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Volkswagen's cheapest EV ever is the first to use Rivian software

senkora

I know that this is somewhat off topic but the writing in this passage is very odd:

> “This means the future entry-level Volkswagen can be equipped with new functions throughout its entire life cycle,” he said. “Even after purchase of a new car, the small Volkswagen can still be individually adapted to customer needs.”

I would rewrite it as:

> “This means the [car] can be equipped with new functions throughout its entire life cycle,” he said. “Even after purchase [...], [it] can still be individually adapted to customer needs.”

The original reminds me a bit of renowned author Dan Brown: https://onehundredpages.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/dont-make-f...

sdwr

After a decade off the burner, the Dan Brown-alike reads as self-possessed, hard-boiled, and a little playful. I think his sin against literature was (like most celebrities) rooted in overexposure, not anything fundamentally wrong with his style.

bagels

It's probably not going to be sold in the US, like every other more affordable electric car.

mrlonglong

I find it amusing that VW software architecture is called Cariad, as that's Welsh for Love.

NegativeLatency

> individually adapted to customer needs Are you, the driver, the customer is is this alluding to advertising, tracking and other such monetization?

justusthane

The article is light on technical details. Anyone have details on what this architecture is, and what makes it "next gen"?

justusthane

Probably related: https://stories.rivian.com/meet-the-new-r1

> Our second generation R1 vehicles feature an entirely new electrical architecture and compute platform developed in-house by our hardware and software team. This significant update to our onboard computing system makes our vehicles more robust, less costly to produce and easier to service — all while improving the experience for our customers. Our new system also dramatically improves scalability for deployment in future vehicles.

> Core to the new system is a substantial reduction in the number of electronic control units (ECUs) used to control the vehicle, down from 17 different ECUs in our first generation to just seven ECUs in our second generation. This massive simplification has been achieved by shifting to a zonal architecture and by significantly increasing the computational capabilities of each of our ECUs. While infotainment, autonomy, vehicle access, drive units and our battery management system each have their own ECU, every other vehicle function is controlled by just three ECUs.

> Shifting to a zonal system enabled us to remove over 1.6 miles (2.6km) of wiring from each vehicle, shedding 44 lbs (20kg) of weight. This reduction in wiring, along with the elimination of 10 ECUs, greatly reduces production costs. Fewer components needing to be installed during assembly also improves manufacturing efficiency, allowing us to build vehicles more quickly and with better quality. With less components onboard, vehicles are easier to service and require us to stock fewer parts, improving serviceability.

m4rtink

Doesn't that also mean more potentially safety critical stuff that was before separate now handled by the same ECU in software ?

afiori

> While infotainment, autonomy, vehicle access, drive units and our battery management system each have their own ECU, every other vehicle function is controlled by just three ECUs.

This looks like a list of safety critical systems

jillesvangurp

Sandy Munro did a deep dive Rivian's hardware and software a few weeks ago with their lead engineers. He actually did a series of videos talking about all aspects of all the changes they did in their latest vehicle architecture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DC5AIXX1VA

In short, Rivian reduced the number of control units from 17 to just 7. Software components are allocated to the an available unit. So, most stuff in the vehicle no longer has dedicated processors but simply gets allocated to share hardware with all the other systems. Doing that means less wires are needed, less thing can go wrong, etc. And it all gets over the air updates.

They develop most stuff in house; so they are not dependent on suppliers providing software for their hardware. So, that means it's easier to change things, to update things, etc. without having to deal with suppliers.

I assume, they are talking about bringing similar changes to VW. Same OS, same kind of processing units, probably a lot of the modules, etc. So when VW talks about a software defined car, that's what they mean.

6SixTy

VW has always had the chance to bring more than the ID.4 and Buzz to US/CAN for a more affordable EV but they've never really done it. With BYD taking on a huge customer base, it kind of begs the question who is this for?

mmooss

Due to the Republican-backed tarrifs, people in the US may not be able to buy it for awhile, if ever.

pqtyw

Volkswagen began manufacturing ID.4 in the US back in 2022 and even before that AFAIK most of the cars they sold in the US weren't imported from Europe.

Of course they might decide that there might not be enough demand for small budget cars in the US to even offer this model but I doubt tariffs would be the primary reason.

mmooss

Thanks. I assume the tarrifs apply to foreign-made, not foriegn-owned manufacturing (i.e., the VW plant in the US isn't affected). Also, their supply chains will be affected - I'd guess VW's plant has more non-US suppliers but that's not necessarily true.

jafo1989

Are they banned in the US?

bunabhucan

They are made in TN and they sell 10-20k per year.

https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/volkswagen/id4

null

[deleted]

toast0

Is BYD competing in the US/CAN market for passenger automobiles? Presumably VW is building a more affordable EV for the rest of world market where BYD is selling cars?

