What the heck is going on at Apple?
71 comments
·December 7, 2025skeeter2020
an0malous
Yeah it seems pretty obvious that we’re in the mainframe era of transformer models and we’ll soon transition to the personal computer era where these all run on your device, which Apple stands to benefit from the most. Their FoundationModels are actually pretty good at certain tasks
827a
IMO: Cook is going to announce his retirement by the end of Q1, they've already selected a CEO (probably Ternus), the incoming CEO wants leadership change, and some of these departures are because its better that this purge happens before the CEO change than after. I think this explains Giannandrea, Williams, and Jackson.
Dye may have also been involved in that, given how unpopular he was internally at Apple. But more likely just personal / Meta offered him a billion dollars. Maestri leaving was also probably totally uninvolved.
Srouji is the weirdest case, and I'm hesitant to believe its even true just given its a rumor at this point. Its possible he was angry about being passed over for CEO, but realistically, it was always going to be Ternus, Williams, or Federighi. If Ternus is the next CEO, its likely we'll see Apple combine the Hardware Technologies and Hardware Engineering divisions, then have Srouji lead both of them. I really do not see him leaving the company.
The other less probable theory is that they actually picked Fadell, and this deeply pissed off many people in Apple's senior leadership. So, what we're seeing is more chaos than it first seems.
Generally, as long as Srouji doesn't leave, these changes feel positive for Apple, and especially if there's a CEO change in early 2026: This is what "the fifth generation of Apple Inc" looks like. I don't understand the mindset of people who complain about Apple's products and behavior over the past decade, then don't receive this news as directionally positive.
this_user
Cook is denying that he has any current plans to step down. There was also a Bloomberg article about this a couple of days ago.
What they point out is that a lot of Apple's senior leadership are of a similar age and are simply approaching retirement now. But they are also losing younger rising stars they desperately need to fill the ensuing void. At the moment, they are simply losing talent left and right, and that is unsustainable if they want to maintain their competitive edge and avoid completely turning into Microsoft.
The more likely explanation is that a certain amount of internal rot has set in. They haven't really launched a successful major new product category in years, and a lot of their initiatives have either stalled or failed. Something is clearly not right, and top tier talent doesn't will only tolerate that sort of thing for so long before moving on.
easton
> They haven't really launched a successful major new product category in years
I agree this is true, but Apple’s always done their best work when they’re the second mover. Smartphones, iPods, earbuds, good desktop PCs were all after they watched what was good and then made it better (if you like what they did, anyway).
The next hardware category is probably AR glasses if someone can make them good and cheap, nobody has so Apple won’t do anything but wait. I’m sure they have an optics lab working on something, but probably not full throttle (and the Vision Pro is an attempt to make the OS).
01100011
This seems true at many companies. While I'm not all that impressed by many current leaders, I'm sort of terrified of my generation (younger gen x) taking over because some of them seem to not be prepared or not have been prepared for the roles.
wilg
> Cook is denying that he has any current plans to step down. There was also a Bloomberg article about this a couple of days ago.
No he isn't and no there wasn't.
jader201
> I don't understand the mindset of people who complain about Apple's products and behavior over the past decade, then don't receive this news as directionally positive.
Short of Tim Cook being replaced, it just seems like disarray and things are falling apart at the seams, resulting in things only likely getting worse, not better.
If Tim Cook is indeed about to get replaced, then I think you might hear fewer complaints. But right now, the complaints are likely assuming a Tim Cook replacement isn’t part of the plan, or at the very least, not a guarantee.
If you’re wrong about a Tim Cook replacement, then I think the complaints may be justified.
kace91
My only worry regarding these moves (assuming Srouji doesn’t go) is that the software position is unchallenged.
I’m not sure about Federighi’s popularity inside, but it seems like Software is in need of changes as well.
apple4ever
Great points, this is indicative of something going on. And this point is especially spot on:
> I don't understand the mindset of people who complain about Apple's products and behavior over the past decade, then don't receive this news as directionally positive.
It's time for change. Maybe it won't get better, but I do hope it will.
wkat4242
True. Cook was a great money maker but he's so boring on the product side.
But they'll never get anyone even close to Jobs obviously. Just won't happen. Even if they find someone with the same attention to detail and "risk it all on a grand vision" mentality, he or she won't get the trust of the board who are generally risk-averse. The only reason Jobs got away with doing all that was that he was Mr. Apple. He was the company.
