country as a whole may take on. As he says, it's extremely important for us to be good ambassadors -- deferential, open, and keeping it light.

fifilura

I think most of Europe understands that half of you did not vote for the orange man.

And in particular if you are well educated or work at a university looking for new opportunities you will be more than welcome.

If you misbehave though you will probably be frowned upon as a MAGA. But not much more than a frown. No reason to invent any risk, most of Europe is still an open society and have not changed.

If you plan to go to Hungary or places like Serbia, I am guessing that you will more greeted.

And soon enough I guess you will be able to travel to Russia and Belarus (also Europe), but I would not recommend it.

mog_dev

tbf less than half

fifilura

Yeah upvoted! Russia (including Belarus and occupied parts of Ukraine) makes up a big part of Europe. At least if you count area.

BrandoElFollito

The important thing for her will be the weather. This week was great, next week may be less great.

Another imprint thing is that this is vacation time for children in the Paris area. This is rather a good thing.

Besides that they're is nothing to worry about. Seriously. We discuss like crazy what is happening in the US but this is like a tv series. When we meet real Americans we don't care (well, someone may tease her a bit :))

trgn

Early Iraq years were the same. It's alright, just nod and smile through all the reductive and offensive things you'll be hearing

mano78

As we do when Vance speaks of us

agubelu

Tell her to be polite, learn the most basic French sentences and say bonjour/bonsoir to bus drivers, shopkeepers and hotel staff, and she'll be more than fine.

mvdtnz

Things have changed significantly the past couple of weeks. I'm much less welcoming of Americans - any Americans - in my life now.

I'm not European and don't speak for Europeans (or anyone but myself) however.

sirbutters

[flagged]

dtagames

I told Mom that, too. By putting yourself on a plane and spending money there, you are sending the message that you like France and that's the message they receive. They know that makes you different from Americans who don't come.

orwin

Honestly, I don't think most french she will talk to will care who your mother voted for.

She will probably find us 'rude', but we really aren't, we have different social software than people from the US, and some of us will probably find your mom 'too nice'. I hope she enjoys her trip here anyway.

BrandoElFollito

If this is her first time in France, please tell her that the remove indifference she will be faced with has nothing to do with her being American.

We are much less "surface friendly" then in the US - this is particularly visible in shops and restaurants. Nobody will greet her as if she was a long time friend.

I would say this is probably the only thing that she will notice.

Ah yes, and kilograms, meters and celsius. And people crossing the street on red light. And people saying fuck rather than f**k.

optionalsquid

Leave your MAGA hats and your MAGA views at home, and few Europeans are gonna have a problem with you

bilekas

I think leaving politics at home is always good advice when travelling, you're there to enjoy yourself, not spread political ideas. Unless you're entering a genuinely willing conversation that can be had maturely, definitely leave it at home.

brandall10

I've traveled quite a bit over the past few years (including a couple dozen cities in Europe), and I've found at events at many hostels/shared housing I've been at, it routinely comes up, esp. when alcohol is involved.

With young Europeans, it seems to be a point of fascination with them that such stuff is happening in our country. And they will implicitly assume you're progressive because you're traveling in that part of the world.

jofla_net

I was told I was 'forgiven' long before MAGA was a thing, near the bridge outside of Notre Dame Cathedral. Let me tell you, that made my day. Don't envy that waiter's career.

kmeisthax

The funny thing about this is that Europe is chock full of even loonier fascists than the MAGA hats.

The far-right is, ironically, very globalist. Almost like a rainbow coalition of fascists. The problem is that they all think fucking over each other is going to make them #1. You can't have a world where "America First", "Germany First", "Islam First", "Japan First", "Korea First", "Korea First", "China First", and "India First" all[0] coexist. They're far too egotistical to be satisfied with a tie. Someone has to be second.

We're seeing a lot of Europe and Canada rally around the current liberal establishment, because Trump started the global race war before every country was actually committed to it, and the fascists are realizing they might wind up on the losing end of it. But let's also remember that a year ago, the AfD was talking about deporting German citizens, and had even hoodwinked the liberal establishment into supporting shit like holding refugee claimants in Rwanda. Europe looked like it was about to fall to fascists that are smarter and more well-connected than the American equivalent.

The divide, of course, is not "European" vs. "liberal American" vs. "MAGA hat". It's "those who show humanity to others" vs. "those who see others as a tool to be consumed".

[0] If you're wondering, these correspond roughly to the MAGA wing of the GOP, the AfD, ISIS, all those idiots in Japan with sound trucks, Kim Jong-Un, , Xi Jinping, and Narendra Modi.

For context, Xi Jinping is very, very ethnonationalist, despite running a nominally Communist party.

tastyface

"You can't have a world where "America First", "Germany First", "Islam First", "Japan First", "Korea First", "Korea First", "China First", and "India First" all[0] coexist. They're far too egotistical to be satisfied with a tie. Someone has to be second."

Sure you can - see the Axis during WWII. The trick is to gang up on the rest of the world and win, then deal with each other. (Or perhaps jealously guard your respective spheres of influence.)

r00fus

> For context, Xi Jinping is very, very ethnonationalist, despite running a nominally Communist party.

