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Tesla gets more than 20% of parts from Mexico, it will be affected by tariffs

whoitwas

Why are we attacking our allies like this? What have Mexico and Canada done? Or Greenland, Panama, the EU? Why are we aligned with Russia over our allies? Who benefits from this?

tim333

Mostly because the current president likes tariffs and Russia and doesn't seem to like his democratic allies much. But I'm not sure it's of much benefit to the rest of America.

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onlyrealcuzzo

This has nothing to do with enemies.

How does anyone not see what is happening.

They want to replace income tax (progressive) with tariffs (regressive).

mullingitover

The problem with this is that it would at most replace a fraction of income taxes.

My theory is that it's just another lever that's being pulled to centralize power in the executive. The president can pick winners and losers because the power to levy tariffs is surgical, and so individual companies can be targeted if they don't fall in line with the dictator's whims.

Imagine Apple facing 1000% tariffs unless they take down content that's critical of the president. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

c0nducktr

>The problem with this is that it would at most replace a fraction of income taxes.

Yeah, but it isn't like they're unaware of this. They're looting the country. If the money gained from the tariffs wont offset the tax cuts, well that must mean we need to cut further, privatize further...

ofrzeta

> Imagine Apple facing 1000% tariffs unless they take down content that's critical of the president. It's not outside the realm of possibility.

It's totally not. And the funny thing is nobody will speak up.

whoitwas

There plan that passed the house is to reduce income tax on households that make over $360000 annually. So we're shifting that burden to consumers who spend a much larger percentage of their income on the goods subject to tariffs? And why tariff our good allies instead of enemies?

kyriakos

Higher trade value with friends then enemies (except China which is already tariffed)

m463

Would tariffs affect higher-income folks (imported goods) vs low-income (local food/shelter/clothing)?

Wonder if there's a non-partisan/non-biased website that could give a clear picture

drunner

You don't need a non biased website to tell you that. Goods costing %25 more affects the low income folks way more.

Think about it this way, eggs go from $3 to $10. Someone with high income is barely affected. If you make min wage at $7 an hour its a huge burden.

jmathai

This helps explain where we're at and where we're headed (Gary's Economics) - https://youtu.be/TflnQb9E6lw?si=3zz9ty4RCew4VzVI

xnx

Republicans have aligned themselves with Russia. The "West" is now the enemy.

fasbiner

Democrat-leaning foreign policy realists like George Kennan and John Mearsheimer and even liberal economists like Jeff Sachs warned about the likely outcome of these policies 30+ years ago.

These ideas were free for anyone of any party to pick up, but it was easier to ignore the cracks in the liberal internationalist fantasies. So, expect to continue to make incorrect predictions and to face further electoral defeats.

The very impulse to try hide this comment in anger instead of reply rationally is part of why Trump won, and will continue to win no matter how foolish he acts.

_DeadFred_

Mearsheimer is an idiot. From his talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVozNtCDM

his 'realism' is based on...

"...Putin rarely lies to foreign audiences”

Which is just plain not true.

https://euideas.eui.eu/2022/07/11/john-mearsheimers-lecture-...

whoitwas

We hate ourselves now?

knowknow

Trump got popular by contradicting the status quo. A lot of people are disgruntled by it, so anything that disrupts it is applauded.

whoitwas

Upsetting our friends is to be applauded? While we cozy up to Russia?

knowknow

Yes, that’s how these people think. I fundamentally disagree with it and thinks it’s destructive to society, but these people want to watch things get destroyed. This is why they also applaud cuts in welfare and the federal government. Anything that is part of status quo is considered part of the swamp, so it must burn.

fasbiner

Countries don't have friends, they only have interests. Thinking in terms of a kindergarten and not in terms of geopolitics disqualifies you from serious participation.

suzzer99

Except for the people who were doing fine with the status quo and just voted for Trump because he triggers the libs. They might have a wake-up call coming.

bamboozled

I think people were made to be disgruntled though, it's falsely directed anger. Whether or not that matters is irrelevant for now. From everything I've seen a lot of the anger was misdirected.

