GrapheneOS is ready to break free from Pixels
88 comments
·October 14, 2025idle_zealot
jojobas
While this is awesome, I'm kinda skeptical on the premise on two points.
Almost nobody cares about privacy, and this is going to be super expensive. I might be fine with paying extra, but the economy might not work out, like it didn't for Blackphone. Fairphone is barely alive as well. Seeing as phones are just source of ad money Google can drop the prices on their phones as well.
Some European countries and banks already require crap like Play Integrity for essential apps. So far it's possible to hold out, but for how much longer?
ForHackernews
You might like /e/OS. It's less secure/hardened than Graphene, but offers a de-Googled Android with a focus on privacy and usability.
user2722
It uses microG which has its own set of issues, though.
SchwKatze
They made this "announcement" around 80 days ago here on HN :) [1]
fwipsy
The tone of this announcement seems a lot more certain than the previous one, at least.
tiagod
I remember reading that comment. Disappointing article, but good to know it's still in progress.
d3Xt3r
This is excellent news. I've always wanted to try GrapheneOS, but I dislike Google and dislike Pixels even more (Tensor sucks + there's the whole VoLTE/5G issue), so I never got a chance to try it out.
Hopefully they select an OEM which supports pKVM - that's the one Pixel feature I'd really like to see being implemented on other Android devices.
Nashooo
Curious, what phone would you recommend/do you use?
d3Xt3r
I use a Samsung Fold because I read a lot of books/manga, and I also love its multitasking features over stock Android/Pixel. Finally I also prefer it's form-factor (roughly 3:4 unfolded screen, and a narrow front screen) over other similar devices.
But it's obviously not for everyone so I can't really recommend it to everyone. And to be honest I can't in good faith recommend any Android phone these days, I hate what Google and other OEMs have done to the ecosystem.
I'm quite bullish on Linux phones though, like the FuriPhone FLX1, the Volla Phone Quintus, and the Jolla C2 - obviously again they're not for everyone, so for normies I would recommend an iPhone, and for techies I'd suggest giving the Linux phones a try (or maybe get a OnePlus/Nothing phone and load LineageOS+Magisk if you don't mind playing the cat-and-mouse game with Play Integrity).
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esseph
What is the VoLTE/5G issue? On T-Mobile, haven't had any issues with it living in a pretty rural spot. Isn't that like a Verizon problem?
d3Xt3r
It's more of an issue for carriers who don't sell Pixel devices, particularly in countries where the Pixel isn't sold officially (eg: New Zealand). So generally VoLTE, VoWiFi and sometimes even 5G too might not work. You can use a hack to get around that, but now Google has blocked that hack: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45553764
Edit: Looks like there's an updated workaround now, but this is what I mean - it's really unacceptable that an essential feature like VoLTE - which is required to make phone calls - may not work depending on your carrier/region.
giantg2
I wonder what percentage of Pixel sales ended up running Graphene. It feels like running Graphene is the only real benefit to a Pixel. I wonder if Google is getting out of phones after Pixel 10 or 11.
sndean
Could estimate ~1% (+/- 1%) given the Graphene user estimates [1] and the tens of millions of Pixels sold at this point.
[1] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/21946-grapheneos-popularity...
giantg2
Interesting, I wouldn't have guessed they had tens of millions active.
warkdarrior
1% of "tens of millions" is hundreds of thousands.
esseph
> only real benefit to running a pixel
Not a phrase I expected to read, whew. Tough customers.
I've been very happy with several generations of pixels at this point compared to the alternatives.
vcxy
Yeah, I recently upgraded to the 9a from the 4a for $250 USD and am still really enjoying Pixels. I might just be out of the loop on what's available, but I can't imagine many other phones at this price are competitive.
triyambakam
6a to 9a here too!
imiric
It's probably a negligible percentage. Installing custom ROMs is niche even within the tech crowd.
ForHackernews
Typical mind fallacy.
According to one estimate, there are about 250k total GrapheneOS users https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/12281-how-many-grapheneos-u...
This source claims Google shipped 10 million devices last year https://coolest-gadgets.com/google-pixel-smartphones-statist...