This is the first I'm hearing of this - do you have any context? Everything I've heard about China's policy (including having visited Beijing) is that everyone there is super open to foreigners and very respectful if you are likewise.

kmeisthax

The tourist experience does not accurately reflect the attitude of a country's policy towards foreigners or its racial minorities. Every country wants to have tourists entering the country, spending money inside of it, and leaving; it's one of those economic benefits that's so strong that even countries with huge overtourism problems find it difficult to manage the demand.

First, let's talk about immigration. This tends to be a better barometer of a country's attitudes towards foreigners and integration. East Asia in general tends to be extremely restrictive, but China is harder to get into by orders of magnitude. For context:

- Japan has 3.41 million foreign residents out of a population of 123.7 million (2.76%)

- China (PRC) has 0.85 million foreign residents (excluding HK/Macau/TW) out of a population of 1,411.78 million (0.06%)

This data is sourced from 2020 and 2024[0], which means it could have been lowered by COVID; so let's talk about permanent residents. Japan has about 900k permanent residents[1] compared to China's... 12k[2]. That's two orders of magnitude lower.

Ok, but who's trying to get into China? I mean, Americans would never want to emigrate to China, right? Well, sure, I'll give you that, but China borders plenty of countries that would consider moving to the PRC to be a material benefit (e.g. North Korea and Myanmar).

China has an immigration policy that would make Donald Trump blush. But so what?

Second, let's talk about the one atrocity Mao wasn't willing to commit: Han chauvinism.

China has a particular concern for territorial integrity. That's why they obsess over getting back control over Taiwan, an island full of people who want nothing to do with the mainland, and why they absorbed Hong Kong into themselves 20 years ahead of what they'd agreed to. The problem is that, especially on China's more ambiguously defined eastern borders, nobody there wants to actually be part of China. This terrifies Xi Jinping.

And what does Xi do when he's terrified? He builds concentration camps. The eastern part of China, Xinjiang, is full of concentration camps where the Uighur population was rounded up, enslaved, indoctrinated, and sterilized; in the name of "anti-terrorism". This alone is enough for me to slap the "ethnofascist" label on Xi regardless of what political ideology he claims to subscribe to.

[0] The Chinese data comes from the 2020 Chinese census, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Chinese_census and this article: https://www.intereconomics.eu/contents/year/2022/number/5/ar... via Wikipedia

For Japan's 2024 statistics, Wikipedia sourced them from:

https://www.moj.go.jp/isa/publications/press/13_00047.html

https://www.stat.go.jp/data/jinsui/new.html

[1] https://www.jcer.or.jp/english/japans-immigration-policy-de-...

Note that this excludes "special permanent residents", most of whom are victims of Imperial Japan's brutal occupation of Korea and Taiwan who got permanent residency in Japan as part of WWII peace treaties.

[2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3234679/chi...

moomin

I remember when Brexit happened, every time I got chatting to someone in Europe they would, politely, try to figure out where I stood on the issue. When they figured out that I was pro-European they wanted to know my take on what was going on in the UK. I imagine that if I'd been pro-Brexit they'd have just avoided the subject and discussed the weather.

I imagine you'll experience the same thing as an American coming to Europe right now.

lo_zamoyski

I find it odd to opine about the political business of other countries. That is, I might perceive a subject matter a certain way, or I may recognize the moral issues with a particular policy (if serious enough, I might even endorse some form of intervention, if prudent). Heck, I might even, in principle, offer a dispassionate analysis of a given policy if I were a political analyst. But what I don't understand is how a foreigner can be "pro-X" as it the issue were personal.

In the case of Brexit, as someone who isn't British, I have no opinion one way or another. I might have a view of what the relative trade-offs are, perhaps te impact of Brexit on my country, but to claim to be pro- or contra-Brexit seems as ridiculous as supporting or opposing my neighbor's choice of furnishings or home building material. The question doesn't belong to the common good I share with the neighbor.

Brexit, like many issues, was more of a litmus test for gauging "political purity", whether someone is in the political in-group or out-group, kosher or treif.

bryanlarsen

> I find it odd to opine about the political business of other countries

AFAICT, they weren't opining, they were asking questions. I think that's very natural. "My media is telling me that there's some weird stuff going on over there, can you tell me what's really going on?"

moomin

But neither Brexit nor the US foreign and trade policy _are_ just other country's politics. All of these things directly affected/affect the EU27. It's not just a football game. e.g. You'd best believe the average polish person cares pretty deeply about what's going on in Ukraine.

In any event, I found they didn't want to tell me what they thought about it, they wanted to hear my perspective on why these things were happening. Obviously I claim no great political insight, but I could tell them what it looked like at ground zero.

iteratethis

Yes, you're welcome.

I'm from the Netherlands, middle-aged and have never met a person in my circles with a genuine hate of America or Americans.

There's plenty of critique on the state of US society, but that doesn't translate to general hate for any random American, unless you're intentionally provocative.

