The electric fence stopped working years ago
99 comments
·August 15, 2025lordnacho
logifail
> I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message
This.
I'm spending the week in my hometown with my 9-year old daughter to give her the chance of some time with her grandparents. We live hundreds of miles (and several countries) away.
While walking along I mentioned to her that an old college friend of mine also lived in this town along with her husband and their daughter.
For perspective: way back then we shared a house, during that time we both ground through our PhDs in parallel, later she and her husband came to our wedding, we went to their wedding, all that stuff.
I explained to my daughter that we've not been in touch for the best part of 20 years and I was a bit sad about that.
<my daughter thought for a bit>
my daughter: "did you have a fight?"
me: "no! of course not! why do you ask?"
my daughter: "maybe you should just write to her"
inglor_cz
I would tell you to do the same, and I am freshly 47...
Verdex
I've got some sort of facial blindness. It's hard to tell exactly how it works because I've got a bunch of unconscious coping mechanisms for identifying people.
One of the times I got it comically wrong was in college where I made a friend for a semester because I thought he was someone I already knew. So I can absolutely believe that attitude and approach makes a huge difference because I've been in at least one scenario where falsely believing I was friends with someone was all it took to be friends.
rikroots
My coping mechanism for interacting with people who approach me is: 1. Act friendly and open when they start talking to me; 2. centre the questions on them, hoping that they reveal information that might clue me in on who they are. It's only in recent years that I've learned step 3: if I haven't recognised them in the first 10-20 seconds, mention that I'm face blind (usually as an apology) and ask them who they are. Most times that is enough to stop the encounter turning sour.
My coping mechanism for approaching a person I think I might know (usually in spaces where I wouldn't expect to encounter them) is: don't. At least not immediately. Rather, watch and observe (if possible) to see if the voice/gestures/body positions/etc firm up enough to bring the certainty levels up and the risk levels down.
I think I'd make a good spy, if only I didn't suffer from this face blindness nonsense.
stroz
Wow, this is incredible. You just proved that connection is 90% attitude, 10% history. You became friends because you acted like friends. Sometimes not knowing the "rules" is the superpower.
ChrisMarshallNY
That's the secret with kids.
The "rules" don't really start, until we get older.
I grew up overseas (from where I am now -for some of you, it's probably home).
Most of my playmates were drastically different from me.
parineum
Or they would have been friends anyway and it was just a coincidence.
bravesoul2
Did you like you classmates. What if you didnt. One of the great freedoms is you can pick your friends.
pferde
Then you do not go to talk to them. You do not have to. But you can, if you want.
jonahx
> The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me".
Yes. I do this too and wish more people would.
The qualifications, the "what have you been up to?"s -- such mind-numbingly boring conventions. Who wants to go through a "catchup" interview before talking about what's interesting. If that's the price, it's not worth it.
losteric
> The qualifications, the "what have you been up to?"s -- such mind-numbingly boring conventions. Who wants to go through a "catchup" interview before talking about what's interesting
If I think about someone, that's exactly what's on my mind and most interesting. What else would you talk about?
derefr
Since we're talking about people you used to be closer with — presumably the same kind of stuff you would have talked to them about "back in the day", when you were already continuously aware of what they've been up to because you were up to it alongside them / constantly making plans with them / hearing what they were doing from shared other friends / etc.
jonahx
> What else would you talk about?
A shared memory, a common friend, perhaps one who's died, their opinion on a movie, a book you're sure they've read, some current event, a funny story they, specifically, might appreciate, etc, etc.
zdc1
"Assuming rapport" is hugely important for developing and maintaining connections. People often are not sure how they feel about you or where your relationship stands, so they look for hints in how you feel about them. If you are polite and formal, you are telling them the two of you are not close. If you excited to see them and tell you about the hotdog you ate yesterday, you're taking the lead and setting a tone that's close and familiar.
We're basically wired to consider social cues and signals. Maybe 10% of the time we make a logical judgement of "I really do/don't want to be friends with this person because xyz" and the other 90% is just reading/sending vibes.
stroz
Thank you so much for sharing this! What you’re doing is honestly amazing. You skip the negotiation about whether we’re allowed to be human with each other. You just assume connection is the default.
