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AI Avatars Escape the Uncanny Valley

abxyz

Setting aside the uncanny valley, my understanding is that people like seeing people not because they look like people but because it conveys effort and investment on the part of another human being. We want to feel like we're worth someone else's time, in every context.

We don't like to interact with people just because that's the only way we can interact but because humans are human. AI avatars are the exact opposite: a statement of disinterest. If you don't care enough about my business to be on a sales call with me, why would I bother speaking to an AI avatar you send in your place? What's a thank you message without a human being actually taking the time to record it?

AI avatars seem a lot like crypto: they're a neat technology solving the wrong problem. The "inefficiency" of humans interacting with humans is the fundamental component of communication. I guess it's a lot like LLMs: instead of producing less content that is more valuable / thoughtful per unit, we're producing a lot more content that is much less valuable / thoughtful per unit. AI avatars will create more vacuous communication, not enable our communication to be more thoughtful.

Maybe human behavior will change because of this, maybe the next generation that grows up interacting with AI avatars won't have this same feeling that speaking to an actual human means something.

powvans

Spot on. There's something instinctual about this. My kids (13,10,8) all love making art. When I show them AI tools that they could use to generate art or riff on existing art, they are actively opposed. They tell me that AI art is not real art, that AI tools for doing this sort of thing are gross, and they want nothing to do with it.

As a technologist I think "omg this is so cool" and it has been genuinely surprising to see how they actively rebuff it.

tempodox

Be glad your kids have such healthy instincts. I keep being amazed how kids see through the BS that adults fall for.

bongodongobob

They are probably also afraid of the dark and think they'll see their dead pet in heaven.

whimsicalism

its because they are exposed to the internet and left-leaning culture from their schools, i highly doubt that is their first exposure reaction.

cryptopian

I think the most important word in the OP is

> My kids all love _making_ art

There's a real human sense of accomplishment and ownership when you put your own effort into making your own creations real. Typing words into a box to make a picture is a fun novelty, and might be useful to people who have to shovel images out the door, but I've never felt anything like the same satisfaction, and I'd imagine kids feel that innately.

miltonlost

Have you been on the internet lately? The manosphere is everywhere; right-wing discourse is the norm.

Left-leaning culture in schools? Such as what left-leaning cultures? That you think there is bias in education kind of shows your own biases/POV

gigatree

That’s why I disagree with the idea that salespeople will be the first to be replaced by AI. If anything, they’ll be the last to be replaced.

LikelyClueless

I think you just made me realize that I don't like interacting with salespeople because their behavior falls into some kind of uncanny valley.

cryptopian

We're definitely hard wired to recognise the difference between people being friendly to foster a good relationship and people being friendly because they've good ulterior motives

gigatree

Maybe they’re actually AI avatars! Or just bad salespeople

jmathai

I want to interact with a computer like it's a computer. Clicking, dragging and cursing.

Who wants to interact with a computer as if it were a human?

lenerdenator

People with exponentially more money than sense who sit in echo chambers.

xnx

So far the largest applications I've seen of AI avatars are deepfake-ish Musk videos on YouTube trying to scam people with some shitcoin, and pornography (as always).

> We expect this space will give rise to multiple billion-dollar companies,

The most miraculous thing about this wave of AI is how democratized it is and how resistant it has been to anyone making money of it.

asdfgjkl

So it's another case of "let's make a solution for nonexisting problem" in the world of AI?

We all hear promises of how AI will save the world and bring about technological innovation and solutions for hard problems, and what we get is replacement for a job that can be done much cheaper by a human being.

I am getting major crypto vibes here, promises of greatness and bringing nothing but unnecessary fluff.

geodel

> I am getting major crypto vibes here, promises of greatness and bringing nothing but unnecessary fluff.

This is A16z. Calling it unnecessary fluff would be rather polite. I think they are going hard core on to their next scam. Of course crypto vibes is no coincidence here.

NewJazz

What kind of ai might change your mind?

hellisothers

Ai that solves problems we have right now and under promises and over delivers. Right now I feel it’s mostly over promising solutions to gee-wiz things nobody needed.

bitbasher

The more AI stuff I see makes me want to purchase a cabin somewhere in remote Montana and start writing a journal.

