Sodium-ion batteries have started to appear in cars and home storage
37 comments
·October 23, 2025president_zippy
Are there any better sources we should read for how and why sodium-ion batteries are better than lithium-ion batteries?
All I know is that the charge to mass ratio of an Na+ ion is less than that of an Li+ ion, and that elemental Na and Li are both highly-reactive with violent exothermic reactions when exposed to water. I need someone with chemistry or materials science experience to help me explain what the advantages are and how those advantages exist.
hoistbypetard
I hope it's on the way, but I don't think the Pioneer Na is yet a sign of this revolution. This detailed review didn't leave me in a hurry to go get one, anyway:
jxf
The idea with really cheap batteries is that they don't need good energy density. You just swap them every so often and put the one you aren't using in the charging rack. You could even carry your own reserve energy with you!
cyberax
The idea is not that Na-Ion batteries are better than LFPs, they are not. The main goal is to make them dirt cheap.
It seems that $15 per kWh of storage should be achievable with them. At this price, it's trivial to install enough grid-scale storage to completely move off fossil fuels in more southern areas.
labrador
It seems clear that na-ion batteries will replace large scale grid storage especially in cold climates. This isn't another hyped up battery.
adgjlsfhk1
I don't think cold climates will be that different here. grid scale storage doesn't care about outside temp because heating/cooling a warehouse is pretty cheap
hyperadvanced
A lot of BESS enclosures (sub grid scale, and grid scale) are much more primitive than a warehouse. If you don’t need to pay for HVAC, it’s free money for the operator.
sschueller
IMO, for large scale, nothing beats pumped water storage if you have the right conditions for the required lake. No risk of a bad cell causing a fire, no chemical degradation, no cooling or heating required and zero to full power within seconds just like a battery.
LikeBeans
For my EV, which I charge about once a week on average, with 4,000 cycles that means about 77 years!! That's a huge deal. CATL quoted 10k cycle battery too. Wow. Very cool. Yeah energy density and operating profile and all that. But color me impressed.
tedk-42
Where are all the commenters about how China can't innovate and they can only steal technology now...
Reverse that, why don't other countries / companies try and steal their talent and IP? Is everyone resigned to think that China are undefeatable on the technology/manufacturing of these batteries?
shard972
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AnonC
I skimmed through the article. It talks a lot about sodium ion batteries and how major vehicle and transportation companies are getting into making and using these batteries. It also talks about the cost aspect, with sodium ion being cheaper than lithium iron phosphate (LFP) batteries.
However, there is no mention of this technology in consumer devices and gadgets like laptops, smartphones and tablets. I get that the site is about clean technology as a replacement for the currently more polluting technology. But I’m interested to see when these sodium ion batteries will appear in phones and laptops and what difference they may make to the cost, price, weight, performance, safety, longevity, etc.
jostmey
Phone and laptop batteries probably make up a tiny fraction of the battery market. My EV battery is almost 5000 times the size of my iphone.
Sodium batteries, if the technology works, would replace EV batteries and provide support to the electrical grid, and would be purchased at thousands of times the volume of iphone ad laptop batteries
grumbelbart2
Since their energy density is still lower, it will probably take a while for them to be adapted in EVs.
But their impact on energy storage to stabilize the grid, both technically and in terms of prices, can not be overstated. Cheap, safe storage is the key component missing in Europe for using more renewables. Without that you need to keep gas plants in reserve, should there be a few days without sun and wind.
There were a few such days in December 2024, and their impact onto energy prices is difficult for energy-intense industries. https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_average/chart.htm?l=...
chris_va
Well, because they probably never will.
Phones and laptops are weight/volume sensitive, and sodium ions are a lot larger than lithium ions, thus the battery energy density is lower.
someonenice
Increased usage of Sodium batteries for static applications (home storage) could reduce demand for Li based batteries. This could reduce the cost of Laptop batteries.
adgjlsfhk1
the point of sodium batteries is that for stationary applications (e.g. ups/house backup), we've been using scaled up cell phone batteries for the last decade because the tech space was doing all the r&d. now that we know how good batteries can be, every important niche is getting it's own billions of dollars spent to find the perfect battery for that application
hn_throwaway_99
As another comment mentioned, sodium ion batteries compete very poorly against lithium when portability is paramount.
But more on that point, it always struck me as bizarre that lithium was dominant in so many areas despite vastly different requirements. For home and grid storage, battery weight is almost immaterial, while it's a paramount concern in portable devices. I think it would be very surprising indeed if one chemistry performed best in all scenarios. Lithium became dominant primarily because it had so much research and supply chain maturity behind it, even if it was suboptimal for areas like grid storage. Glad to see other battery chemistries are getting more investment.
fulafel
Lots of laptops and tablet models could spare more volume and weight for batteries if there was a big cost advantage.
Dylan16807
I doubt that could happen. The price is so low that it doesn't make a difference unless your sodium costs negative dollars.
I would say the bulk price of lithium ion batteries is the most you could possibly remove via materials changes. When smaller batteries are more expensive, that's based on factors that would also affect other chemistries. And the bulk price for laptop capacity, 50-99 watt hours, is $5-10 and dropping.
tonyhart7
Hope the economic of scale picked up and we would get 10% price of vehicle as battery cost
brybell
Very interesting. I've been thinking for the past few years that new battery technology is really what will be the catalyst for the next generation of technology across all industries. I'm curious about their use in smaller consumer electronics, or if lithium will still be the standard for many more years to come.
dwd
Ideally they will be used in personal electronics as sodium chloride solid state (SCSS) batteries are far safer and not going to explode or cause a run-away fire.
They also don't need some "critical" minerals such as graphite, cobalt and nickel.
fart-fart-FART
graphite is rather abundant and easily synthesized, is it not?
stephenitis
He must mean lithium?
Hobadee
I'm sure we won't have any problems at all with these. Lithium is a perfectly safe substance, and Sodium is higher up on the periodic table, so it's even more safererest! /s
Look, I'm all for better battery technology, but we are also building a ton of mini bombs that we all hold in our pockets. We need to be realistic about the practical applications of this. Do you really want to be on a flight where a Sodium laptop battery decides to go on a runaway reaction? Lithium reactions are hard enough to contain as it is. We need to start building the policies and defenses before this becomes mainstream.
slackerIII
Just curious, what's your background in batteries? From my understanding, sodium based batteries are safer than lithium, but I would defer to anyone with real expertise in the subject.
braggerxyz
Na is the safest Alkali, they get increasingly bad as you go DOWN (not up) the perodic table. Learn basic facts before you spit BS
cyberax
Na is the _next_ safest alkali metal after lithium :)
jopsen
There are plenty of laptops and phones in airplanes today.
What makes you think the risk will increase in the future?
amluto
As you go down the table, the alkali metals (in metallic form) get far nastier.
terminalshort
Wait till you find out what internal combustion engines run on...
themafia
Vapor. Which is convenient for fire fighting in all sorts of ways. Just because you put the fire out does not mean you've discharged all the stored energy and re-ignitions are a serious concern in lithium battery systems, whereas with fuel, you actually can make the fuel inert and then you can remove it, separately from the vehicle.
gitaarik
Are sodium batteries more dangerous?
boxed
> Look, I'm all for better battery technology
Go on.
> but we are also building a ton of mini bombs that we all hold in our pockets
Yea. That's the definition of "battery".
Clearly you are against batteries.
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