Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

And their recent updates have made basic autopilot frustrating to use. Their reliance on only camera and map data is really showing how much Elon actually knows about self driving reliability.

Heck, the backup cross traffic detection only alerts when a car or pedestrian is already crossed and out of view. It’s absurdly bad.

Tesla exists to make money. Every car company in the world charges more than independent mechanics for repairs, because that's how you make money.

I think it's a desperate attempt by the board to get Musk to focus on Tesla again. Tesla has a PE ratio of around 230 right now. If that comes back down to the reality of a declining-sales mid-sized car company, it's going to be an absolute blood bath.

Seems counterintuitive, no?

The first thing I thought of when I saw that pay package being floated was the current state that Tesla is in. That's the primary reason such a package seems so fucking bonkers.

Hiding the cyberflop is much easier than explaining why they have monitors riding in robotaxis while Waymo works

A pay package of that magnitude is a material business fact. If Tesla is lying about this, that would likely constitute securities fraud and risks imprisonment for the people involved in making it.

Tesla was not first to market for keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS. In fact, they are behind. A couple of automakers are now shipping level 3 ADS systems.

I’ve recently test-driven EVs from a few brands, including Tesla. One stood out for building an EV that actually felt like a functioning car: Kia. It actually has buttons for things that are commonly adjusted while driving. The current crop of Teslas don’t even have physical controls for reverse.

> And the repairability thing is a meme from back when they had part production lag due to crazy scaling.

Respectfully, bullshit; auto insurance companies I've dealt with certainly begged to differ, and have priced comprehensive/collision premiums for Teslas accordingly.

I don't know why you're getting junked. A friend's Model Y was rear-ended, and he had it fixed in less than two weeks. Did have a sensor problem afterwards, but that was taken care of immediately. I think you're accurate that they are still ahead of the competition, but the race is getting closer.

This. None of them make me go "Damn, that's a good looking car..." any more than a number of others.

The Cybertruck is just am embarrassment, design wise.

If Teslas were durable, built well, easily repairable, with strong aftermarket support, I would applaud them for sticking with the same bland design instead of endlessly tweaking it like every other car and tech company in a misguided effort to stay "fresh". However the opposite has occurred where Teslas appear to be bland, poorly made, and unrepairable.

My wife thinks they all look like jellybeans. Tesla makes them like that to maximize efficiency, and they’re still #1 on that metric, but people don’t care about that.

> I don't know why we're putting politics aside. I'm sure those political escapades didn't help in cratering their stock.

I fully agree, I just wanted to focus specifically on how their offerings are lackluster even if there weren’t other problems.

I agree and actually think it’s the overwhelming factor. People loved Tesla and Musk until he started promoting his politics. It was a stupid thing to do as a CEO, especially for a company whose customers tend toward the opposite end of the political spectrum.

We're putting aside the political stuff because there isn't a lot to discuss. You're either cool with it, or Tesla is completely off the table. And nobody will likely be switching camps at this point.

I know the Cybertruck as a "release" is stretching it, but it technically did release. Prematurely, 100%. But it's out there.

The QC on the Cybertruck pretty much shows why they lost their brand power over the years, though. Even when ignoring the politics.

Tesla's focus on robotics feels like Meta's focus on AR: Waaay ahead of time.

I may be proven wrong, but until then I'll point to ~ten years of FSD promises.

they are not betting the company on robotics, they just needed something to keep the crazies buying stock now that full “self” driving fantasy is over :)

The Model 3 was released in 2017 (!).

The Model Y is an incredible car, way more than decent. Unfortunately Elon is a fascist traitor so I cannot upgrade it, and no one else makes anything half as good.

The model Y is the best selling car in the world, so this statement doesn't really make sense

Ford makes plenty of sedans. It doesn't sell any in Canada or its neighbour.

Don't forget that about the other 95% of the people on earth

> You can thank CAFE er al for that.

Somewhat, but I'll blame business finance way, way, way more.

The US automakers are doing the exact same dumbass thing they did in the 1970s with "BIGGER!-shouted (and more profitable)-whispered" until the Japanese automakers showed up and wiped the floor with them.

Well, BYD is coming and is going to wipe the floor with them.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

As things stand, assuming that Nissan can manage to remain afloat, that “Model 2” market segment is going to be snapped up by the 2026 Leaf, which will start at ~$25k before incentives and is just a touch bigger than the Bolt EUV was and comes with NACS, fast charging, and a properly cooled battery. There’s little in the US EV market that comes close to competing at that price range.

Keep in mind that these things will be built in Japan and imported. I’m sure Tesla could’ve figured out some way to have an offering the same price or cheaper.

It's a 6-seater, but I don't think it fills all of that category gap because it's barely a 6-seater.

All the other 3-rows have decent headroom in that last row. The Kia and Hyundai almost 42 inches. I haven't looked into the Cadillac or Volvo, but from the outside they look about the same.

All but the shortest adults and children will be uncomfortable in the Tesla third row. I'll bet it's used more for groceries than passengers.

To compete in the 3-row market, I think Tesla's gotta build something that can accommodate adults too.

The problem is that the X isn't a particularly large SUV. The X is slightly wider and about 1ft longer.

And in many ways it's inferior to the Y. Tesla's mega casting and structural pack gives the Y excellent range and a lower weight for a cheaper battery.

I think the reason Tesla hasn't done mega casting and structural packs for the other lineups (besides the equipment costs) is because it'd make them eat into the revenue of the top tier models. A model 3 cutting down several hundred pounds would be range competitive with the model S. The shorter range LFP batteries could still land you in previously long range land.