The truth is that people mirror the energy you bring. Show up tentative, they’ll be tentative. Show up like old friends, and suddenly you are.
Just refusing to install the system default software that makes us all strangers. And teaching us that the only thing between us and connection is believing we need permission to care.
hoss1474489
Wow. This is so simple it blows my mind. It’s obvious, now that I see it. Suddenly I simultaneously realize how much I make it suck to talk to me and how easily I could change that. Thanks for sharing.
d4mi3n
Can recommend this. I have terrible memory so I make it a point to reach out and text (or even sometimes call, if it's a special occasion!) whenever people come to mind.
It can mean the world to people sometime. If you've ever had anybody making your day or week by just reaching out, remember that you can be that person too!
It's so easy for people to drift apart. Many people in my parent's generation didn't do a great job keeping in touch with folks and end up lonely or isolated. Avoiding that is as simple as taking a moment to let someone know you were thinking of them.
blindriver
I never had this fake sense of shame or embarrassment when it came to contacting people. Some people will keep tabs on when someone last contacted them, and hold it against them. I don't.
Just last month I had lunch with middle school friends I hadn't seen in 40 years. I literally hadn't seen once since Grade 8. I friended them on Facebook years previous but didn't really have anything to chat about, but when I was in the same town as them, I pinged them and said let's go to lunch. It was absolutely amazing, once of those moments that I will remember forever. Not because anything breathtaking happened, but it was just really really nice to connect with people I hadn't seen since the beginning of my life, and meeting them all over again as adults.
I still routinely have lunch with coworkers from 25 years ago. I have friends that I chat with on Whatsapp daily going back almost 50 years. I have no qualms in being the first to reach out, ever.
I have a friend from college that I have been in and out of contact for 30 years, who ghosted me for no reason this past year even after I contacted her a few times. Guess what? I won't hold it against her and I will give her space. I will ping her for her birthday and see if she responds and if not, then I will just leave her alone until she contacts me. But I don't feel shame or anger or embarrassment because I got rejected, that's on her, not me.
stuxnet79
Commenting to say that I truly admire your attitude. You are the person I wish I was to my friends and hope to be some day again. I used to strive for this kind of approach to relationships but around COVID-19 it seems like I didn't have any gas in the tank left.
stroz
COVID emptied a lot of our tanks. Sometimes the fence isn't fear, it's just straight up exhaustion. The tank refills slowly, and you're allowed to be gentle with yourself. Sometimes it just starts with noticing when you think of someone, no pressure to act.
stronglikedan
> Some people will keep tabs on when someone last contacted them, and hold it against them.
I don't worry about this because as soon as they let me know, I just don't reach out any more. Life's too short to waste time on those types.
If they're family, then I just ignore them or mock them for being creepy. Jokingly, of course, because I'm not stuck with them, they're stuck with me!
fnord77
> I never had this fake sense of shame or embarrassment
It's not fake. Just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it isn't real
kelnos
Replace "fake" with "pointless", then. Or if that sounds harsh, "unproductive".
missinglugnut
Let me suggest "unhelpful".
That's my word for when I don't want to spend time judging a thought/concept/emotion but do want to point out it's not taking me where I want to go in life.
blueflow
I don't understand the article. I'm still getting zapped in new ways each year and i have to put effort into asserting my personal boundaries.
btilly
For most of us, certainly including me, a lot of those electric fences are alive and well.
They are powered by thoughts associated with pain. Anything that triggers those thoughts, triggers that pain. We are not even aware of how our thinking has been constrained. We just avoid the possibility of triggering the thought.
A person constrained by such a fence is very obvious from the outside. We see the irrational rationalizations that they can't. Because our thinking isn't constrained by the pain that shapes their thinking. But it takes work to accept the pain of your own painful ideas.
stroz
You're right, we see everyone else's fences perfectly while blind to our own.
