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When a stadium adds AI to everything, it's worse experience for everyone

Someone1234

I was recently at an events center, that has replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product. Literally, didn't take cash or credit - just via app.

Per the marketing on the side, this is meant to be for my benefit in order to earn "points" and get offered "deals." I don't think I have to tell you that I did NOT install the app, and just walked further to buy one from a vendor.

There is a massive arrogance problem within tech. Everyone thinks their product should be the center of everyone else's universe. The best products are invisible/get out of the way.

m463

I think of a friend who worked at a bank, and a colleage decided to show him "how the world really worked"

He got out a big printout and started showing the different demographics and their habits.

"<ethnic> woman, with a little bit of college" - she will get a credit card, charge it up to the limit, then make the minimum payment... forever.

"<ethnic> man, no college" - he will get a credit card, charge it up to the limit, might make one payment, never make another payment ever.

Then he went on to say, corporations will slant their advertising to target demographic #1 with credit card advertisements. They will make their advertisements disappear from view from demographic #2.

I kind of wonder if the whole vending system is slanted around these kinds of things. Sports fan, uses phone indiscriminately for everything, sell him an impulse snickers bar with an app, then load him down with ads for payday loans.

mattgreenrocks

Nothing against sports fans, but your comment made me wonder if all the grocery stores hopping on the “game day” wave for advertising campaigns are doing so bc their data shows that sports fans are easier to sell to.

clan

The arrogance is not that they think they're the center of the universe. It is much worse.

I hear a lot of talk about how much pain you can inflict on people and how to extract the most value from that. Last I heard it was from a couple of media types discussing radio commercials. No care for their actual product for the end user - but an evaluation of how much people would suffer before tuning away.

Actual professional pride and care is sooo last century.

goda90

>a couple of media types discussing radio commercials

Relevant Simpsons clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdMjqcjMVTc

throwaway48476

I call it the 3M strategy. Misery Makes Money

svachalek

Sadly. It's like how modern bridges can be built with less materials than old ones, now that we can calculate precisely the minimum we use pretty much exactly that. Things have gone exactly the same way with consumers over the past 30 years, businesses have learned exactly how badly they can treat you and step up to that line at every opportunity.

throwaway48476

Bridges are public goods. If the public spends less on material they can afford to build additional bridges and create value for more people.

m463

it's like bridge constructor, real life entertainment...

https://www.gog.com/en/game/bridge_constructor

influx

Lumen Field in Seattle just installed some Amazon Just Walk Out vendors this year. I'm happy to report you don't need to be logged into Amazon or have an app. I double clicked my phone to swipe my Apple Pay before I walked in, grabbed a beer and walked out.

It was fantastic.

sleazebreeze

Aren't all these transactions checked by a human after the fact? IIRC I interviewed someone who worked on this and thats what they said.

bgirard

The big issue I have with this experience is that you don't get a clear charge price before you leave. So you have to check a page either some minutes or hours later and hope that the total is correct. Like the article said, I don't love the idea of being charged for 3 overpriced bottles of water when I only took two. I'd rather just settle my transactions in the moment than try to remember what my total was and dispute things later from memory on the occasional times it's wrong.

robotnikman

At the very least the is how it should be done. Having to download and install an app, then login, then connect payment info, etc... Sounds like such a pain I wouldn't even bother.

OptionOfT

It's all about the pop-ups & tracking. The same reason that McDonald's wants you to install their app.

reaperducer

replaced all of their vending machines with machines that require me to install an app(!) to purchase a product

I saw this at a Simon mall recently.

I took a picture of the machine. Across the front of the door is a banner which reads:

  1. Scan the QR code
  2. Create profile
  3. Scan again to unlock door
  4. Close the door
  5. You're one drink closer to a free drink!
I'm not going to jump through hoops like a circus animal for a Mr. Pibb. I used the water fountain instead.

frogperson

I agree with the arrogance. I am just so tired of poor software consuming hours to troubleshoot. technology was supposed to makes things easier, not turn every interaction into a chore or a debug session.

ryandrake

> You place all your items on the white shelf with some space between them. Although they were clearly designed to be a self-checkout experience, the stadium had a staff member rearrange your items, then for about 30 seconds the kiosk would be thinking. After, it would pop up all items on the menu, and the staff member would have to tap to confirm what each item was.

Maybe we're just calling all forms of automation and computer vision "AI" these days because it's sexy. Anyway: any automation that requires a human staff member to intervene to complete every run is not automation: It's just adding unnecessary technology and making the process worse. Imagine if each grocery store self-checkout required a human staff member to scan items, re-arrange things, and confirm checkout.

TSUTiger

They do that at Circle K[0] today using the same tech from Mashgin. It's meant to be a self-checkout, but you literally have one employee standing and watching this one checkout (sometimes 2-3, but usually 1-2). It's not always accurate, requires some hand-holding at times, and slows down the already slow lines at Circle K. It's a bit faster than the article implies and does not require a staff member, but still slower than a human would be.

