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More honey bees dying, even as antibiotic use halves

JumpCrisscross

Saw a bee lecture recently [1].

Honeybees aren’t native to North America [2]. The native pollinators, such as bumblebees, are outcompeted by honeybee hives [3]. Those honeybees then selectively pollinate certain plants, reducing biodiversity further [4].

Honeybees, however, unlike local pollinators, can be industrially distributed to industrial agriculture. So they get a lobby. Meanwhile, well-meaning folks put a honey beehive in their backyard and inadvertently wipe out the local bumblebee and butterfly populations.

[1] https://uwnps.org/event/6-26-25/

[2] https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/are-honey-bees-native-north-americ...

[3] https://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/em-9524-impact-bee...

[4] https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002...

kulahan

Mason Bees are hilarious bees native to North America that don't fly very well, so they just kinda dive-bomb flowers to get pollen. This is important because that heavy slam (well, heavy for a flower) is enough to distribute pollen into the air. These bees are fat, fuzzy, and winter over by crawling into holes and sealing themselves inside with some mud-spit.

It's VERY easy to create homes for these guys - if you've ever seen someone with a large log that has lots of little holes drilled in it, they were likely prepping a Mason Bee habitat. Ideally, they burrow into hollow, dry grass stems that broke off at some point in the fall.

I try to tell people about this bee because it's so easy to make homes for them. Just make sure to move the home every year, or it becomes too easy for predators to find them.

edit: also worth mentioning this bee is so docile, it usually only stings when it's squeezed or wet, and its sting is very light, and the hook is unbarbed. Better than honey bees in so many ways.

troyvit

I wonder what it would be like to have a giant Mason Bee hotel in a riparian buffer strip alongside a plot. One problem would be as you point out that predators could find them easily. Another might be that pollinating one crop doesn't do enough for a mason bee all season long.

It looks like some folks use them for berries though: https://backyardbeekeeping.iamcountryside.com/plants-pollina...

We have some of those in our wild crazy yard. I gotta build me some homes for them because you're right they are so cute.

catlikesshrimp

I thought you meant "Giant mason bee" which is not native in north america, is an endangered species and whose jaws might not appeal to the uninitiated.

amy_petrik

Just to go off of this, carpenter bees are closely related to mason bees and are another kind of solitary (non-hive bee). I think carpenter bees are the greatest and I can't stop thinking about carpenter bees. They are a bee, which is cool, but also a lone wolf, also cool. In my wooden house I have several carpenter bee nests. My neighbor Mr. Grubb hates all my carpenter bees because he says all the holes they are making in his walls will make his house collapse, but he doesn't see it, he doesn't see carpenter bee magic. 10/10 please consider adopting some carpenter bees!!

frm88

I'm not familiar with American carpenter bees, but I have made it my mission to feed the European ones. They are extremely fond of clary sage and from what I have read online [0] this is true for all Xylocopa on the American continent too, so please consider planting some.

[0] https://www.fountainofplants.com/post/clary-sage-salvia-scla...

Edit: yet another typo I give up!!

tptacek

During the season we had a bunch of mason bee nests inside the hollow metal of our porch furniture. Supposedly, mason bees can sting, but the sting is barely perceptible.

oatmeal1

Here is a video tutorial on hosting Mason Bees - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQhg82f-OPI

You can start out simple, but you might need to be more involved if you want to prevent the spread of parasites since they are more easily spread when all the mason bee larvae are in one place.

morgoths_bane

You have now convinced me to be the biggest supporter of mason bees now, thank you.

kulahan

Welcome to the rabbi-- er, bee hole

mattgrice

I've got a ton of mason bee tubes. They are awesome.

To use a silicon valley analogy, nobody has figured out how to scale out mason bees. Not to the > 200sq miles of pomegranates, pistachios, and almonds owned by the Resnicks. The Resnicks funded some in-house research and apparently considred it a failure.