Here's what helped me most, when I hit a painful thought, I try to think about it as, "What are you protecting me from?"
Usually it's something that happened once, often years ago. Next time you feel that electric fence, just notice it. Then take one tiny step towards it (Joe Hudson talks about this as emotional fluency). The fence will beep (your emotions). You'll feel the old pain. But nothing actually happens. And slowly, slowly, you realize you're actually free.
nuancebydefault
I recently realized that I had lingering old pains and those were triggered by someone going through a similar experience and I literally felt their pain. It took me a lot of digging in my mind, peeling off layers, to understand even what the root pains are.
Sending a message to someone and potentially not getting any (meaningful) back is something I find very hard to accept, though I know not responding is often not on purpose.
For me, it is not so much about an electric fence, more about a feeling of rejection or abandonment that seems really hard to eradicate.
btilly
The problem that I had with that approach is that the pain of the painful thought caused me to shy away from what was central to it.
Instead I have found that targeted gratitude has enabled me to bear the pain, while I face the pain, understand its cause, and start doing something about it. This isn't fast, it has been a journey. But a very good one.
stroz
Absolutely love the idea of "Targeted gratitude". You're right that sometimes the pain makes us shy away from looking directly at root causes. Gratitude as a way to hold the pain while we work through it is a profound idea. Simultaneously asking what the pain is trying to protect us from and thanking the pain for what it's trying to protect us from and giving yourself some grace for the courage required to do this. Thank you so much for sharing this, it's really helpful!
pferde
And that is exactly how it is in that dog's brain. In his mind, the electric fence is alive and well.
That is the whole point of the article.
protonbob
> The fence isn't there. It never was. It's just the memory of some childhood rejection, some social rule someone made up, some fear that caring more makes you matter less.
Chesterton's Fence would say that maybe there is a reason and you should tread carefully. Sometimes a relationship died because it should have. Maybe you feel uncomfortable messaging someone because they have given nonverbals that they don't like your company.
kelnos
That's true, but absent psychological manipulation or something truly devious and nefarious, a short text message is low risk, and is unlikely to open up a painful can of worms.
And I don't think the point of that statement was that you should be contacting anyone and everyone, just because they entered your mind. It's not saying you should get in touch to say hello to that abusive ex just because you thought about them. But firing off a quick text to someone you found interesting but lost touch with is pretty much always going to be harmless.
ethan_smith
Chesterton's Fence applies to institutional/societal structures with unknown origins, not personal relationships where the history is known to you. The principle encourages understanding before removal, not perpetual inaction when reasons are already clear.
d4mi3n
This can sometimes be the case, but barring something tangibly dangerous or concerning, talking is cheap and communication is hard. If someone really is a problem, I'd rather know and consciously decide to not associate with them than I would risk losing a potential great relationship because I was nervous about something I couldn't quantify.
YMMV. It'd be a learning experience either way.
anal_reactor
Yeah. I went to my high school reunion. It was a nice evening, but ultimately, I remembered why I was an outcast back then. Recently I reached out to a few old friends. I spent an hour talking to one via phone, and at the end I was like... I don't want this. I set up a meeting with another guy and the moment he walked in I knew this was going to be a very long and very boring evening. Yet another dude called me and invited to visit him and god christ I was happy when it was over because I couldn't get him to smile even once.
Dead friendships should stay dead, unless they naturally come back to life because of other circumstances.
cindyllm
[dead]
block_dagger
The article asks when the reader was annoyed by someone checking in and it answers, “never.” Not so for me, I truly dislike people checking in on me, including my family members. It makes me uncomfortable. I’m an introvert, and my condition is my own business. Now and then is okay but not frequently. I also don’t answer calls on my birthday. It’s MY birthday after all, it’s a day for just me.
glitchcrab
Do you not think that maybe those people care about you and would like to know how you are? I appreciate that you have your boundaries, but it doesn't sound like you're considering their point of view. Or maybe you are but it isn't conveyed in post well.