NewJazz

A16z will find you and put you in a work camp sooner or later.

geodel

Will that work involve digging really deep hole for A16z partners to move in. (Of course to survive apocalypse that billionaire VCs are acutely worried about.)

null

[deleted]

ycitm

Doesn't seem to be any discernable improvement on the Zoom Cat Lawyer.

wellthisisgreat

I am not a cat

entrepy123

From TFA:

> Can’t you just generate an image of a face, animate it, and add a voiceover? Not quite. The challenge isn’t just nailing the lip sync — it’s making facial expressions and body language move in tandem. It would be weird if your mouth opened in surprise, but your cheeks and chin didn’t budge!

Starting here:

- "generate an image of a face, animate it, and add a voiceover?"

Tried this at [0]. Here's an example visual output:

- https://visualmic.com/example-animation-4.gif

Judge for yourself. You can see the mouth and eyebrows move in response to voice volume, and the eyes shift and blink according to settings. But no cheek movement, no head tilt, and no face shape change.

I think TFA is sort of right.

I'm not sure that face cap and AI are 100% needed, and most of the tools for making great VR models seem either pretty complicated or sort of privacy invading. But, better translating voice input into face changes does seem sort of needed.

There's "virtual Youtuber" (vtuber) software too, but that too seems some combination of complicated/clunky, resource intensive, and/or in signup-required land. [EDIT: Surely, there is a good front end at OpenLive3D [1], but making the .VRM model for it, e.g., with VRoid Studio [2] is where things seem start to get a little more time/energy-intensive.]

I'm not against pseudonymous avatars, but is there a third path? It should be easy and open, no? Gonna have to trawl through the suggestions of a16z on this one.

  [0] https://visualmic.com
  [1] https://openlive3d.com
  [2] https://vroid.com/en/studio

voidUpdate

Just to your point on vtubers, I agree that sometimes the software is a bit clunky, but my girlfriend was able to make herself an avatar and get it responding correctly quite easily. I had to help her with a couple of things, but that was mostly because she didn't know what she needed to look for. Plus, I think the final aim of this is different. VTubers, to me at least, are all about expressing yourself as something you want to be, not just... re-animating your own face? Not entirely sure what the purpose of this is

bpt3

When can we escape a16z ramming worse than useless concepts down our throats and telling us how great they are in a sanctimonious fashion?

That will be the greatest advancement of the millennium for humankind.

NewJazz

Don't go on HN. This is pretty much the only place that gives this guy attention from what I've seen.

geodel

TBH mainstream media has launched these guys into stratosphere. At least in here they do get fair amount of verbal lashing.

ssalka

This is besides the point, but the linked Monoverse / Unanswered Oddities videos are so good. Would definitely recommend, besides being hilariously funny it's a testament to what the average person can accomplish now if they actually want to put time into making good AI-based content.

torginus

This is just a personal preference thing - but I dislike any attempts at injecting artificial personhood - if they make an agentic personal assistant or whatever, I don't want to think of it as a person but a rather sophisticated tool. My phone uses AI to retouch the pictures it takes with its camera, but I don't have to exchange pleasantries with iPhone Clippy for it to do its thing - it just pretty much does.

I don't want artificial buddies, or servants or whatever except maybe in video games.

ruffrey

As exciting as the last couple years have been in the AI space, I totally agree.

There was an advertisement on Twitter a few years ago for Google Home. It was a video where a parent was putting their child to bed, and they said, "Ok Google, read Goodnight Moon."

It felt like a window into a viscerally dystopian future where we outsource human interaction to an AI.

whiplash451

« This has unlocked advertising for businesses that could never afford traditional ad production »

So glad to see SV focusing on first-order problems after all

imaginationra

I as an artist will be happy to see all these useless talking head "content creators" get replaced by AI Avatars-

So then only real artists and ai will remain- these "content creator" human avatar golems were always transitory anyway- software can chase algo's/trends better than any human so good riddance-

anon_hack33rr

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bigyabai

A16Z should rebrand as a ballistics company with the rate they've been shooting themselves in the foot recently.

geodel

Unless one drains out every last cent from these scammers. They keep coming up with new crap everyday.

isawczuk

Can you explain these statement? I'm probably out of the loop.

bpt3

Look up what they said about NFTs and web 3.0 in general for starters.

jsheard

They're still ride-or-die on crypto to this day, like that last soldier who never found out the war ended.