Scanning ultrasound removes amyloid-β, restores memory in Alzheimer mouse model (2015)
37 comments
·January 11, 2025twasold
This needs (2015). Surely if ultrasound was effective in replicated studies we’d have a treatment by now, right? Or have heard more about it?
YZF
This assumes anyone attempted to replicate it or otherwise pursue it. I guess the question would be where are the studies that failed to replicate it.
I have friends that work in the medical tech field. A device they started developing around 2009 is barely getting into the field now after animal trials and clinical trials around the globe. It's an extremely long process requiring a lot of capital. And you likely haven't heard of it either (it is pretty effective for treating some heart related issues).
There are plenty of animal studies that show some promise that are simply abandoned for various reasons.
All that said, I thought the hypothesis that those amyloids are the cause of Alzheimers hasn't really worked out, there were other drugs that targetted those and apparently didn't work that well.
boxed
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-021-00809-4 (2021) is the second hit on google scholar. Sounds a bit more involved than just ultrasound.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13195-022-00981-1 sounds mildly promising in one way, and disappointing viewed another way...
pstuart
It takes a long time to go from the lab to commercialized use.
dsjoerg
[flagged]
technojunkie
60 minutes did a segment for this type of treatment at WVU Rockefeller Neuroscience in West Virginia. It's intriguing.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neurosurgeon-works-to-slow-alzh...
transistor-man
This paper was submitted march 2015, have there been subsequent studies in the last decade?
null
mmastrac
Why would ultrasound removal of amyloid-B be effective while other chemical/medical treatments offering the same would not?
Krssst
> Transgenic mice with increased amyloid-β (Aβ) production
Looks to me they increased amyloid-B then removed the increase, which solved symptoms. I don't know much about this but my understanding was that Alzheimer disease had to have a bit more going on than just amyloid-B accumulation.
resoluteteeth
Yes that is the major potential problem with this type of mouse model in general. Mice are modified to have a condition that resembles something like alzheimer's disease and then treatments are tested, but there's no guarantee that the underlying disease is actually the same, so if the condition that is induced in the mice is just a symptom rather than the underlying cause of the human disease, or just superficially resembles it, the treatment may not actually be effective in humans.
hnuser123456
Percussive maintenance is sometimes the most effective option.
pera
> Anti-amyloids are expensive, and insurance won’t always cover them
https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/anti-amyloid-therapies-alzh...
> the key reason donanemab isn’t available through the NHS is its cost. The treatment is estimated to cost around £25,000 a year per patient
https://theconversation.com/alzheimers-drug-approved-in-the-...
twasold
Insurance doesn’t cover them precisely because they don’t work.
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/does-it-work-does-...
0cf8612b2e1e
Beat me to it. Relevant Derek Lowe quote from a different article.
But as I did when I wrote about the lecanemab data, let’s get some of the disclaimers out of the way at the beginning. I mentioned there that no Alzheimer’s drug candidate has ever stopped the progression of disease, and that of course means that no such candidate has ever reversed any of the damage, either. See below for more on that as it relates to donanemab, but what we’re looking for in all these cases is essentially slowing down the rate at which these patients deteriorate.
…
But here goes: lecanemab slowed decline by 27% on the CDR-SB scale, and donanemab slowed it by 29%. As you will can see from my earlier writeup on the former drug, opinion was very much divided on whether the lecanemab numbers would even be noticeable in real-world use (there is no standard for clinically meaningful efficacy in CDR-SB changes). So I would have to think that the same objections apply here. We cannot be sure that this drug will actually make a difference in the real-world care of patients with Alzheimer’s - not yet, anyway. This point is completely avoided in the Lilly press release, but it is nonetheless real and we will be hearing more about it from clinicians - well, if you listen closely above all the noise, that is.
walterbell
1Mhz ultrasonic _physical_ therapy devices are under $100, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3810427/ (2012)
> Applications of ultrasound in medicine for therapeutic purposes have been an accepted and beneficial use of ultrasonic biological effects for many years. Low power ultrasound of about 1 MHz frequency has been widely applied since the 1950s for physical therapy.. In this overview, the Bioeffects Committee outlines the wide range of therapeutic ultrasound methods, which are in clinical use or under study, and provides general guidance for assuring therapeutic ultrasound safety.
tonetegeatinst
For ultrasound, are only certain frequencys possible or are they just not manufactured?
I know basically nothing except ultrasound being used for the ultrasonic cleaning devices I see some youtubers using.
yalogin
Doesn’t this raise more questions though? If ultrasound impacts chemicals in the body, what about other forms of waves? Do we still have to find out how the body reacts to different frequencies and wavelengths?
sokka_h2otribe
The impact of ultrasound on dissolving and breaking things in liquid is well studied in general engineering. I don't understand your open ended question about this raising questions. How so? We don't use microwaves for dissolving or breaking crystals anyway like we already do for ultrasound.
yalogin
Ah I did not know it’s already understood, so assumed we are finding it out for the first time. The above comment was a mistake then, it’s how misinformation and scaremongering starts
dingdingdang
Any indication of what frequencies are at play here? A regular ultrasound baby monitor is set at either 3Mhz or 2Mhz scan frequency and those have already been shown to induce stimulating effect when used on the head/brain afaicr.
snitty
If we haven't seen positive results in humans I'm gonna guess it being a lot harder to push ultrasound through a human skull than a mouse skull is part of the reason.
sneak
Given that there doesn’t appear to be any harms from this treatment, why is it moral (or legal) to prevent humans from experimentally seeking it, standard “in mice” argument notwithstanding?
andy_ppp
I don’t disagree but an issue could be that there’s plenty of people out there who would happily make up therapies that sound like they could work and take people’s money for unsound treatments.
gklitz
The framework for clinical trials it to go from “there doesn’t appear to be any harm” to “we have reasonable proof that no harm is expected”.
If this is as promising as it sounds it’ll surely process through the stages as it should and eventually reach human trials.
Nuzzerino
Eventually plus 10 years, as this article is 10 years old.
nine_k
Business opportunity: add a 2 MHz ultrasound enmitter to standard headphones.
aeve890
I'll deep-fry and eat a brick and wash it down with motor oil if Apple ended up curing Alzheimer's
deepnet
Ultrasound selfies at home, clinical trial reports self administered ultrasound scans on par with professional ones.
https://www.nibib.nih.gov/news-events/newsroom/ultrasound-se...
wetpaws
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andrewstuart
Things are so good medically for mice.
ruined
you can buy a veterinary ultrasound machine on ebay for under $3k, btw.
if anyone tries this let me know how it goes
mikewarot
You know the brain is about the consistency of jelly, right? If you were to induce cavitation, that could cause quite a bit of brain damage in nothing flat.
First person experimentation is a distinctly bad idea. The other is also a bad idea.
Community, exercise, species-appropriate diet, and psychological richness also reduce the risk of Alzheimer's and a variety of neurological disorders.