PaulHoule
For horses, the electric fence is a psychological barrier. You understand the shock doesn't do real tissue damage, but they don't. [1] If they value freedom and learn that you can crash through the fence and feel just a moment of pain they will crash through the fence.
[1] I did find out though, that the fence really hurt a lot more when I was standing in a puddle with cracked rubber boots. I imagine it hurts more if you're heavy, well grounded, and standing on four big hooves with metal shoes.
mauvehaus
For bears, the advice we got from Fish and Wildlife was to bait the fence with aluminum foil smeared with bacon grease. That gets the bear to touch it with their sensitive nose. If they brush up against it with their thick fur, they won't notice. A good zap on the nose will teach them.
I can confirm your note about footwear mattering. I'm way too cheap (read: stupid) to buy an electric fence tester, so I just touch the fence. In dry shoes, it's noticeable. The one time I did it in wet sneakers, it definitely got my attention. For what it's worth, we have about the smallest fencer Tractor Supply sells (it just has to go around the chicken coop). I betcha a 50 mile fencer would just about make your hair stand up on end.
voakbasda
My electric fence supposedly covers hundreds of miles and feels like being hit with a baseball bat. It has brought people to tears on multiple occasions. Having gotten hit a few times, I genuinely am surprised that it does not leave a visible scorch mark.
I feel bad for animals that haven’t learned about it, but anything less has proven to be insufficient for certain animals.
potato3732842
It does. That's a standard "party trick". You make people see how little the fence hurts and then you make everyone hold hands and the last person touches the fence and it hurts the people closer to the fence way worse
DonHopkins
Reach out to an old friend while holding onto an electric fence!
minipci1321
Thought it was about electric fence the malloc debug library, and was surprised to see so many comments. Turns out it is not mentioned at all in the comments, so correcting that :)
mcdeltat
> "They haven't reached out, so they must not care."
At some point I think it is a reasonable conclusion that they don't care much if they haven't reached out. The article's point doesn't really hold up when you have many reliable data points of reaching out and experiencing a negative outcome. Sad but there's no rule that things have to work out.
layer8
> Think about it, when was the last time you were annoyed that someone reached out to check in? When did you ever think less of someone for being the one to text you? Never.
Apparently the author doesn’t know a certain kind of obnoxious people. ;)
ChrisMarshallNY
I once had an old High School friend contact me.
At first, I was glad to hear from him.
...then, he started talking...
inglor_cz
I was never annoyed by people checking in for innocent reasons.
I was, though, when they immediately started asking for money or invited me to join some MLM scheme. Fortunately, that happened just three times or so.
davvilla
Loved the write up but it all canceled out when I realized it’s a blog for an app that’s “your social operating system”
stroz
Fair point! The irony isn't lost on me, writing about breaking free from systems while building another one. Sometimes we need training wheels before we can ride free. The goal is shifting the mindset, and ultimately making the systems unnecessary eventually.
ChrisMarshallNY
I suspect the app is a labor of love, and the article was from the heart.
It does get dicey, when what we do is mixed with who we are.
I have an app that is very useful to a lot of folks, but I don't really spend much time, talking about it, because it's frequently met with suspicion. I'm trying to figure out how to work around that.
doright
I can unfortunately think of some fairly recent counterexamples to "why not reach out." They didn't justify keeping imaginary fences up, rather they justified cutting those people out of my life entirely, because they just don't fit into the overly tidy script of "might as well try."
Just as it is important to not deny yourself positive social experiences with people you trust, it is just as important not to hold out too much hope for change and be generous when it is not merited, as the consequences can lead straight back to maladaptive coping patterns.
This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago.
I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I write to everyone as if we are best buddies who just had lunch last week. People I've known since the age of 4, to people I've known for four days.
If I see someone I know at a wedding, I just go and talk to them about whatever we have in common. Normally someone we know.
I really think it's the guarded, tentative, "you don't have to talk to me" that turns people off. Of course people are free to not talk to me, but I don't lead with that. If you lead with that, people feel awkward, like "is he just being polite?". If you just pretend you are best buddies, people play along and they end up quite comfortable quite quickly.