Keep Android Open
75 comments
·October 29, 2025jeena
jb1991
I don’t know what it was like back then but in today’s world you do not need to pay Apple any fees if all you’re doing is writing software in Xcode and deploy it to your own device. You do need a developer account, the free version of one, but you only need to pay the fee if you’re going to publish on the App Store.
rezonant
Free provisioning: If you do not pay the developer fee an app installed via Xcode will work for 7 days. Afterwards you must open Xcode on your Mac again, and push a new build to your phone.
Paid provisioning: If you have paid the developer fee, a build will expire based on the amount of time left before that payment renews, so if you build and install an app a month before your developer fee renews, that build of the app (that you installed via Xcode) will stop working in 1 month.
sebtron
Don't you also need to buy a Macbook? That is quite expensive. I guess in Apple's view also developping on a non-Apple device is a security risk.
jb1991
I’ve never considered or tried anything other than using a Mac, so I don’t know. But I was responding to a comment about a different matter, the fees for a developer account.
codedokode
Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models.
The solution, I think, would be a regulation that forbids manufacturers of any chip or device CPU from making obstacles to reprogramming the device (using fuses, digital signatures, encryption etc). So if you buy a device with CPU and writable memory, you should be able to load your own program and manufacturer may not use technical measures to stop you. The goal of regulation would be preventing of creating digital waste, vendor locks and allow reusing the hardware.
Of course, features like theft prevention won't work, so the user should be able to waive this right.
willtemperley
Looks like GrapheneOS will be available on another "major Android OEM” soon [1].
Regulation should prevent Google from subsidising manufacturers to use Android. Arguably the recent antitrust legislation [2] applies in this case because they're effectively paying manufacturers to place that horrendous and impossible to remove search bar on the home screen.
[1] https://www.androidauthority.com/graphene-os-major-android-o... [2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-wins-signi...
maxloh
Most vendors (at some level) allow flashing custom distributions, as long as you didn't buy that device from carrier: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame...
You will lose DRM-based apps (e.g. Netflix), Payment apps, and bank apps though.
Xelbair
That small little caveat already makes it a non-option
xyzal
Not in markets without significant Huawei and Xiaomi presence. Local banks (Czech Republic) are not using integrity APIs to keep being usable for most clients.
theK
Did you check the stuff murena has on offer? Most if not all of their phones come with an unlockable bootloader and the OS they come with isn't that bad to start with either.
microtonal
They are pretty bad when it comes to security:
kragen
We just had a thread about this on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45740383.
neilv
No matter how this turns out, I'm sure GrapheneOS will make a smart effort. https://grapheneos.org/
But long-term, Android is such a massive code base, and was designed more for surveillance and consumption, than for privacy&security and the user's interests.
I think getting mainline Linux on viable and sustainable on multiple hardware devices is warmer, fuzzier foundation. (Sort of a cross between Purism's work on the Librem 5, and PostmarketOS's work on trying to get mainline Linux viable on something else.)
anonymous908213
The problem is for developers. Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat. Sure, we can use Linux smartphones ourselves, but if the software we make has a grand total of three people who ever lay eyes on it, that's less than ideal. And given how The Year of the Linux Desktop has gone, I think it'd be strongly preferable if we managed to stave off the tightening of control over Android rather than placing bets on the future Year of the Linux Smartphone.
broodbucket
The Year of the Linux Desktop is kind of happening. Not at the scale that the meme implies, but I've never seen anywhere near as much adoption of the Linux desktop as this year. The combination of Valve's efforts, more usage of Linux gaming handhelds, distributions like Bazzite that have strong selling points for Windows gamers, and Microsoft pissing everyone off with everything that is Windows 11, the Linux desktop has some legitimate momentum for once
pimeys
And I can just take about any Linux distro, install it to about any computer and have an extremely nice device to work, play games, and handle almost any daily task with. I call that a huge success.
vitorgrs
Especially considering how much software these days on Windows are all Electron/Web. So is not a hard switch as it once was.
I switched from Windows to Linux it's been 2 years. One of the few things I missed on Windows, was the native WhatsApp app, as the Web WhatsApp it's horrible. Then a few months Meta killed the native app and made into a webview-app :)
colordrops
Some people don't care and build on top of Linux anyway. This lockdown will accelerate this. At some point a critical mass will eventually be reached, perhaps with the assistance of some corporate entity or organization of some sort that pushes it over the edge. Then there will be a real open competitor. Will take some time though.
jauntywundrkind
Waydroid does surprisingly well at running Android apps on Linux.
Sure some apps won't work for whatever reason & HN commenters will have incredibly scathing things to say about that, but I bet there's a lot of folks who'd be cool with missing an app here or there.