The Bolt is coming back. Chevy’s reason for discontinuing it wasn’t that it didn’t sell, but that the platform was outdated. The new one is on their current platform and roughly analogous to the old EUV model.

Pricing is another question though, and no CarPlay/AA while also coming from an old guard auto manufacturer means no sale from me.

It seems you don't have BYD in the US, except for buses? Here in Australia you see far more BYDs than Teslas by now. They're cheaper with a bit more range.

EV trucks do make sense, because most people (in the US) want a truck and don’t tow anything.

> trucks don’t make sense at all, they can’t tow unless you want to recharge every 100 miles. Also range is severely reduced offroading.

Most truck drivers will never tow a thing in their lives, and they will almost certainly never offroad (unless you count the leaves on the driveway)

EV trucks make perfect sense in that context.

Lucid offers the best range of any EV. And while not really directly comparable to the Model S Plaid because it is twice the price of the Plaid—- Lucid’s Air Sapphire absolutely out performs the Plaid in every scenario. I think the days of Tesla’s dominance in the EV space are dwindling rapidly. If Lucid can get their midsized car out, at a reasonable price, I don’t see any real reason to buy a Tesla unless you just particularly fancy one. That’s not a great proposition for a company that was once considered a tech company with a huge lead over everyone else. It’s only a matter of time before the double whammy of lackluster innovation and Musk’s politics come home to roost.

Yeah, because BYD and other chinese makers are locked out.

Semi-solid state is coming for Tesla's lunch.

"Tesla has image problem." You mean the multiple nazi salutes? The "don't apologize to your past" to the AfD? Being high on something on national television? Unhinged posts on twitter? Kekius Maximus?

EVs are luxury products. You can get 90% of electification with a 50-mile-range PHEV and mitigate the charging infrastructure problem. I have a used Tesla and a PHEV, and if my PHEV only had 50 instead of the paltry 20 mile range, 100% of my daily trips would be fully electrified.

As for further examples of Musk's incompetence, there should be three different badges: Tesla, an ultra-high luxury brand that focuses on traditional cabin comfort, and a low end mass brand. They should have a minivan, station wagon, an actual large SUV, a subcompact city car, a real pickup truck, a work van, and where is the goddamn semi?

Tesla should have bought a struggling auto company for manufacturing, design, and suppliers, and used that for the low-end badge and for PHEVs. Nissan would have been perfect I would think.

Tesla should at this point have joint ventures with huge numbers of electrification avenues: construction equipment, prosumer lawn mowers, "side by sides", golf carts, ATVs, jet skis, boats, if it has an ICE motor, Tesla should be expanding into it with a good name brand.

Of course Tesla solar is moribund, the solar roof is nowhere.

And if anyone claims again that grid storage will deliver some massive sales to Tesla: any success is temporary. Grid will be won by sodium ion and other grid-specific storage chemistries that cylindrical cell manufacture won't be able to compete with.

And yet another point: Tesla's cylindrical cells were an advantage ... five years ago. It's not anymore. Sodium Ion, LFP, semi-solid state, sulfur chems, all will probably be pouch. Cylindrical is basically legacy manufacturing tech.

Musk's cozying up and inevitable fallout with Trump definitely put the EV credits in crosshairs. Probably wouldn't have survived the era of insanity, but that gravy train (1/3 of tesla's profits ... at least) is over.

Finally, let's not forget the total disaster that the dry-cathode 4680 battery cell is. Basically still vaporware, and the Chinese manufacturers have better tech already in manufacture.

AND YET, I'm sure the stock will go up based on the bad news.

No, because Tesla has a much higher baseline

Low baseline, more to gain.

Another POV is the measurement is meaningless, and the market seems to agree.

The auto industry is a good bet as long as you think Americans of means gravitate towards a car lifestyle, which is almost certainly true.

You can only cut costs so much before you're selling the equivalent of a $50k geo metro.

When they removed the center horn and the stalks from their cars, they officially jumped the shark. But I bet they saved at least $50 per car from their costs. I still can't believe the NHTSA hasn't issued a recall.

And whats the real growth when controlled for inflation (price increases)?

You mean like the thing where Telsa magically sold a not-really-logical number of vehicles in Canada when subsidies were running out there?

Ford maverick has waitlists. Small and around 30k

These days often on ridiculous 108 month notes. Oof. Paying $95,000 for a $70,000 truck that depreciates to $50,000 the moment you drive it off the lot and worth maybe $10K at loan maturity?

Politics aside, Musk is lying there -- or at least telling some people what they want to hear while behaving differently elsewhere .. politics aside.

Tesla's received favorable attention for it's "claim" they are (were?) working on a $30k car.

And that techno-ideological claim that "all you need for self-driving is a camera" is a cost-savings solution. [ A robotics prof, ( I think at a university in Philadelphia ? ) cites a statistic that camera based navigation will succeed 97% of the time, max. So, 3% failures over all scenarios. ]

What he actually thinks is that autonomous vehicles would collapse the car market. That's why he things that.

So literally he killed the affordable 'Model 2' because self driving would destroy 80% of the market and if that was true there wasn't demand.

So he decided to only focus on 'RoboTaxi'.

Yeah absolutely trash cars. They milked the customer for a long time with that crap. About time things changed

I agree , but I still feel picking and choosing indicators is misleading. A story includes many observations . You did a better job