If things keep going the way they're going though, you might see some proper revolt sooner or later.

bamboozled

I think people are in denial but don't you think you're answering your question with your question ?

What about Ukraine? No more weapons or intelligence, just as it starting to get even worse for Russia. Hmm how weird?

I can fully imagine a time in the near future where you will see US arms and fighters going to Russia and people will be fine with that because their leader said so.

Which other country would be obsessed with Greenland? Doesn't the US already have a military presence there? Isn't already a US ally ? Odd ?

gruez

> [...] just as it starting to get even worse for Russia. Hmm how weird?

Says who? The sources I've read do not suggest things are "starting to get even worse for Russia". It was slowly making gains, albeit at a huge cost. At best it was a stalemate.

eg.

"Amid talk of a ceasefire, Ukraine’s front line is crumbling"

https://www.economist.com/europe/2025/01/27/amid-talk-of-a-c...

"Ukraine is now struggling to cling on, not to win"

https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/10/29/ukraine-is-now-s...

bamboozled

I'm reading the opposite, Ukraine is taking back ground and Russia's Pokrovsk is going backwards. I've also read reports there have been mass surrenders and disobedience in the Russian ranks.

Mostly I follow "Ukraine the latest", I've listened everyday for 3 years and I don't think they lie because I've listened to it through some VERY tough and depressing times for Ukraine. So it's not just one sided.

Denys Davydov is also good, once again very honest guy on Youtube. Also tells it like it is, also reported some very tough times. He is Ukrainian, yes but if you follow him, you will see he is objective.

Those photos of Russians on buildings with flags aren't good indicators of anything, they've been doing that for years now, they ordered to put themselves at risks for those photo ops, they're propaganda.

I can't read the Economist article but I keep seeing Trump saying how dire it is for Ukraine but I believe he is lying and saying that to justify his extortionist behavior towards Ukraine and to force Zelensky into to a deal.

If it was that bad the war would've been over years ago. I think Trump's betrayal will make it pretty bad for them though. Let's see what Europe can come up with.

It also seems like a LOT of Ukraine's success has been from FPV drone usage, they seem to be further ramping that up and also have ramped up production.

blackeyeblitzar

> Doesn't the US already have a military presence there?

Not anymore. What was Thule air base got converted to a space force early warning type base. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituffik_Space_Base

> Which other country would be obsessed with Greenland?

China is obsessed with Greenland, which is why the US now is. You can find many articles on China’s interest in Greenland, going back years (before Trump). Some even suggest that China has been looking to get more infrastructure contracts there to control Greenland through debt.

For the US and EU, preventing China’s access to the Arctic is important. But also Greenland happens to have rare earth deposits, which are useful because China is going to hold back supply of various resources like rare earths and titanium.

WatchDog

Regardless of what it's mission is, and which military branch operates the base, it still counts as the US having a military presence.

m4rtink

Isn't mining anything in Greenland bloody hard given the arctic climate ? It kinda has so low population and small economy for a reason & I don't think global warming will measurably help with it.

ctrlp

The US would be quite lucky if Russia turned back to a frenemy relationship with NATO. It seems highly unlikely that will happen given the last 15 years of conflict. The attempt to Balkanize and neuter Russia looks like an abject failure. Throwing more arms and Ukrainian youth into that meat grinder is a very cynical way to proceed. Rather than growing closer to Europe via trade and energy interdependence, the strategy in Ukraine and Syria has driven Russia further into alliance with China and Iran. Looks like a mistake in hindsight. Would have been better to cultivate Russia against China and align Russian interests with Europe rather than Beijing.

ctrlp

Before the negative reviews come pouring, consider that the rise of China was the result of exactly this strategy in reverse. At the time "Nixon in China" was an attempt to support a largely agrarian Chinese communist state to give Russia (the stronger competitor) something to worry about on its eastern flank. Strengthening and emboldening the communist "little brother" was a deliberate foreign policy goal during the Cold War. This strategy was what the protean Henry Kissinger was most famous for at the time. Talk about unforeseen consequences. Maybe we bet on the wrong horse. China in 2025 seems like a much more serious global competitor than Russia. Ask yourself, who would you rather compete with?