It sucks to be losing Android, but IMO it's an ecosystem in free-fall. Bootloaders are locked more and more, there's literally zero AOSP hardware buyable now, and the roms scene has diminished not grown over time.
I totally think theres a Steam Deck moment waiting around a corner, where what seemed impossible a year ago shows up and is dead obvious & direct, and we all wonder why there were so many doubts before.
otabdeveloper4
> Abandoning Android for Linux is not viable for software developers who need to eat.
We'll finally get our ecosystem diversity back when the next geopolitical happening happens and Google bans Chinese android apps on bullshit pretexts.
Wait a few years more.
khimaros
buy a used OnePlus 6 and load Mobian on it. quite functional these days running a mainline kernel.
jauntywundrkind
(2018) makes me more than a bit sad. I have a OnePlus 6, and it was ok with the software I tried out ~3 years ago, and basically fast enough. But it's soul crushing how running mainline Linux is just so impossible for consumer mobile chips.
It felt at the time like there was positive progress, more bits getting mainlined at a trickle but at least steady trickle rate. But it feels dark now. At least the GPU drivers everywhere have been getting much better, but I get the impression Qualcomm couldn't even ship a desktop/laptop after years of delay, is barely getting that in order now. It feels impossible to hope for the mobile chips anywhere to find religion & get even basic drivers mainlined.
charcircuit
>than for privacy&security and the user's interests.
Even if that was true, AOSP is better for privacy and security than any other Linux distro.
endgame
As I said in the other thread:
Australian users of alternative app stores should make a complaint to the ACCC: https://www.accc.gov.au/about-us/contact-us-or-report-an-iss...
In the past, they forced Steam to implement proper refund policies, and they are currently suing Microsoft about the way subscribers were duped into paying more for "AI features" they didn't want.
shakna
Unfortunately, I think attestation is being pushed by other parts of the Australian government. Particularly ACSC.
hekkle
[dead]
layfellow
This is doubleplusungood. The war on General Purpose Computing is the death of innovation and a direct attack on digital freedom.
If you're in the US, UK or EU, please contact your government.
bfkwlfkjf
Stallman was right.
ghm2180
Given the apple v epic ruling about in payment commision outside the app store, I don't understand this. I assume Google would get the same ruling if they tried what apple did, so why bother with walling off if you can't get paid?
At least with 3p app stores they could have Gpay if the app developer wanted to, but now they will be pissed and can't build a 3p app anyway since users can't install it via 3p app stores.
xigoi
> why bother with walling off if you can't get paid?
To destroy competitors of Google apps such as Aurora Store or NewPipe.
celsoazevedo
A direct link to the UK's Competition and Markets Authority, in case you don't want to go via a blog post:
https://contact-the-cma.service.gov.uk/wizard/classify
It's very simple to submit a complaint.
wasabinator
Between this and a growing number of oems not permitting bootloader unlocking (latest being Samsung with OneUI 8) Android's "open" future is pretty bleak.
deanc
I don't want this. The App Store on iOS has its flaws, but it's a curated system that has a lot of checks in place to prevent malware. I have never felt unsafe on iOS and it's the primary reason I've not joined Android and the Play Store's wild west.
adithyassekhar
I can't emphasize this enough, your comment is 100% wrong.
This is about only allowing play verified apps. Play store will remain whatever you think of it regardless of this move.
franczesko
What this has to do with the topic, if you're on iOS?
deanc
Because I'd actually be interested in an Android phone if Google locks down the play store to legitimate actors, increases the barrier for entry and improves the quality and safety of submissions. Which this looks to be doing?
morshu9001
You can't even develop without the paid dev account? I thought it'd just be for distribution. Like, you can build and run whatever you want on an iPhone without a paid account.
lern_too_spel
You can develop and install via adb, but you can't just tell the package manager to install an APK you downloaded on your phone. Maybe attestation makes sense to allow Amazon App Store or Epic Games Store to be installed without a warning and to allow companies like Spotify to distribute their apps themselves from their websites without using Google Play Store and without a warning. What's wrong is preventing people from installing apps that haven't been attested by Google straight from their phone, even with a warning.
morshu9001
I get that requiring attestation for downloaded apps is wrong too, it's just this website says "it will no longer be possible to develop apps for the Android platform without first registering centrally with Google" which seems incorrect from what you're saying.
Edit: Oh I get it, "develop for the platform" means develop and distribute. Maybe it's just me, but seems like an important difference.
_carbyau_
This feels similar to Sony and their OtherOS feature.[0]
Many people bought Android phones because of the open capability. Even if you don't use it, just knowing you have an out is important.
And now Google is "altering the terms".
Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ...
This is why I switched to Android, just for Google now to pull the rug from under my feet again ...