I've seen some BYD busses, Facebook was using them when I was there, but I don't see any indication that their passenger cars have arrived in US/CA?

pqtyw

Clearly primarily the European market? Both EU and US has put on pretty high tariffs on Chinese EVs so they should have a much easier time competing with BYD.

bsder

$42K-$60K doesn't score as "affordable"

I'm normally all about local manufacturing, but I'm rooting for BYD to come in and splatter all the big car manufacturers.

The markups on EVs are ridiculous given how much cheaper they are to manufacture.

kelafoja

Perhaps for those who would not like to buy cars from China.

krunck

> Volkswagen’s ultra-cheap EV called the ID EVERY1

Uh, sounds more like facial recognition software than a car.

I can't wait for someone to sell affordable EVs in the US. I'm thinking about something like an electric Geo Metro.

tzs

Chevy is still saying that when the Bolt returns in late 2025 its MSRP will be around $28-30k.

bdamm

So... the Nissan Leaf?

ElectRabbit

RIP Cariad

ChrisArchitect

Related from 2 weeks ago:

Volkswagen seeks to counter rivals with budget EV model

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43274698

14

Felt like a pr piece when the first line said “ultra cheap”. $21,500 is no ultra cheap when you compare it to vehicles like the Chinese made BYD brand some of which are $9700.

Yes it is nice to see prices come down but you are not going to convince me and millions of others that this is ultra cheap.

avgDev

For the US market $21,500 would be quite cheap.

nickthegreek

Agreed. I would trade in my current vehicle for this in a heartbeat if the topspeed was 100 and not 80.

tinyrichard

If they did a hot hatch version I'd consider breaking my vow to never have a new car or payment again.

manmal

Where do you get these prices from? The cheapest BYD selling in Germany is 30k, as far as I can see. With a 20k vehicle launching sometime in 2025.

p1necone

21500 seems pretty cheap to me? Surely the most price conscious consumers would be looking at the second hand market instead anyway given how rapidly car value drops off once they're driven out of the lot.

ceejayoz

Do the BYD ones comply with European crash/safety standards?

mattlondon

Looks like 5 star ratings across the board for BYD vehicles on-sale in Europe https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/latest-safety-ra...

Would not say these are ultra-cheap. There is probably a lot of "price that the market can sustain" going on here, rather than what it costs them to build the cars

ceejayoz

> BYD vehicles on-sale in Europe

But those aren't the sub-$10k ones, right?

netsharc

Got me curious, I feel like it's cheaper to build a car that complies to global safety standards rather than make differing models for domestic (Chinese) and foreign markets.

At least they have 5 stars in the Euro NCAP assessment: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/82666/euroncap-2023-byd-dolph...

And they're being sold in Mexico in N. America, for 358,800 pesos (1), which is $18,000!

(1) https://mexico.as.com/motor/byd-dolphin-mini-que-tiene-de-es...

DrNosferatu

Chinese market BYDs are much cheaper because, allegedly, they don’t comply with EuroNCAP (European safety standards).

European spec BYDs tend to have 5-star (max) crash ratings.

manmal

Not to my knowledge, if you mean the models for the Chinese market. A 10k model in China is also vastly different from a 30k model in Europe. It’s quite an unfair comparison.

pqtyw

Regardless of that you can't buy any of the $10k models in Europe anyway.

2Gkashmiri

Tata punch EV does global ncap 5 star rating at around $10k

sottol

Quick googling showed the Tata Punch EV to cost between $15k-$19k. Afaik, the BYD Seagull is also targeting under 20k EUR in Europe, double the price in China. Might be tariffs.

NotYourLawyer

You can’t buy them in the US though. They might as well not exist.

tzs

For BYD there is a kind of backdoor.

You could move to Nuevo Laredo in Mexico, which is on the US/Mexico border, and buy a Mexican BYD. Register it in Mexico and get a Mexican driver's license.

Right on the other side of the border is Laredo, Texas, making it easy to come to the US for most things you want to do outside of your home if you don't want to do them in Mexico.

Google is telling me that crossing the border into the US at Laredo is usually pretty quick and easy for a US citizen.

Maybe VW will also bring its cheap EVs to Mexico?

thuanao

What is it with Americans these days?

stephenr

Because as we all know the other 7.9B people on the planet never drive. Cars are clearly a uniquely American concept.

pqtyw

Well you can't buy them in Europe either. They are planning to launch a €20k model this year, currently the cheapest car BYD offers seems to be around €30k.