If we generously assume every GrapheneOS user bought a new phone in the last year, 2.5% of those Pixels are running Graphene.
giantg2
Is it a fallacy if I never made a claim about percentage?
dvsfish
I think with the suggestion made at the end about that google would be getting out of phones (for some reason - perhaps graphene causing google long term phone margins to no longer be worth it? What are you actually suggesting?) it's hard to really know what you're going for here.
ysnp
It's hopeful news. GrapheneOS have had access to security patches as part of their agreement with an OEM partner already, so I assume these discussions/plans have been with the same partner. They are also hopeful of getting full access to AOSP releases which would greatly alleviate the pain Google have put custom OS developers through recently.
I am still very surprised that any OEM is willing to commit to monthly security updates and OS upgrades for a minimum of possibly five years. I think it would be a good thing for GrapheneOS to have more than one partnership in future for the Android ecosystem as a whole.
WD-42
This could be really good considering current events in the android space.
Animats
Oh, good. There's going to be a migration path for F-Droid users after Google's latest actions.
matheusmoreira
Amazing news!!! Google is incapable of selling their phones worldwide. Here's to hoping GrapheneOS's new phones will be easier to get hold of.
like_any_other
I applaud them - finding an OEM to build a phone for an Android fork is extremely difficult, because Google conditions access to the Play store on a manufacturer not building any phones with Android forks [1]. A move so ridiculously anti-competitive and hostile that it's outrageous they haven't been sued for it yet by at least the EU. It's not only that their products spy on you - they are actively doing all they can to kill any other products. If you care about privacy, they are your enemy, it's as simple as that.
[1] While it might not be an official requirement, being granted a Google apps license will go a whole lot easier if you join the Open Handset Alliance. The OHA is a group of companies committed to Android—Google's Android—and members are contractually prohibited from building non-Google approved devices. That's right, joining the OHA requires a company to sign its life away and promise to not build a device that runs a competing Android fork. Acer was bit by this requirement when it tried to build devices that ran Alibaba's Aliyun OS in China. Aliyun is an Android fork, and when Google got wind of it, Acer was told to shut the project down or lose its access to Google apps. - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on...
pavon
This is at least partially banned by the injunction from Epic vs Google:
7. For a period of three years ending on November 1, 2027, Google may not condition a payment, revenue share, or access to any Google product or service, on an agreement with an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) or carrier to preinstall the Google Play Store on any specific location on an Android device.
8. For a period of three years ending on November 1, 2027, Google may not condition a payment, revenue share, or access to any Google product or service, on an agreement with an OEM or carrier not to preinstall an Android app distribution platform or store other than the Google Play Store.
aniviacat
GrapheneOS' Reddit comment shown in the article says "selling devices with GrapheneOS preinstalled would be nice but wouldn't be required".
To me that sounds like devices with GrapheneOS preinstalled is not gonna happen.
biotinker
I would suspect that the sort of person (like myself) that would rather run GrapheneOS over LineageOS would rather install themselves than buy preinstalled. Much easier to verify no one slipped you an altered image.
ocdtrekkie
So the Android MADA and the AFA was wholesale struck as illegal a couple years ago, both in the US and elsewhere. So this requirement cannot legally exist. Whether Google will give someone a license who also ships a fork though is certainly in question, I suspect most OEMs aren't willing to risk their business seeing if the mafia wants to follow the law. Google has such a reputation for being abusive at this point an actual agreement or rule is no longer necessary.
NoboruWataya
Anyone know if partnering with a major OEM for official support makes it more likely that they will be able to consistently support things like banking apps (and maybe even payment apps) in the future?
I suspect the answer is "no" but I want to believe...
baobun
The situation you're alluding to is not a case of "GrapheneOS doesn't support banking apps" but rather "Some app publishers employ Google Play Protect and other measures in order to explicitly block GrapheneOS". GrapheneOS can not do anything about that. Choose your banking and payment apps accordingly.
FWIW I have run several banking apps on GrapheneOS without any issues whatsoever, never had any blocks or compatibility issues. Might just be luck of the draw but just to say you probably do have options.