Meanwhile over at QuikTrip, there's one person checking out two people at a time. Suffice to say, if both stores are available, I will always choose the QT.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c1kbWAttus

mablopoule

> Maybe we're just calling all forms of automation and computer vision "AI" these days because it's sexy.

Funny thing is, at first it was the other way around! 'Computer Vision' has always been a sub-field of AI, but the term was more widely used by academics during a previous AI winter as a way to avoid the tainted 'AI' label.

neilv

I came here to paste that quote. It sounds like a disaster of poor HCI around not-ready-for-prime-time tech implementation. That's not even a great PoC demo to get funding, much less deploy into production.

Maybe they were emboldened because many companies still can't even do decades-old UPC barcode scanner self-checkouts well?

The closest self-checkout to working reasonably well I see regularly would be at Whole Foods Market, at least just using the low-tech UPC and scale. I only have a few nits about it.

(Though, within the last week, the usual duct-taped-on off-the-shelf hand scanner apparently saw the wrong barcode on the front of the product label (yes, some brand did that), which wedged the station, and the employee who came over seemed like they might think I was trying to defraud the store. I've coded for a few of those scanners before, and they provide a mix of automagical easy high-value behavior and major pitfalls. There are a few kinds of interfaces, and a large fleet of settings, and you really have to wrestle the device to the ground, to make every scenario bulletproof. If the integrator wasn't careful, for some of them, you can even reprogram or brick them with an in-band barcode, and disabling this feature is buried among the numerous settings.)

The worst self-checkout I'm currently exposed to is the dumpster-fire of a major chain, which goes out of its way to fill the UI with garbage, and then doesn't do even basic sensing and state flow right. They really need to look at WFM design, and then go even further in that direction, and get the state model right. While making sure that no one's bonus is tied to garbage and dark patterns on the screen.

(Also, for return customers who nope right out of the self-checkout headache, and go to the human checkout, or get directed to it by the attendant who's glaring at all the self-checkouts, they need clean their CC terminal keypad that's visibly caked with crud, like maybe it hasn't been disinfected in a year. Especially since they mandate repeated use of it when it should default to working with just a card tap/swipe, for a high-traffic location for many sick people.)

russdill

I've used one of these at Lihue airport. It was slightly finicky, but fine and required no staff member assistance.

baggachipz

> Imagine if each grocery store self-checkout required a human staff member to scan items, re-arrange things, and confirm checkout.

They always have at least one person going between each self-checkout kiosk helping confused and upset customers. Meanwhile, 1 traditional checkout lane is open with a long line. Self checkout is great to use if you know how and have a handful of items, but it sucks with a full cart due to space constraints and the bag scales being finicky.

ToucanLoucan

> It's just adding unnecessary technology and making the process worse.

Oh it's not JUST that, I'm sure it's also a data-harvesting scheme, because what isn't these days?

bgirard

> The person in front of me bought two items and saw she got charged for three. Since there were no paper receipts, she took a photo of the machine before going to the guest services to complain. I missed ten minutes of the game getting water.

I wish payment processors / consumer protection would have a significant penalty for sloppy overcharges. I've had to deal with sloppy overcharges like this (one for over $1,000) and you lose a lot of time and the outcome is just 'oppsies, my bad'. There's very little repercussion for sloppy overcharges so it's easy for them to perpetuate.

lykahb

Once you enter the stadium or a concert, you become a part of the captive market. There exists an incentive to limit your choices and extract as much value out of you as possible. The limit to that is mostly defined by the organizer decency and the amount of pushback.

The experience is usually better at the smaller venues that aren't a part of strong fandom and more sensitive to the customer sentiment: indie cinemas, comedy clubs, etc.

CGMthrowaway

By "Everything" I guess the author means "Concessions checkout"? I was looking for another example and never got one.

AlexandrB

Isn't this the purpose of a lot of AI? To provide "good enough" alternatives to human labor. Why would anyone expect AI to make things better rather than cheaper or more profitable?

ThrowawayTestr

Except there's still a human that has to confirm everything the computer did

s17n

The article starts by blaming AI for the reduced food menu, a speculative claim which the author made no attempt to validate and which is almost certainly incorrect. I stopped reading right there.

TSUTiger

You should've read further.

In reality, when getting out first to market, it might be difficult for "AI" to decipher if a user added 1 of 5 available sauces to their chicken wings, so to reduce the likelihood of this error, you remove it until the technology is more mature. Speculative sure, but a strong assumption, and I doubt Mashgin would confirm this.

s17n

Its definitely wrong - I've used these exact checkout systems at places with way longer menus than any stadium has ever or will ever have. Even if that wasn't the case, it would still be way too speculative of premise to be worth seriously discussing, especially when the Occam's Razor "they reduced the menu size because its easier, they have a captive market, and why try to make good food when you can just charge $20 for a beer" explanation is right there in front of you.