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AirPods live translation blocked for EU users with EU Apple accounts

rickdeckard

Quite clearly the EU DMA.

As part of the Digital Markets Act (DMA) evaluation [0], Apple was found to operate a market for headphones connected to its devices, while competing in the same market with own products and giving itself a competitive advantage by creating OS-features exclusive to them.

The EU found this is not a level playing field for competition and ordered that they have to make such OS features available for other accessory manufacturers as well.

I guess they are currently either trying to make a case for the EU on how it is technically impossible to provide the feature to others, prove that this is somehow not an OS-feature (and should be excluded) or delay any action to maximize the benefit of this competitive advantage in other markets.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are also beats headphones in the pipeline for which they want to use this feature as competitive USP...

[0] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_...

rickdeckard

Also, Apple cannot name this as reason explicitly, because users may look up the details of that ruling and may find themselves agreeing with the sentiment...

  "[..] The measures will grant device manufacturers and app developers improved access to iPhone features that interact with such devices (e.g. displaying notifications on smartwatches), faster data transfers (e.g. peer-to-peer Wi-Fi connections, and near-field communication) and easier device set-up (e.g. pairing).

  As a result, connected devices of all brands will work better on iPhones. Device manufacturers will have new opportunities to bring innovative products to the market, improving the user experience for consumers based in Europe. The measures ensure that this innovation takes place in full respect of users' privacy and security as well as the integrity of Apple's operating systems."

crazygringo

This is probably due to concern about legal regulations around temporarily recording someone else's voice so it can be processed for translation. After all, there is no mechanism for the person you're talking to to provide "consent", and the EU does have particularly strong laws on this.

Alternatively it might have something to do with the translation being performed in iOS, and the capability not being exposed to competitor audio devices, and therefore Apple needs assurance the EU won't consider it anticompetitive?

Or both.

isodev

I think the explanation is a lot simpler - iOS to date does not correctly support most European languages. Using Siri in anything other than English is a pain and using the Translate feature is available in only a handful of countries.

For anything remotely powerful enough, iOS will have to send voice to some server for processing and that’s a privacy shit show.

d1sxeyes

More likely the second than the first. It’s already the case that you technically “record” the audio at one end and then transmit it to the other. I can also forward a caller to voicemail where their message is transcribed in real time, which is fundamentally the same mechanics.

Or even more likely, as others have suggested, it’s Apple being petty and withholding features from EU users to put pressure on the EU.

graeme

>Or even more likely, as others have suggested, it’s Apple being petty and withholding features from EU users to put pressure on the EU.

The EU has threatened massive fines for creating features not available to competitors. And the EU refuses to vet a feature officially in advance.

Under such conditions, how would you distinguish being petty from complying with the law?

The EU probably imagined the outcome would be: change your business practices entirely for the EU, and make all new features open to all, immediately, perpetually, everywhere.

But that's not the norm for the vast majority of companies, for a variety of sensible reasons. Given that it's actually hard to do that, witholding new features until you're told "yes this is ok" is a rational response to the law.

toast0

> I can also forward a caller to voicemail where their message is transcribed in real time, which is fundamentally the same mechanics.

Voicemail greetings typically inform the caller the message will be recorded, and there'a often a beep which is an indicator of recording as well. If you don't consent to recording, you can hang up without leaving a message.

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simonh

Pressure on them to do what, if there’s nothing about this proscribed by the EU?

_boffin_

How would this function in two-party consent states like California? My understanding is limited, but from what I've read, this might still violate consent laws unless explicitly disclosed—even in public spaces.

I recently explored building a real-time STT system for sales calls to support cold-calling efforts. However, the consensus from my research was that, even if audio is streamed live without storage, consent laws could still present significant hurdles.

gtirloni

At the point where you enable this feature (you wouldn't walk around with it enabled at all times because why?) the phone shows a screen asking you to get consent and the other person touches yes/no and that's it? Or would a signed form with a government seal be required?

ffsm8

IANAL, but from my understanding the user needs to get consent, not Apple. There would be no consent screen, apple would at most give a small dialog warning to the user that this usage is illegal (for the user). unless every participant has given consent

crazygringo

I think it really depends on the legal definition of recording or what it's used for.

Common sense says that a recording that only exists for a few seconds, and is utilized only by the person a speaker is intending to speak to, and is never permanently stored, should be fine. And we can assume Apple has made sure this is legal in its home state of California.

But EU law might not have sufficient legal clarity on this if it was written in a particularly open-ended way.

rsynnott

Also potentially AI Act concerns. Quite a lot of things involving our good friends the magic robots have a delayed launch in the EU, because they need to be compliant, whereas the space is for practical purposes completely unregulated in most other places.

JSR_FDED

My understanding is that this works on-device (via the iPhone), so I wonder what the regulatory issue is.

Perhaps the regulations treat is as if you’re “recording” the person you’re speaking with, without their consent?

pornel

Apple's response to EU's attempt to open up App Store has been full of pettiness, tantrums, and malicious compliance.

Apple is most likely withholding features in EU as a bargaining chip in antitrust negotiations, and to discredit EU's consumer protections. Pretending things in Europe are randomly unknowably illegal for no reason supports Apple's narrative and popular opinion in the US.

jjice

Is there any evidence for this at all? The EU has plenty of regulation surrounding audio recording, as other comments have said. Instead of jumping to the assumption of malicious intent, I think those make more sense up front. I don't think this is a real bargaining chip for Apple to use against the EU for the side loading stuff.