NoboruWataya
Yes, I understand many banking apps do work and from reports I have read online it even seems like a couple of the banking apps I use are among the good ones. What gives me pause is how fragile the situation is. Banking apps get "upgraded" all the time to include new security "features". Already I have had my main banking app refuse to work because I had accessibility features enabled for a different app, and subsequently refuse to work again because I had developer mode enabled. If my banking app works on GrapheneOS I am convinced it is because the bank has not gotten round to blocking it yet and it's only a matter of time, unfortunately.
warkdarrior
If you want your bank to take the liability for any monetary losses from your account getting hacked (for example, through spyware using accessibility on Android), then you have to be OK with their requirements.
If you don't like their requirements, you need to take the liability yourself. You could use PayPal or a stablecoin to store your money.
Dylan16807
> GrapheneOS can not do anything about that.
OEM support is a step toward passing integrity, and that's what those apps are looking for.
charcircuit
>GrapheneOS can not do anything about that
They can fund the development and support work for attesting GrapheneOS along with funding support for compatibility with the os. The more users that GrapheneOS has the less money they'll need to pay to fund such a project.
xethos
I sincerely doubt it, but a large OEM with first-party support makes it (IMO) more likely for banking apps to support GApps-less handsets(instead of the inverse, Graphene supporting banking apps) - a dramatically better outcome, as that allows Waydroid more breathing room as a viable solution for Linux-first handsets too.
This would of course be contigent on GrapheneOS growing their market- and mind-share in the general public, while also taking several years to impact the least move-fast-and-break-things industry (consumer banking).
But still, a man can dream.
zb3
If those apps use "Play Integrity" (bad choice) then the probability is close to zero because it's Google that controls it. Other OEMs that currently pass it do it only because the device was certified by Google.
But being certified by Google of course precludes not preinstalling or sandboxing their GMS apps.
IlikeKitties
The answer is it depends. Banking and similar Apps trying to "protect" the user from themselves aka treat the user like a retarded child do this through several mechanisms:
> Google Play Integrity
Essentially a Google API that App Developers integrate that checks if the device runs an Operating System signed by Google as "Play Certified". This can go as far as being backed by a hardware trusted platform module. I doubt Google will certify GrapheneOS given their modifications towards sandboxing the play services. This can be faked to a degree but GrapheneOS choses not to do it and to fake the TPM part you need leaked keys. For more details on how to fake it look at this thread: https://xdaforums.com/t/guide-how-to-pass-strong-integrity-o...
> Fingerprinting the Device OS
This can very from app to app and just tries to fingerprint the device in many ways to see if it's running a custom rom of some kind. This does things like check to see if the bootloader is unlocked or if root is installed. I think this is something an official grapheneos phone might fix since the phone vendor could allow grapheneos to sign their releases as native equivalent
> Banning GrapheneOS by Name
Some Apps Developers literally ban GrapheneOS by name.
> Failures due to Google Play Sandboxing
Since GrapheneOS sandboxes Google Play Services there might be compatibility issues that prevent the app from working right. This would likely be unaffected by a GrapheneOS Phone.
> Failures due to Advanced Security Features
Some Apps just don't "like" the advanced security features like the hardened malloc and other protections and just fail. This can be disabled most of the time
esseph
If the phone is rooted, most banks will not support it. That includes grapheneOS.
MaximilianEmel
Your phone isn't rooted on GrapheneOS.
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hardran3
GOS isn't rooted.
smashah
GrapheneOS + Xiaomi hardware = Pixel killer
giantg2
"GrapheneOS didn’t reveal the name of its new partner, but said that those devices will be priced in the same range as Pixels"
Boo
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Night_Thastus
Yep. I like my midrange phone I got for ~$300. I'm not paying top-dollar just for GrapheneOS.
floxy
Pixel 9a was $350 during last week's Amazon prime day sale. Currently at $399. Likely to go down again for Black Friday, etc..
giantg2
I'd love a phone around that price that would run Graphene.
buyanoldermodel
Why not just buy an older pixel a model ...? Like a 7a ... It is cheaper and runs GOS.
beeflet
you can get a used 6a for ~$160
I really appreciate having a non-Google Android OS, free of Play services and other lock-in, and use Graphene on my own Pixel. The focus on security and hardening is also appreciated, but I wish the project were more ambitious in terms of actually improving on Android in terms of usability, features, and overall experience. As-is it feels like a barebones AOSP with all the security improvements existing as a sort of hypothetical improvement in the background.