hobs

You do realize nobody wanted to do that, and Putin's aggressive thuggery is 100% the reason why Russia has been isolated. Cultivating an invader doesn't make sense for anyone.

panick21_

That's EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. Literally all of Europe and the US bent over backwards for Russia. German made it one of there central geopolitical missions to integrate Russia. They invaded Georgia and did many other questionable things, then took Crimea and still most countries were willing to basically not upset the Apple cart. So they did 'cultivate' Russia.

Russia always loves to only talk about NATO and how bad it is. But NATO actually helped Russia because it let the Eastern European feel save and that convinced them that economic collaboration with Russia was in their benefit. And it also passivized these countries, making them far less militarist. Without NATO, these countries would have invested far more in conventional defense for the last 30 years and would have refused any Russian integration.

But at some point cultivation goes to far and you can't just forever say 'well we need Russia against China so they can have Ukraine', 'well we need Russia against China so the can have Georgia', 'well we need Russia against China so they can have the Baltics'.

Like at some point 'cultivating' only works if you have a partner on the other side that has even the slightest interest in cooperation. Russia elites care about their own power, and that power is threatened by justice and democracy, not China. They will not switch and view China as their enemy unless China want to start to be an enforcer of democracy or actively take Russian land.

China knows this and is prepared to wait to get back their Russian territory (and maybe more). China is well aware that Russia is a massively declining power, suffering from massive brain-drain, bad demographics, surviving off left over Soviet industry and massive amount of natural resources (that China can already acquire). So China, despite Russia owning a lot of land that China absolutely believes is theirs, will focus on the US because the West, is a much bigger economic, political and ideological competitor.

So the simply reality is, as long as China has major 'Western' allies close to its borders, you will simply not get Russia and China to really go at each other as they did during the Communist competition days. No matter what day dreaming old Cold Wars have about doing the Sino-Soviet split again.

> Throwing more arms and Ukrainian youth into that meat grinder is a very cynical way to proceed.

Its not cynical if the population there actually wants that. This is not a case where Ukraine has some dictator who is doing some vanity invasion of foreign territory. Its not even like Afghanistan. Because in Ukraine you actually have a pontifical system that can be converted into a long time useful ally.

> driven Russia further into alliance with China and Iran

This is always the fear mongering people use. But this has a number of limitations. First, non of these countries actually like each other. Russia and Iran work together but don't like each other. Russia and China are the same. Russia know well that China really wants to own 80% of Russia, even if this isn't their primary focus right now. They will never be true allies as the US is in NATO, its just not happening. Unless maybe where one is a complete client state of the other.

And in terms of commercial relationship, oil and weapons, they are already doing that. Appeasing Russia in Europe doesn't massively pull them away from China and Iran. Sure maybe they sell slightly less oil in that direction, but the relationships aren't effected that much.

At the end of the day, these 3 regimes, have one thing in common, they don't want Western values based system of values and worst of all democracy. So they will always cooperate along that line.

PS:

> The attempt to Balkanize and neuter Russia looks like an abject failure.

Overall, its not except its not a failure at all. Finland, Baltics, Poland and all the others are now well integrated into Europe and will never go back to being Russian in any sense.

testrun

Putin.

thrance

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chairmansteve

It will get a waiver.

foogazi

Or get postponed like all car tariffs

Or reduced like energy imports

It's just a scam

bdangubic

trump gonna do this oprah style on tv, “you get a waiver, you get a waiver, EVERYBODY gets a waiver” :)

morkalork

Mexico should fill in that gap with an export tax then

EGreg

why would it get a waiver?

Mexico is already paying for the wall, so... why should they pay here too?

YokoZar

The simple answer is because waivers are at the discretion of the administration.

