Designating Antifa as a Domestic Terrorist Organization
105 comments
·September 22, 2025elgenie
This is an incoherent blog post.
1. The concept of "domestic terrorist organization" not a thing under any US law. Further, there exists no such organization in observable reality.
2. "All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations" is … nothing, because that's what federal law enforcement is already charged with.
odo1242
Also, Antifa is the name of a political ideology, not any particular organization.
xnx
Exactly. It's like calling feminism a terror organization (at the risk of giving them the idea).
Gigachad
My observation is it's not even a full ideology. More of just a term and symbology to describe being against fascism.
fufxufxutc
Antifa is being fought under the same legal framework that was created to fight the loosely federated idea of white nationalism. Both are violent, hateful ideologies that have no place in our country.
Tadpole9181
No, don't diminish what it is.
It is the sitting president of the United States stating that a political ideology that stands against fascism is illegal and directing the executive - the most powerful and only functional branch of the government under the GOP "unitary executive policy" - to take punitive actions against this thought crime.
k33n
1. Domestic terrorist organization specifically is not a thing under US law, that is true. But domestic terrorism is, and we do have RICO statutes. (https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R47885)
2. Not incoherent. Seems pretty specific: All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations — especially those involving terrorist actions — conducted by Antifa or any person claiming to act on behalf of Antifa, or for which Antifa or any person claiming to act on behalf of Antifa provided material support, including necessary investigatory and prosecutorial actions against those who fund such operations.
gnabgib
Discussion (114 points, 5 days ago, 106 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45283795
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baby
why was it flagged?
lenzm
That's how fascism works. This one is flagged now too
AnimalMuppet
Dude. Not everybody who flags political posts on HN is a fascist. Some are just really tired of the amount of political posts here.
A lot of people don't have any problem saying that this is wrong. They just don't want the discussion to be here. They aren't fascists, or working on behalf of fascists. They just want HN to not be the all-politics-all-the-time channel that it seems to threaten to become.
silicon5
Perhaps this is going to go like in the UK, where Palestine Action was proscribed, with the secondary effect that anyone who expresses support for Palestine Action is designated a terrorist even if they're not formally a member.
pluc
Y'all gonna do something about this or are you still waiting it out?
area51org
What would you propose? Donating money to blackhole political organizations? Taking to the streets? None of that, or much of anything else, will "do something about this". There is no doing anything about this. It's also just meaningless posturing, just another tantrum by a man-child.
baby
Remember, October 18th https://www.nokings.org/
Palomides
do not, under any circumstances, RSVP to a protest
pluc
If only there was a clause in your constitution that you hold particularly dear and deals with tyrannical governments. Either that or wait 3 years, show's just as entertaining for the rest of us.
next_xibalba
What do you suggest be done?
pluc
The same thing you would do if this were to happen in the middle east. Or do you only fight for "democracy" abroad?
bigyabai
What's the pay like?
slater
mid-term elections next year, maybe we can get some adults back in power
k33n
Those who have a problem with it can vote for Democrats, I guess. Elections do have consequences.
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oldpersonintx2
[dead]
stubish
The thing about terrorists is you can shoot live bullets at protesting terrorists and hold survivors in offshore military prisons, and anyone with a problem with this are supporting terrorism. It might even become legal.
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TheOtherHobbes
This makes as much as sense as claiming that Tylenol causes autism.
It's not even frightening - just comical.
the_gastropod
I disagree. It is frightening because a not insignificant number of people take him seriously. I know multiple people who took Ivermectin for Covid during his first presidency.
The “terrorist” designation of drug cartels is the excuse they’re using (and currently getting away with) for the 4 boats they’ve bombed into oblivion in the Caribbean.
It’s kind of funny in its stupidity. But it’s also frightening how impactful that stupidity has been.
jawns
The most troubling aspect of this EO is that Antifa is not an actual organization, nor even a centrally organized movement. It doesn't have a recognized leader, nor does it have a cohesive or consistent ideology. In short, it's not an it.
True, there are groups that have claimed to be anti-fascist and have protested the administration's actions. But much of this activity has been spontaneous rather than organized. The word "Antifa" is more of a derogatory term from the right than a term used by an organized group with countable members.
Because of the fuzziness of what Antifa actually is and who counts as a member, this EO gives the federal government the ability to label people as domestic terrorists using a very broad definition. Given this administration's habit of pushing the bounds of its interpretive authority, I worry that this will have a chilling effect on protected political speech and protest.
overboard2
https://www.rosecityantifa.org/
Can you notify them that they don't exist?
khazhoux
Fair, but still this isn’t a local chapter of a national Antifa organization. So it raises the question: is every local group that calls themselves “Antifa” now subject to investigation for domestic terrorism?
lostlogin
> Antifa as a Terrorist Threat. Antifa is a militarist, anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States Government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law.