Likewise, we do not hate US products. It's just that in the case of food and cars, we have plenty ourselves of an equal or better quality.

Should you be conservative and drop a few of those views in casual conversation, I can assure you that this doesn't shock the average European. In fact, counter intuitively you may find out that progressive Americans are far more progressive than progressive Europeans. Culturally that is, not economically.

Do avoid obnoxious patriotism or bragging about the US.

maeil

Are Chinese people still welcome in Europe? Yes, but with caveats, and more scrunity. So not as welcome as e.g. Japanese people. Americans are now part of the same group as Chinese people.

fifilura

The Chinese are looked upon with distrust, not because of who they are, but because the Chinese regime puts pressure on exchange students, workers and probably tourists to spy.

ValveFan6969

Watch any travel vlog. Someone goes to China, Russia, Pakistan, you name it. The people are decent when you treat them decently. If you Europeans are openly showing distrust for Americans and Chinese simply for being American or Chinese, it might be a "you" problem, just saying.

BrandoElFollito

We are not, don't take the word of someone random on internet.

As your said, this is the behavior of an individual, tourist or local, that makes the man or woman.

jjice

I was in London last week. Everyone was incredibly kind and welcoming. Some people made some jokes about the US (which were welcome and light hearted) and we all had a good time.

qoez

American movie exports is alive and well. Most europeans see americans positively from decades of hollywood propaganda. A few months of trump hasn't and isn't going to change that. Stop reading twitter if you've been convinced otherwise

kasperni

[flagged]

qoez

Surveys said trump would lose both elections. I think people lie quite a lot on these (or the sample size is too small). From personal on the ground data in scandinavia I think US love is alive and well.

notlisted

Europe worries about Americans that don't leave the country.

Americans who travel to Europe (have a passport) are rarely the 'T%%' shirt or 'Maggi' Cap-wearing kind. If anything, traveling Americans have always been known for their ample smiles, friendly nature, unbridled enthusiasm, and positivity/sunny outlook.

[Recent actions by the current administration did help unify Europe, but they mostly feel sorry for us. Anyone part of the group stuck in the 'faux news' bubble may have a bad time, because nothing they've been told turns out to be true...]

null

[deleted]

thctphr

What an odd thing to ask. Why wouldn't they be?

davidw

People are likely to start suffering real, personal pain because of all the garbage coming from the White House. If you lost your job at the factory because of the tariffs, and hear some loud Americans next to you at the bar... maybe you don't feel so charitable towards them compared to a more abstract dispute over, say, your views on the best way to provision health care.

Not sure how likely that will be (the bars where factory workers hang out tend to not be the ones in tourist areas, for one), but it seems plausible to me.

I wouldn't let that stop me from travelling though.

happytoexplain

You gave a response in the format of "what could you be referring to?", but there is a whole blog post under the headline explaining the premise of the question (a premise which you may reasonably disagree with).

simlevesque

The US is instigating an economic war against the every single country in the world.

Americans pretending to be canadians while abroad to be treated better was already a thing before this happened.

Your reaction of ignoring this problem and acting as if all is normal because it doesn't affect you amplifies the problem.

thctphr

I've never heard of Americans disguising themselves as Canadians to be treated better while traveling abroad. I just looked into "Flag Jacking," an interesting concept. I travel quite a bit and have never done this, nor would I ever. If people treat me differently, it is a testament to their character. I don't have such hatred and bias toward people regardless of their government's position on certain topics.

There is a problem; it has existed for a long time and it's called complacency and stagnation.

mog_dev

Why would they be? We have enough of one threat on the east

kmeisthax

> Over that span, the time that felt most like our current situation came in 2002 and early 2003, when President George W. Bush began to pressure European allies to join the I-can’t-believe-we-actually-called-it-that “Coalition of the Willing” to invade Iraq, based on what turned out to be false claims. When France was reluctant to join our fight, the response of the American public was as immediate and intense as it was nonsensical. Many Americans, who insulted the French as “surrender monkeys,” pledged to rebrand French fries as “Freedom fries” and boycott French’s mustard… which is based in Rochester, New York. Sales of our tours and guidebooks in France took a significant hit.

One silver lining of the post-truth hellscape we live in is that it's far harder for the US government to directly manufacture consensus like this. In 2002 Bush had every US paper burying anything outside the narrative[0]. In 2025, if Trump so much as says the sky is blue, you'll see at least one clueless, schismogenic[1] idiot insisting that it's green, always been green, and that green is better. While that's an obviously stupid example, it's generally good that people are questioning ShitGovernmentsSay™.

Now if only we could get the MAGA hats to start questioning their chosen god-emperor...

[0] To be clear, most people in Europe knew Saddam wasn't buying yellowcakes, because the papers were reporting on the obvious falsity of the evidence over there.

[1] Schismogenesis is the process of social division, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schismogenesis

r0ckarong

If you actually perform all the steps to get a passport an leave the country to see the world for yourself that's a YUUGE (sic!) sign that you're not "one of those".

mvdtnz

According to my very quick googling the difference in the likelihood of owning a passport between republicans and democrats is only about three percentage points - hardly "YUUGE".