It's probably possible. Might not even be hard once you know the trick, but it's certainly not a slam-dunk.

giantg2

Supposedly, it only takes 250 mason bees to do the same pollination as 10,000 honeybees. I think there are people working on scaling this. The honey business is secondary to the pollination money, so having pollination done without having to truck around large hives, could be a big deal.

onetimeusename

Not to be confused with mining or carpenter bees that also like logs. My mom's yard has some carpenter bees that live in the ground. They are as big as bumble bees but more black and a male drone hovers around in a certain area above the females and will dive bomb other male carpenter bees. The male bees will follow you around if you go into their area but they never stung anyone.

wonderwonder

I have a line of big orange flowers lining the border of my front lawn. Sometimes ill just sit in the mulch and watch a dozen kinds of bees I’ve never seen before happily moving amongst them. Green bees and all sorts. Never a lot of any species just a wild variety

pamelafox

I love native bees, I've been trying to find ways to incorporate native bee facts into my tech talks. The "Insect Crisis" book was a nice overview of issues like overuse of honeybees, plus others. Highly recommend planting native pollinator-friendly plants in garden if you want to meet adorable, hilarious, beautiful native bees!

My current fav is the Fine Striped Sweat Bee, where the females are 100% turquoise. Dazzling! https://bsky.app/profile/pamelafox.bsky.social/post/3lv3eycl...

ethbr1

To me, one of the most fascinating facts about pollinators in general is their interconnectedness, which spirals off into a myriad of everyday touch points for most people.

One fact a friend shared recently was that magnolia trees pre-date many modern pollinators.

>> At the time of their evolution, many common pollinators we think of today, such as bees, butterflies, and moths had not evolved yet. As a result, magnolias developed flowers for pollination by beetles and flies, which were the primary insect pollinators 100 million years ago. https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/garden-scoop/2018-05-05...

hinkley

If you pay close attention in Seattle, you'll find that bumblebees are particularly fond of making nests in the hollows of the loose boulder retaining walls that are still in fashion in the region. It's hard to catch them because they have much smaller numbers per nest and thus less traffic per minute, but they do.

WalterBright

I let the wildflowers grow in my lawn, and in the summer there's a constant hum from the bees. I enjoy the sound and their industriousness.

My only problem is the invasive plants which are determined to overwhelm everything.

JumpCrisscross

Out of left field, but do you have any sources on developing small riparian environments to promote dragonfly populations?

I recently learned that a popular anti-mosquito trick by painters in my area is to put a fake dragonfly on their cap. Which led me to wonder where the actual buggers have gone.

mortsnort

Convincing hipsters to switch their urban hives to more obscure bees actually seems achievable.

0898

So what you're saying is that honeybees just have good bee-R?

giantg2

"The native pollinators, such as bumblebees, are outcompeted by honeybee hives"

... in urban environments, and it' still debatable. Your #2 source provides additional details.

There are a lot of other dubious claims here that the sources seemed to contradict each other.

Something you didn't bring up is that people raising honeybee can benefit other pollinators due to changes in human behavior such as planting beneficial plants and refraining from pesticide use.

JumpCrisscross

> in urban environments, and it' still debatable

In all environments.

The source argues this competition is fine in urban environments because we’ve already displaced the native pollinators there.

giantg2

Please read your #2 source. That one says competition is fine in rural areas because carrying capacity is still sufficient. This might be different than your #3 source, hence the comment about contradictory sources.

tptacek

People can plant beneficial plants without introducing invasive competitors.

giantg2

They can, but they don't. You missed the point. Awareness through exposure to beekeeping can change human behavior in a beneficial way. If you read some of the previously linked articles, you will see that it is still debateable if the competitors are actually causing any real problems for native bees. If the problems are debatable and on a low scale, then it's possible the benefits are a net positive.

mattgrice

It's true but honey bees are still extremely economically important. And very useful because their hives are large and portable.

The billionaire Resinick pomegranate/pistachoi/almond oligarchs put quite a bit of effort into native bees which seemed quite successful but they shut it down I think about 5 years ago. I can't find the article now. Gen X+ might remember them as owners of the 'Franklin Mint' hawkers of knickknacks you either are or soon will be throwing into a dumpster.

They are BTW also largest renters of honeybee hives in the US.

mrweasel

> And very useful because their hives are large and portable.