I dislike Apple's malicious compliance with the EU too, but it seems unrelated here, at least without any proof.

cenamus

Do no US states have similar laws regarding recording strangers?

JustExAWS

The EU said that everything that Apple creates for its own devices has to have APIs for third parties. The translation feature only works for AirPods.

hn8726

Ok so it's not "airpods live translation" really, but "ios live translation" and there's no technical reason to limit it to airpods?

whazor

Also the feature doesn't work on Android, so it is not an 'AirPods' feature but a 'iOS'+'AirPods' feature.

gabrielso

Yeah make it work in the US where you can fly 4 hours in any direction and still land somewhere that speaks the same language, and not in Europe where a 1:30h drive takes you through 3 different countries that don't know how to talk to each other...

wil421

Where do you live? I could easily find people who speak, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Hindu, Telugu, English, Spanish, Thai, and Portuguese and I haven’t even left the parking lot. It would be harder to find a German or French speaker.

nine_k

Do all these people also speak some English?

(I live in NYC where the mix of languages is thick, but I rarely have to reach even for my Spanish, because English is still commonly understood everywhere, at least to some degree.)

bdcravens

In Texas and other parts of the US, Spanish is a primary language for many. Even when they speak a second language, better communication comes for all by using the language they're most comfortable with.

aegypti

It also works in the entire Rest of World outside the EU

urda

You can blame the EU for that, not Apple.

notrealyme123

No you should absolutely blame apple for that. They fear to lose their monopoly and want to set an example for other countries.

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nozzlegear

13-14% of the US population speak Spanish at home.

JustExAWS

I can easily drive one and half miles in Orlando to my barber shop where half the barbers only speak Spanish. I’m not complaining, it forces me to use my A1-A2 level Spanish fluency.

numbers

if I have a US account and I travel to the EU, that should work?

WinstonSmith84

What are the alternatives?

stainablesteel

spitting-drink-out-laughing.gif

but how would these airpods really be able to know you're in the EU? this should be easily hackable

qgin

It's just for registrations that are associated with EU based iCloud accounts.

ageospatial

GDPR is solid. But main reason is that it's just hard to make it work with the AI act, various languages could also be the reason (product not adding enough value to customers?)

Y-bar

> Apple doesn't give a reason for the restriction

If there were real issues with GDPR or the AI Act Apple would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by mentioning at least the generalities of _why_. But they did no such thing so we can only assume it is not any of those things which are the real issues.

4ndrewl

I'd be surprised if this isn't about data residency and gdpr. As someone using the headphones you may end up becoming a "data processor" in gdpr-legal terms.

You've not given the person being recorded any way to exercise their legal rights around collecting, inspecting and deleting their data.

pornel

GDPR is about collection and processing of personally identifiable information. These are specific legal terms that depend on the context in which the data is collected and used, not just broadly any data anywhere that might have something to do with a person.

GDPR is aimed at companies building user databases, not allowing them to completely ignore security, accuracy, user complaints, and sell anything to anybody while lying about it. It doesn't limit individual people's personal use of data.

robin_reala

GDPR doesn’t mention “personally identifiable information” once; it’s concerned with personal data, which is “any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’)”.

The rest is correct: the restrictions are aimed at organisations, not individuals.

[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/679/oj/eng#art_4.tit_...

4ndrewl

The restrictions are not aimed at organisations, but to protect individuals.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-usi...

"If your CCTV system captures images of people outside the boundary of your private domestic property – for example, from neighbours’ homes or gardens, shared spaces, or from public areas – then the GDPR and the DPA will apply to you. You will need to ensure your use of CCTV complies with these laws. If you do not comply with your data protection obligations you may be subject to appropriate regulatory action by the ICO, as well as potential legal action by affected individuals."

You, as an individual, have data protection obligations, if your ring doorbell captures audio/video about someone outside your property boundaries. The apple translation service seems analogous.

4ndrewl

GDPR does covers individual's use of eg Ring doorbells insofar as recording video and audio outside of your own property. This would seem to be analogous.

GDPR is aimed at protecting _individual's_ personal information, irrespective of what or who is collecting or processing it.

Daishiman

I mean studying a technology with this scale to assess its impact before allowing it freely is… not terrible?

solardev

What do you mean? Aren't EU regulations obsolete now and unable to keep up with economic realities, causing the EU to lose its competitive edge? My Airpods told me so!

lm28469

The whole US economy is propped up by FAANG which are either data collectors, surveillance tools, ad delivery mechanism or competing to suck your attention out of your body, you can keep your competitive edge.

JumpCrisscross

> whole US economy is propped up by FAANG

This is nonsense. The stock market had been propped up by FAANG. But with AI we have a few trillion dollars of value being created by new entrants (e.g. OpenAI, xAI, Anthropic) and legacy companies newly stepping on FAANG (e.g. Oracle, Perplexity).

It may all be a fever dream. But like the dark fiber of the 90s, it should—worst case—leave behind a lot of energy and datacentre infrastructure. (If Washington would get out of the way.)

JustExAWS

Shouldn’t the lack of any major tech companies out of the EU and comparatively piss poor comp of tech workers tell you that?

solardev

I was being facetious, but no... I think the quality of life, in terms of livability, in the EU is much higher than in the US. I would much rather have strong social and consumer and legal protections and healthcare and safety nets than strong corporations that rule everything.

If you're rich, I'm sure the US is great. If you're not, it's not a great place to live.

lm28469

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Yuropoor

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NoSalt

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