Terr_

I'm confused by your post, because if I squint it seems like there are multiple ways to interpret it:

1. User legitimately doesn't know that tariffs are a tax against the importer, meaning parts-importer Tesla might seek a personalized tax-break, and because Musk's buddy Trump is a corrupt crook he might command the government to grant it.

2. User doesn't realize Trump can corruptly give Musk an exception, and furthermore is also asking why Mexico would want to impose a responding tax on their own exporters, just to punish them for making sales to US-Tesla.

3. It's actually all sarcasm in one way or another, but Poe's Law is too strong and pretending to be a Redcap looks like actually being one.

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TheSpiceIsLife

I guess the reasoning goes something like: Tesla / Musk / Broligarcy.

CottonMcKnight

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..."

If the Line Item Veto was unconstitutional, then Congress surrendering its power to the President to not only impose tariffs unilaterally but then to _exempt_ favored parties from them, is not only blatantly corrupt, but clearly also unconstitutional.

But I'm not holding my breath for sanity from the Originalist Court.

Terr_

To put a slightly finer point on it, I have described it to my federal legislators[' answering machines] as an on-demand, retroactive, reversible, line-item veto.

More-importantly, what does it mean in a representative democracy, when a majority of legislators reach a "compromise" by passing a bill... and then one side simply violates the laws they just voted for because they don't like those parts? It's the same as making a trade with someone and then they take our a gun and mug you for your wallet.

In short, the federal legislative process died last month, and Republicans murdered it.

It is literally not possible to resurrect it until after Republicans throw away the murder-weapon. The main question now is how long Democrats will be in a state of denial like a battered spouse.

__egb__

Oh, come on now, this one’s easy. They can just activate Textualist-mode and say that that if the founders wanted this clause to apply to tariffs then they should have explicitly used the word ‘tariffs’.

jeffbee

Even if you think that it is constitutional to delegate this power to the executive, it's clearly inconsistent with Biden v. Nebraska, where the supreme court ruled that the executive can't even exercise powers that congress explicitly delegated (when a Democrat is president only, for some reason).

alabastervlog

He’s also abusing the way the power’s delegated. He only declared the “fentanyl emergency” because unilateral tariffs are an emergency power. So then he tariffs China more (ok, sure, he doesn’t actually care about the fentanyl thing but fine I guess) and then also… Mexico? Ok they cooperate pretty well when we don’t levy tariffs so seems like that should have been like step fifty if things went poorly, but… I guess? Oh but also Canada, which no sane analysis would judge is relevant to his “fentanyl emergency”, so clearly he’s just full of shit and wanted to seize some power.

jeffbee

I have a feeling that the net flow of contraband across the Canadian border is northward, giving the Canadian Fentanyl Czar the opportunity to clown on Trump by imprisoning Americans.

fastball

Slightly tangential to the article itself, but quite relevant to the overall vibe of this comment section (and others like it): it seems like a large percentage of the HN community genuinely thinks that we should always do whatever is best for ourselves personally when it comes to politics.

"Voting against their own interests" has been a common refrain around here for the last months/years, usually in reference to Trump supporters and usually in reference to economic interests, as if your own personal economic benefit is the only thing that matters when in the voting booth.

Maybe some people believe in more than just their own economic self-interest? In fact, Benjamin Franklin once said that "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." And yet I feel like there are many commenters around here who are effectively encouraging everyone to do that, and/or gleefully experiencing schadenfreude when people don't do that.

Now that I have articulated this though, I realize maybe a community built around a startup accelerator is exactly the place you'd find people that fixate on economic self-interest.

myhf

Norwegian citizens found that they could vote themselves money and it worked out fine. It's almost always a better strategy than voting to give money to oligarchs.

fastball

I'd argue that rather than vote themselves money, they voted for sharing the exceedingly plentiful (relative to population) natural resources of their country.

But yes, that does seem to be a version of "vote yourself money" that is far less problematic than other instantiations.

laughing_man

That's because there aren't many Norwegians and Norway has a lot of oil. It's one of the few countries where they can afford to do so.

