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Spotify reportedly investigating Anna's Archive's scraping of their library

ipsum2

Anti scraping measures are making it more difficult to use the web. I can't load a single GitHub pull request without being accused of botting.

Aurornis

> I can't load a single GitHub pull request without being accused of botting.

The only time I encountered this was after a power outage when my ISP's DHCP server handed me a new IP that was tainted. It felt like every major website was suddenly full of captchas.

Eventually I had to unplug the router for 24 hours until the ISP let go of my DHCP reservation. When I reconnected it gave me a new IP and the problems went away.

int32_64

Convenience won.

How many people are actually going to download a torrent client, navigate through some massive torrent file collection to check the files of the artists they want to download so they can upload mp3s to their phone over a USB cable like it's 2004 again, just so they can avoid paying Spotify?

cakealert

A sufficiently seeded torrent is a high latency static CDN.

You just need a client that can make use of it.

I'm not sure if anyone will be interested in making one however, you can already get a patched Spotify APK from the usual mobile piracy spaces that's good enough.

Raed667

Wasn't popcorntime basically a video streaming backed by torrent ? Why can't it be the same for audio ?

The metadata is 200 GB which can be easily indexed and could be made searchable, then you download only what you need

madduci

And specifically, not everybody owns a NAS with 300 TB capacity. At 30TB drive for almost 1000€, we are talking about 10-15000€.

As mentioned in other stories, this is really welcomed by other big corps or LLM related companies

realusername

Great, so the copyright conglomerates have nothing to complain about if it's useless then.

breppp

Probably a net positive for future open source music generation LLM models

aiisimmoral

Which means a net negative for humanity.

breppp

Depends, the camera killed painting and is a positive for art in my opinion

It's not obvious that LLM generation won't create more interesting music experiences (for lack of non-marketing speak for self curated music)

_fzslm

Arguably, the camera evolved painting because it expanded the idea of what it could be – that it could be more than the illustration of/"illusion" of reality.

I think and have always thought the exact same thing will happen with generative AI.

galleywest200

The camera did not kill painting. There are tons and tons of painters still, lots of them use digital means like a tablet these days but it still absolutely exists.

bopbopbop7

The camera did not kill painting. And how does comparing a camera to an LLM even make sense?

firloop

I wish Spotify welcomed or collaborated with these archival initiatives. Anna's Archive does not compete with Spotify in any way.

thenthenthen

I am flabbergasted by the comments here, Spotify started with pirated music and now invests in the military.

https://torrentfreak.com/how-the-pirate-bay-helped-spotify-b...

And

https://djmag.com/news/spotifys-daniel-ek-leads-eu600-millio...

Aurornis

> I wish Spotify welcomed or collaborated with these archival initiatives.

Spotify licenses the music in their library under specific terms. They don't own it. They can't just decide to give out freely on their own terms.

> Anna's Archive does not compete with Spotify in any way.

I think HN often underestimates the breadth of casual piracy among the general public who want to avoid paying $10/month for a service. There are already numerous tools to stream TV shows and movies from torrents on demand. I have no doubt the same will appear for a giant archive of Spotify music. A lot of people will jump at any chance to cancel their Spotify subscription if they can get close to the same access for free.

firloop

I doubt such a tool would be allowed in the major mobile app stores. The library of music isn't the product.

ragazzina

Stremio is on the App Store and can be used with a debrid service.

twostorytower

Anna's archive offers to share their data for AI training (in exchange for donations), so that's certainly something the record labels want control of. https://annas-archive.org/llm

maxloh

I don't think music producer would agree to that. Spotify would likely lose contracts even if they simply opted for silence.

rendaw

It's probably up to the publishers, not them.

I buy my music, but at the same time I respect that Spotify is a bit more unified than any of the 100 video streaming services that don't have the one thing I want to watch.

o_____________o

Simply sharing metadata, related artists, genres, etc would create a pretty interesting ecosystem[1].

[1]: https://everynoise.com/

piva00

Every Noise was created by a former Spotify employee.

vintermann

He's a former Spotify employee now, but he was a Spotify employee when he made it. I think it hasn't been updated since he lost his data access.

I have a lot of respect for Glenn McDonald for spam fighting all these years on Spotify, but we can go better than PCA for mapping music these days. Any neural embedding model is going to produce more meaningful axes. In fact Spotify had an intern who did just that, just before the launch of Discover Weekly: Sander Dieleman. Along with Aäron van den Oord he was snapped up by Deepmind after their Spotify internship. Those two guys were (and are) wildly good at what they do.

tene80i

Not even in the “providing a way to get music” way?

nemomarx

A big database that contains every song is pretty different from a recommendation system, web streaming, playlists, etc. Someone could use the dump to create something like that ofc, but the database itself isn't really the interesting thing Spotify offers.

unethical_ban

Spotify's (and the other huge streamers) main selling points are its catalogue, it's recommendations/auto playlists. Other features like steaming quality, UI, and network effects are also at play.

Even the metadata is a huge proprietary data dump. Not sure how you think apple, Google, Amazon or an upstart budget streaming service couldn't use this to better compete against Spotify.

Raed667

I'm hoping that this metadata leak can revive projects like https://everynoise.com

Spotify (and netflix etc..) have become very hostile to exposing their catalogue over API, so i'm glad they've gotten open sourced :)

udave

wasn't spotify started out as a collection of pirated songs? somethings go in full circle I guess.

glitcher

And also being the successor to Napster, the irony is thick with this quote:

"Since day one, we have stood with the artist community against piracy"

Funny thing, I've met a lot of independent artists who don't care about piracy one bit. I have a feeling it's the record labels and large corporations, not the artists, making the biggest fuss over piracy.

sosborn

For an independent artist, exposure matters more than album sales as it leads to ticket sales.

For large labels, exposure is a solved problem and album sales are all that matters.

They are all trying to maximize revenue, they just have different ways of going about it.

mystraline

Oooh, scary. "Investigations!"

This is a archivalist institution that actively ignores "copyright" to further the art and science of our shared media legacy.

And frankly, public libraries would absolutely be deemed illegal if they were made 10 years ago. (And it was only because rich people like Rockefeller wanted to wash their actual history with a social-happy persona.)