Does it? Or does it call for the Trump administration to be overthrown?
russdill
The two flags in the logo represent the communist and anarchist flags. The part about wanting to do away with the US government isn't exactly inaccurate.
nelox
An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
GuinansEyebrows
anarchist communism, or anarcho-communism, is a coherent political philosophy. you can read about it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism
the_gastropod
Yea, except that logo is from the original German Antifa, who was concerned with doing away with a different government…
jltsiren
The original Antifa opposed both Nazis and moderates. They were particularly eager to oppose social democrats, which Stalin and Comintern saw as their main enemies. And it lasted little more than a year before the Nazis took over.
bluefirebrand
Do you think that talking about overthrowing the legitimately elected government should not qualify as "terrorist threat"?
whoamii
As long as we consider the Jan 6 rioters terrorists as well, I’m good.
amanaplanacanal
They were just picnickers out having a good time. I guess.
bluefirebrand
I'm fine with that, in case you think this was some kinda gotcha
k33n
I'm good with you not being good :)
ternaryoperator
Terrorism generally has specific elements; violence done against civilians for political or religious ends. So the Oklahoma City bombing would be terrorism, but the mass shooting in Las Vegas would not be. Unless calling for the overthrow of the govt includes a call to violence against civilians, it would not fit the traditional definition of terrorism.
lostlogin
So how would that compare with Trumps crowd storming the capitol?
That was apparently fine, but antifa calling for it (if that even happened) is terrorism?
Politicians call for governments to resign/quit etc on a regular basis. Happened here in New Zealand last week.
SanjayMehta
> Does it? Or does it call for the Trump administration to be overthrown?
From an outsider’s perspective they ARE asking for a democratically elected government to be overthrown.
amanaplanacanal
Who are the "they" referenced in this statement?
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fuzzer371
So this implies that anyone against fascism is a terrorist. Got it. Really sends a clear message which side this administration is on.
elevation
The Patriot Act was named to imply that its supporters are patriotic and its detractors are not.
The name "Antifa" has similar implications, while similarly missing the mark.
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fuzzer371
Yeah, except "Antifa" are the people punching literal Nazi's.
qwerpy
And firebombing electric car dealerships, vandalizing cars, etc.
fufxufxutc
You keep using the word "literal", but I don't think it means what you think it means.
macinjosh
If you really think that is true. That MAGA == nazi, then why aren’t you taking up arms? I think it’s because you know you are exaggerating
major505
Beating people who think different than you is the pretty much facism. Just saying.
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baby
There was a time where punching a Nazi was not controversial. We're past that I guess.
Ralfp
We are on schedule. People seem to need to get a reminder every few generations why authoritarians are terrible at running the country. Sometimes the process is peaceful. Sometimes it isn’t.
But the blame is not 100% on the authoritarians. The „we’ll refuse to do anything about your living conditions so you’ll radicalise and vote in somebody radical” is part of the cycle too.
endtime
Maybe look up what the ACLU did in Skokie in 1978...
qwerpy
Well when impressionable people get to define for themselves what a Nazi is (e.g. a car dealership for a company whose CEO we don’t like) and then firebomb it in the name of “punching the Nazis” then yeah I’m glad we’re trying to get past that.
major505
[flagged]
grumio
>Beating people who think different than you is the pretty much facism.
No. Fascism is fascism.
I'd recommend reading Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism" if you are interested in learning.
major505
FAcism is a defined set of political and economic ideas that most people acused of being a racist do not check the boxes.
Stop behaving like a kid. Politics exists as an alternative to violence. If you going to punch people on the street don't complain when you and your friends are under a boot.
cies
Fascism used to have a meaning. And that meaning used to be different from "violence towards those who think different".
But nowadays... It seems to be used by anyone who does not like a group. Like when people overuse the word narcissist to the point it just means "asshole as perceived by the observer".
throwmeaway222
Well that's word play which means as much as Biden declaring people that want to make America Great are awful people.
philistine
One is an opinion voiced that has no legal consequence. The other is an order of the government declaring as terrorism what amounts to a philosophy. The president did not declare a group as terrorism, he declared an idea terrorism. How is that equivalent?
Smeevy
Sure, buddy. It's all the exact same. This insanity is just like it was under Biden.
Remember the time that Biden canceled Gutfeld! and everyone went crazy about it? What about the time that Biden just gave himself the magical ability to tariff the rest of the world based on whimsy? What about all of the violence from those awful leftists every time some MAGA chud wore a "Let's go, Brandon!" shirt or put a sticker of Biden hog-tied and gagged on the back of their chudmobile?
The important thing here is that you are awful people. I'm saying that based on the lack of morals, empathy, and basic human decency that has become the calling card of American regressives.
stale2002
> What about all of the violence from those awful leftists
If you actually care, which I doubt you do, there have been studies measuring the total damage done during many left wing riots.
For just one example the total cost for the riots that happened between May 26 to June 8, 2020, across 20 states was around 1-2 billion dollars, according to reports.
https://www.axios.com/2020/09/16/riots-cost-property-damage
It is riots like those mentioned that I presume this executive order is targeting.
I got flagged yesterday for this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45327333 (Ask HN: Is America Going to Become an Autocracy?). I got advised to stop reading twitter, so I added it to my /etc/hosts file, but it seems like the current administration is doing everything to scare me away. I'm legitimately wondering if I should move away from the US now.