And nobody is voting to give money to oligarchs. We'd just rather not have our country spend itself into the third world.

stephen_g

Ironically the result of all the cuts will likely be a reduction in the size of the economy - which can actually lower the tax take too (a portion of the money flowing around the economy comes back in taxes) so the combination of that will likely be an increase in the US's debt to GDP ratio and reduced living standards for most people.

That is not to say that Governments can spend to excess with no consequences of course, but that these indiscriminate cuts are likely going to have the opposite effect as intended.

3vidence

Beyond economic self-interest, maybe particularly in the USA it is possible to vote for people who can actively undermine your vote in the future.

Pretty long history in the US of gerrymandering, ID voter laws and reducing voting stations that pretty directly limit people's ability to vote.

I think anger just blocks rational thought.

fastball

I don't think those examples make any sense in the context of voting for self-interest.

- gerrymandering: voting for someone that will gerrymander is once again voting for your own interests (this time at the expense of democratic values). If the prone-to-gerrymander candidate you are voting for does in fact gerrymander, it is likely to be in favor of that political party (which is the one you voted for).

- Voter ID: I think everyone who wants stronger voter ID laws and is voting for them is not particularly worried about not having an ID when it comes time to vote in the next election.

- Reducing voting stations is an interesting one, but again I think most of the people who would vote for a party that reduces voting stations are not worried about access to them (either because they can easily take time off to vote, they are quite mobile, or because they are happy with mail-in-ballots).

So I think you are helping make my point, but in the opposite direction of how you meant – those are a bunch of examples of people voting selfishly in a way that could hurt democracy. I want people that would vote for such things to vote against their own self-interest, and instead vote for what is best for the health of our democratic republic.

cratermoon

Fact: There are people who will tell you with a straight face how they voted for Trump even though he promised to do things that would harm them because they didn't believe him, that it was campaign rhetoric.

This isn't "I never thought the face-eating leopards would eat my face", this is "I didn't think the face-eating leopards would actually eat faces, I thought it was just a campaign slogan".

fastball

Yes, those people are dumb, however it doesn't really affect the main my point of my comment (which was a bit meander-y I admit), which was merely that "voting against your own self-interest" isn't necessarily a bad thing.

rpmisms

OK, but how will they be affected relative to other car companies?

steveBK123

Other automakers are arguably worse off as they operate factories on both sides of the border, have more complex supply chains and are less agile. I honestly don't know how the auto industry is going to survive this chaos. These guys have 5 year lead times on designs, assembly lines, suppliers, supply chains, etc. How does any of that work with weekly tariff policy changes? I wonder if it's all going to backfire and we'll see more cars just fully assembled overseas & shipped in, regardless of tariff.

Tesla has a lot more agility in swapping parts out and handling any differences in software, for better or worse. We saw this during the pandemic with chip shortages.

They have a much more move-fast-and-break-things mentality so for example while they are first to put tablet screens in cars, they were not automative grade which is what lead to a lot of short lifespans in early Model S vehicles. Similar for the flash memory rewrite issue affecting early models.

rpmisms

The screen was never an issue in the 2012-2014 Model S, it was just the adhesive. The flash memory issue did affect my old car, very annoying.

What you said makes sense in terms of relative effect. I think most--if not all--of the companies will come to the admin looking for an adjustment, and they'll get one.

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refactor_master

Would Musk/Tesla theoretically have money enough to just eat the losses themselves for the first 6 months or so, and then secretly jack up the prices with a dumb excuse attached, when Trumpists have forgotten about the possibly that tariffs could backfire?

steveBK123

MAGA is not buying Tesla vehicles, regardless of their enjoyment of his recent politics.

laughing_man

Tesla isn't a hugely profitable company. I suspect what will happen here is they'll get a waiver on the import duties if they promise to move the production to the US over some number of years.

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johnea

I'm sure Elon is horrified.

Imagine if he lost a $100B and was only worth $1/4T?

How would he even get by?