How can I influence others without manipulating them?
16 comments
·September 21, 2025dsubburam
twodave
This is fine when the question is, “What’s for dinner?” However, there is nothing wrong with having core principles that aren’t able to be swayed. This is called having integrity. It’s important to understand where these lines fall within yourself and those you are speaking with. Some arguments aren’t worth having in an effort to persuade, but rather they should be discussions aimed at understanding, being vulnerable and finding ways to respect and live at peace among people we have fundamental differences with. Otherwise we are no different than Crusaders and Jihadists.
klodolph
I really don’t like this article. I think this article reflects more our desire to categorize things into neatly numbered lists, and reflects less any thorough understanding of influence. Big lists of aphorisms. Less in the way of concrete detail. Words are used the wrong way. Concepts are broken up into incoherent lists.
“Ratianolising” is the word used in the most wrong way. The word normally describes inventing post-hoc reasons for some decision or behavior.
“Negotiating” is a big list of aphorisms which pull in different directions. Some of the advice sounds like amateurish art-of-the-deal tips which encourage you to extract as many concessions as you can from the other side. Some of the advice pulls in the opposite direction. And then, to mix everything up, the advice to compromise and meet half-way rears its ugly head.
The more I read in this article, the worse my opinion gets. I’m stopping.
:-(
bentt
I've always found that it's about defining win/win situations. Also, you should make real human connection in the process. If you don't like the person, that's a real issue. It may not be that the person is unlikeable, it may be that you aren't finding a perspective that aligns right.
But yeah, aligning incentives and making friends. Even if they don't go the way you want, you both still had a positive experience and can potentially find a way to work together in the future.
Frannky
I think it's about helping them map out the options. So, listening to what they want and truthfully sharing your opinion on how the different options will solve their problem. If the best option for them is what you sell, it's a win-win. If it's not, all good. They will thank you if you truly helped them and gave them the best option for their problem. Obviously, this isn't possible if what you sell is never the best option. In that case, the problem exists before the conversation even happens. Either make a better product or change company
treetalker
I'll respond to the title instead of the article.
As an attorney, I've found that the best persuasion is the removal of impediments and friction standing between the person you hope to influence and what they want to do in the first place.
Most other tactics amount to force or deceit ("manipulation").
smcin
Are you talking about the judge, opposing attorney, your client, coworker, business partner, or who? Surely that context matters much more than you're suggesting.
rendx
(Not OP) How so? Behind every "no", there is a good reason. If you are honestly curious to understand the objection or hesitation, you may find ways to address them, and find others opening up to your suggestions when their points have been heard. Fundamental principle behind NVC.
sema4hacker
If I successfully influence someone, I feel I've manipulated them nonetheless.
klodolph
I see this sentiment from time to time in the HN crowd, and I’m really interested in understanding more about it.
My first reaction to this? I think that you’re using “manipulate” to describe a process where somebody doesn’t want to do something, and make them do it anyway, but without using force. It feels like this has to be rooted in some kind of denial of other people’s free will—that they are somehow incapable of choosing to help you or agree with you, and can only be tricked. It seems like you would need to believe that other people don’t genuinely like you or value you.
kaechle
Those are some bounding leaps you made without much context. Are you in sales?
Kidding aside, my first reaction was: perhaps the occasions they were aware of their own influence were ones in which they didn't much care for the outcome. Or maybe a conflict of interest, like trying to win over a hiring manager for a position you know you'll hate.
I don't think cajoling or persuading others inherently manipulative, but I can think of a lot of examples where doing so feels grimy.
rendx
In one of many possible definitions, manipulation requires deceit; a hidden agenda or goal.
In an "original" definition, manipulation literally means "to move". In that sense, we all manipulate. We move.
The two combined together: You're allowed to "move". You are broadly "allowed" to "manipulate" in that sense. If you add lies, deceit, etc, you're in territory others might not find acceptable, and will in turn reject you or remove you from their lives.
If you feel bad about your "success" but can't see why on a rational level, you may want to remember how your parents or other people growing up treated you. Can you find some childhood memories related to this? Potentially "adverse" experiences related to "manipulation" around you?
codr7
So, let's say you inspire someone just by existing, these things happen.
tonystubblebine
Advice a sales coach gave me was “sales is sorting, not convincing.”
I always found that put me in the right headspace to focus on listening first, then being clear. Whether they sort themselves into a yes or no is on them.
jdbernard
The solution is not to deny yourself the tools of persuasion or "manipulation" but to be authentic and transparent. It's deceptiveness that makes influence or persuasion manipulative, not the tools and techniques.
fuzzfactor
Maybe just try to set an example without any attempt to be persuasive at all.
Persuasion that happens in good faith is a two-way street. You explain your position, but also truly listen to theirs. If you are prepared to change your own position based on what they say, then you can hope that they might change theirs based on what you say.
If it is truly two way in this sense, including your best efforts to extract from the other party their strongest, potentially unexpected, arguments for their position and give them your due consideration, it shouldn't feel like manipulation.