Hopefully they'll get someone closer to that but the magic will never come back IMO.
thadk
Could be Fadell, why else would Apple put Thread in phones? Maybe iTunes Store (via Fuse) and iPhone (via General Magic) weren't the only things Fadell had pitched Jobs on when the time was right.
jaredcwhite
Poor analysis. Apple is doing quite well as a Big Tech company that simply doesn't need to "pivot to AI" like everyone else. Their missteps in "Apple Intelligence" have in fact demonstrated that they don't actually need to have much of a "strategy" here at all. In fact, if they simply link out to other people's chatbots and make it totally opt-in, that would be ideal.
The much bigger problem is that they've lost the wow factor in their software design, and in some regards the hardware as well even though the internals and build quality has never been better. Apple needs a design shakeup far more than it needs anything to do with AI, a poison pill which will bring the entire industry down in 2026.
TheNewsIsHere
I have intentionally withheld updating my daily drivers to iOS 26 because of Liquid Glass. But if I had to pick between two evils - diminishing UX quality and shoving AI into every corner where no one asked for it - I’d still pick Liquid Glass.
jjice
The Apple Intelligence features are some of the more subtle ones overall compared to other companies like Google and Microsoft IMO
bigyabai
I've used macOS these days, give them a few years and they'll "catch up" I'm certain.
whyenot
26.2 is looking a lot less glassy. If you want to avoid the glass, I’d wait for its full release.
bitwize
Work is talking about upgrading our Macs to macOS 26. I'm holding off for now.
01100011
Apple not having an AI strategy doesn't matter until it suddenly does.
Whether that is in 2 years or ten is anyone's guess.
ramraj07
While we can agree that adding AI just to tick a box will win no awards, it will be a laughable proposition to suggest that Apple doesn't need to do anything on AI.
If anything its laughable and points to the unoriginality of product creators that we haven't fundamentally transformed how we interact with technology given how much AI offers as functionality. Anyone (I'll bet 20% on Ive) who figures this out will eat Apple's dinner.
skeeter2020
If you're giving 5:1 against Ive I'll take that in a heartbeat. He has zero historical record to show he can somehow capitalize on AI; even his design contributions are overall meh. Apple will have to do "something" but the beauty of mountains of cash and a business that doesn't need AI everywhere is that they can wait and see what something is, and then execute. They've actually been really good at figuring out implementation after the conceptual heavy lifting is done; it's deep in their DNA
smileson2
not that it matters much but I personally I lost all respect I had for Tim the sooner he and his clique are out of Apple the better it will be
jackvalentine
I don’t care that they’re behind on AI, I care that they’ve decided to throw UX out the window so all my devices are just a little bit worse to use than they were 12 months ago.
mostlysimilar
> Amar Subramanya, Microsoft’s corporate vice president of AI, will be Apple’s new vice president of AI.
That doesn't bode well. The last thing I want from macOS is Windows-like overbearing insistence on AI everything.
bombcar
He’s really a Google guy, spent about half a minute at Microsoft.
markus_zhang
> Alan Dye, vice president of human interface design, who is joining Meta as its chief design officer.
I wonder if he is responsible for all those niceties MacOS got for the last 10 or so years. Like the scroll bars in Serious Sam Mental difficulty, or the flat earth flavour icons, you know.
randycupertino
He created liquid glass, the much ballyhood but controversial new ios 26 update. Marketed like "magic" but mainly just visual updates that are buggy, drain battery and make things hard to read. Wonder if they'll keep supporting/pushing it.
nine_k
Feature request: a Dye Injector in the Control Panel that allows to add a tint to Liquid Glass, all the way to 100% opaque if desired.
(Unscientific fiction, I know.)
DonHopkins
They'll virtualize the ink jet printer ink model: Totally Transparent Liquid Glass UI is free, DRM'ed dye is an in-app purchase that fades over time, or subscription that you don't actually own.
User defined colors not possible, only expensive premium licensed Pantone, Disney Princess Pink, Barbie Pink, Tiffany Blue, Coca Cola Red, Cadbury Purple, UPS Brown, Target Red, Home Depot Orange, John Deere Green & Yellow, Vantablack, Stuart Semple Black 2.0, 3.0, etc.
beAbU
Ironically this was a feature in Windows 7.
sharts
It’s so weird that such a role could even have been allowed to be held by such a halfwit. How dies that even happen?
