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Dilution vs. Risk taking: Capital gains taxes and entrepreneurs

dshuang

Doesn't seem fair to tax someone on appreciated stock if they haven't sold and haven't taken any loans against it.

NewJazz

Yeah I'm in favor of leverage == taxable event. I think the meaningful difference between leveraged and unleveraged capital gains is that when you take a loan, you access liquidity via your ownership in the asset. If you had gotten a dividend, that would have been taxable. A loan with a stock backing it isn't the same thing, but it does have a somewhat similar effect.

odie5533

The taxes would be refundable.

anonymousiam

Would they pay interest?

aaronblohowiak

Especially if it is illiquid

only-one1701

Waiting for the comments to roll in so I can see if most hackernews commenters view themselves on team Exception or team Rule.

Nevermark

I have worked about half time over three decades on a problem which I recently solved and am developing for a new venture. "Simple" conceptual solution - which took a long trail of reframing to get to. The complete solution is a layered series (actually a cycle) of partial solutions. Each partial solution but one from fields I never expected to be involved. Still taking a lot of work to implement well, but this is the "easy" part.

Getting taxed on any increases in value early would feel very unfair. I have already put in so much value, for nothing in liquid valuation so far, that things would have to go pretty well to compare equitably with what could have been expected if I had accrued half-time earnings, continuously saved and invested in entirety for three decades.

Further worries: If I don't want to accept any venture capital, and at least for the foreseeable future bootstrap, would I somehow be forced into needing to liquidate ownership based on some accrued wealth rule anyway?

Hopefully not.

But if capital raises are the trigger for accrued wealth taxes, even a small raise after bootstrapped success, gets ugly too. Imagine raising capital after achieving bootstrapped success, by selling 1%, only to have to pay taxes on 99% of the company's new valuation! That would create a severe disincentive to take any capital ever, after bootstrapped success.

Some kind of hybrid approach might work. Where the only triggers of taxes involved were actual capital sales, with the taxation amount proportional both to the new valuation, and the percentage of total valuation sold. I.e. On first capital raise, for 1% of the companies ownership, the zero-to-new valuation V would be taxed at a maximum of 1% of V. So 2% would need to be sold. (1% from the company for its coffers, 1% from owner for taxes.)

That would be doubling a raise to pay taxes, but far better than a multiplier of 26 times the desired raise. (Where 1% is raised for the company, matched by an additional sale of (for instance) 25% of owners shares, to pay the owners taxes on the suddenly valuable 99%).

Small sales shouldn't incur massive consequences.

ares623

It’s a useful lagging indicator. Most here still think they have a shot at being the next unicorn like in the ZIRP era.

ur-whale

Quite funny that half of the team who wrote this hail from Switzerland, a country where there are no taxes on realized capital gains, much less unrealized ones.

jjmarr

The paper spots that this pseudo-wealth tax would be better for more founders.

> Moving from current realization-based to accrual-based taxation would reduce founder ownership at exit by 25% on average but would also increase the fraction receiving positive payoffs from 16% to 47% when tax credits are refunded.

Founders would use VC money to pay the tax and get a refund if the startup fails, since the capital gains were never realized. Therefore "pre-paying" capital gains would be a good thing for most founders since otherwise a liquidity event wouldn't happen for 84% of them.

This only happens with a tax on unrealized capital gains, though, not a normal wealth tax.

Another corollary is that "zombie startups" would be heavily discouraged, since "failing fast" could result in a payout.