TheOtherHobbes
He arrived from the world of fashion with Watch, and somehow that gave him enough cachet at the top to entrench an extended nonsense career.
Looking forward to his tenure at Meta. With any luck he'll kill the company.
markus_zhang
Ah, another blessing I get to enjoy due to forced update policy from our IT department.
apple4ever
He absolutely was responsible for all the bad UI introduced over the last 10 years. Nobody said no to them.
npodbielski
> Like the scroll bars in Serious Sam Mental difficulty, or the flat earth flavour icons, you know.
You mean they invisible? Also I had fun playing mental. Finished FE on it ;)
markus_zhang
Damn I can’t even beat normal. I kept dying :/
Then I watched someone doing a long play on Serious and I think that’s a superman.
karmakaze
I don't know if it's only because he left, but there are stories about how bad he was in his position for such a long time. If that's true, Apple must be blamed for keeping him there--until he voluntarily left. WTF?
markus_zhang
TBH I don’t know much about the Mac eco except that I have been using a couple of MacBook Pro for work for the recent 5 years. My humble experience says hardware is easy but software is hard. Might be counterintuitive but that’s honestly what I felt.
TheNewsIsHere
With hardware there are only so many sanely quantifiable ways someone might use, abuse, or hack up your product. And you don’t have to care about some or all of them. Someone might desolder an Apple silicon chip successfully and do something neat with it, but they’re unlikely to use it to power an MRI machine.
But software - even inside the business that makes an application people will still find entirely surprising, realistically unpredictable ways to use it. Let alone the customers/users/tinkerers.
At a former place I worked we had one customer who was smart enough to be technically correct about how our software worked to use it in the most insane manner any of us had seen, and which no one had ever contemplated. Not even in a way that was sane to test manually or with automation. (I’m being a bit vague because it’d be very identifiable broadly and specifically.) Eventually we had to say “yes you can use it this way, but you’d end up paying far more than you should and the experience is going to be awful.” (Even sales agreed on the former!)
hilsdev
Anecdotal but I was talking to a recruiter about a role in Apple last week, and then was told they are doing a total hiring freeze until at least the new year.
There was also a bit of a shakeup in one of their teams for video content production a few months back which surprised me. Not anyone that would get a tech journal article written about them, but someone who was very experienced, knowledgeable, and loved his role.
Nothing newsworthy just sounds more rocky than usual for Apple
kace91
>as critics say Apple, once a tech leader, is behind in the next big wave: artificial intelligence.
Most critics I see deal with the fact that they’re fad chasing and delivering without their flagship polish (for both new products and updates). This narrative is likely to push apple deeper into the well if it becomes the mainstream spin.
phantasmish
As someone who has Apple-everything (just about) and has since 2013 or so, every time I see a headline about Apple being in serious trouble over their “AI failure” I can’t even understand what they’re talking about. Nothing I’ve seen yet is compelling enough I need it in my OS. People can reach Chatgpt on the iPhones just fine. Who cares? Who are these people like “idk might switch to Windows because of Apple’s failed AI strategy” making this an actual problem? I’ve never even understood what their supposed strategy was trying to do (at which it evidently failed? How did it fail? I also don’t follow that.)
gldrk
>Who are these people like “idk might switch to Windows because of Apple’s failed AI strategy” making this an actual problem?
It’s not about users but about investors who rely on the greater fool theory. If Apple is not adopting the current thing, people won’t FOMO in, so it’s better to buy other stock.
null
Barrin92
>Nothing I’ve seen yet is compelling enough I need it in my OS
I'd put it more strongly, as someone who hasn't bought an Apple device in over a decade, I have contemplated buying one now because it seems to be the only way to escape the enslopification. Them being behind on this crap is an active selling point for me
iqandjoke
Apple: (From Investors' twisted view) Not lagging behind, but prudently?? Spent less on AI which is wise
OpenAI: Code Red
lagniappe
A tweet I saw earlier:
Mark Gurman @markgurman
BREAKING: Apple’s chip chief Johny Srouji informed CEO Tim Cook he is seriously considering leaving the company and would likely continue his career elsewhere rather than retire. Apple is urgently pushing to keep him. He remains at least for now.
Article source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-06/apple-roc...
apple4ever
It's all crashing down around Cook. He could've chosen to actually be good to Apple customers. Instead, he milked them with ridiculous app store policies and terrible software. Yes the hardware was good, but those two things destroyed so much good will.
hn_throwaway_99
Insofar as this article is about the 4 execs leaving Apple, this is a total non-story and the "What the heck is going on at Apple" is just click bait:
- Lisa Jackson, Apple’s vice president of environment, policy and social initiatives, and general counsel Kate Adams, are set to retire. While these may be high level execs, they don't really have much to do with the overall direction and success of the company. And given the change in the political environment you've seen tons of changes in roles like these at many companies in the past 11 months.
- Alan Dye, vice president of human interface design, is leaving to join Meta as its chief design officer. Sounds like he won't really be missed: https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/04/gruber-apple-employees-giddy-.... Assuming he was responsible for Liquid Glass, I say good riddance.
- John Giannandrea, senior vice president of machine learning and AI strategy, is also retiring. He had basically already been demoted, taken off leading Siri due to Siri's competitive failures.
So yeah, it's pretty obvious that Apple is behind the AI wave, but honestly, they may end up having the last laugh given how much backlash there is from consumers about trying to shoehorn AI into all these places where it's just an annoyance.
randycupertino
There's more than just 4 execs and imo an unprecedented level of turnover for a historically very stable company. It’s multiple senior leaders across legal, policy, AI, design, hardware, and operations leaving within a short period, making it one of Apple’s most significant leadership shakeups in years, which is why several outlets are finding it newsworthy.
1) John Giannandrea, Senior VP of Machine Learning & AI Strategy, Apple’s AI chief is leaving in 2026 after setbacks with Siri, his entire team is being reorganized and cut.
2) Alan Dye, VP of Design and responsible for liquid glass left for Meta Bloomberg
3) Kate Adams, the top lawyer and general counsel is leaving
4) Lisa Jackson, VP of Policy & Social Initiatives also leaving
5) Johny Srouji, hardware/chip head, said he is "seriously considering leaving" which is really interesting seeing as he actually said that out loud for press to report on.
6) Jeff Williams, COO retired
7) Luca Maestri the CFO left ealier this year
8) Ruoming Pang the AI foundation leader left for Meta
9) Ke Yang, head of Siri search also left for Meta.
A lot of other AI engineers have also left.
jjtheblunt
Apple is (for a very long time) essentially a hardware company so all the contrived drama about not embracing AI is perhaps Apple style accumulation of data as it refines the sequence of "neural cores" to efficiently serve wherever the industry is careening.
While Apple wants its hardware to best run popular apps (AI included), it's premature to presume these people leaving for Meta (Dye in particular) have any impact other than tribal knowledge in their departures.
(disclaimer: was an engineer in an inner sanctum of apple for several years)
internet2000
1, 8 and 9 leaving is expected. They failed at their jobs.
3 and 4 literally don't matter.
5, 6 and 7 probably left / are going to leave because they got news they wouldn't get the CEO role once Cook retires.
2 is the big surprise that raises the most eyebrows.
Seems it's mostly succession drama with a side of failure @ AI.
kshacker
I was reading and 2 (Srouji) is 61 years old. While that is not too old, but that does explain why he may not be choice for next CEO (besides any other things). You want someone to helm the ship for a decade.
jakeydus
Also the rumor I heard from a friend at Apple (hearsay, obviously, and an anecdote to boot) was that Alan Dye was pretty unpopular among designers.
isleyaardvark
And 7 left January 1st, so I don’t know if I would include them in talks of an exodus.
mjmsmith
> And given the change in the political environment you've seen tons of > changes in roles like these at many companies in the past 11 months.
Foolishly, some of us still hoped Apple was better than that. And definitely better than this:
"Apple is bringing in Meta chief legal officer Jennifer Newstead to lead government affairs after Adams retires and serve as its new general counsel."
3 retirements and a VP taking an obvious promotion at Meta: not really the "sky is falling" event they try to paint. Tim Cook stepping down would (if it even happens) be a big deal, but he's not the heart of the company. He's been an extremely compentent accountant; enjoy your retirement party and gold watch. And to suggest they are falling behind because they're not investing hundreds of billions in an AI "strategy" that shows no pay-off - while the other tech companies start to scale back their capital investments? I've never been a huge Apple fan as a company but their current situation makes me more bullish than ever.