I have no proof of this, this is just my theory, but the "portable" might be the issue. I think industrial beekeepers in the US might be part of the problem. Yes you can technically move the bees, but should you? You're moving around disease, you might be overworking and stressing the bees. Meanwhile you have farmers create massive fields with nothing but corn, grass, wheat, whatever, leaving you with essentially green deserts from the pollinators perspectives.

Again just a theory of mine, but the reliance of "portable" bees is what's causing the problem. Other countries have beehives for rent, but they aren't moved constantly. Often they stay in the same location all year and the bees are allowed to follow their natural cycles.

Trucking around hundreds of hives always seems rather stupid.

tptacek

Right, it's interesting from a technical perspective, but it's a story about battery-farmed livestock, not about North American ecology. My guess is they'll figure out how to keep growing more bees. The prices of honey bee queens have been pretty stable for the past 15 years.

mattgrice

I think it is not a great analogy. As Jeremy Bentham wrote, “The question is not: can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But can they suffer?”

I have relatives that do or have raised bees (as a hobby). Can bees suffer? I don't know. I kind of think a bee can experience suffering in a small degree. I'm not going to run the experiments on that because I'm not a sociopath. Also arguably the hive is the basic unit of the honeybee organism, not the bee itself.

I do know for certain hogs can suffer. I'm a farm boy from Iowa. I've been around them from a young age and I hate everything about them. I hate the smell, I hate the way their meat tastes to me like they smell, I hate how if you are small enough and don't take care, they are mean enough to knock you down and eat you.

I'm probably one of the few people on HN who have actually experienced in person what a hog confinement facility looks and smells and sounds like. I wouldn't wish it on my worst hog enemy. It is a vision of hell, illegal to film in Iowa, and in no way comparable to how we treat bee hives.

taeric

I mean, somewhat true, but probably a touch oversold? I don't think people putting in a single beehive are doing much to impact a neighborhood. Probably less than having a house cat. Which, is not nothing, but is not ecosystem changing, either.

I'm reminded of how much we were taught that monocrops were bad things in grade school. And yet, you'd be hard pressed to name a popular food that isn't grown in giant monocrop fields.

JumpCrisscross

> probably a touch oversold? I don't think people putting in a single beehive are doing much to impact a neighborhood

Probably not, especially if they’re in an urban environment. The bees being shipped to farms, on the other hand, are ecologically destructive (as well as economically invaluable).

My takeaway is not that honeybees are evil. It’s that we need more pollinators in more stripes, and that the agricultural industry has successfully confused pollinators in general with honeybees in particular.

lazide

Industrial farming scales. And that scales better (until it breaks) with fewer variables. Aka mono crops.

Similar to many, many other things.

micromacrofoot

The damage is largely already done because the non-native bees are now a feral invasive species that have out competed natives, and the invasive honey bees haven't co-evolved to pollinate native plantlife

tptacek

My understanding is that there are in fact very few feral honey bee colonies in the US ("if you see a honey bee in your yard, chances are someone owns it") and at some points over the last 20 years feral honey bee colonies had essentially been eradicated by the Varroa mite.

mushroomba

Modern beekeeping practices are a kind of factory-farming. Tim Rowe developed a method of beekeeping that takes advantage of evolution to improve the vitality of bees. It is described succinctly in his book, The Rose Hive Method. [1]

I, unfortunately, developed a severe bee-sting allergy, and can no longer put these ideas into practice. I anticipate that commercial beekeeping cannot sustain its current practices.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18279124-the-rose-hive-m...

ct0

a deck for those beek's that are interested https://projectloveforbees.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/...

Rendello

Looking through this, beekeeping is a strange and interesting world that I know so little about. Cool!

highstep

After one season of bee keeping I concluded the same thing. Its horrifying how poorly bees are treated in this industry to control parasites (forced exposure to acidic gas) I sold my hives and will probably never buy honey again, much in the same way I avoid factory farmed meat.

ACCount36

As always: if those ideas are so good, why aren't they used?

If existing practices are somehow radically worse, I would expect the first entity to adopt better practices to obtain a significant advantage - and the competition to copy them eventually.

I'm incredibly skeptical of any "everyone is doing X completely wrong and you should listen to ME and BUY MY BOOK instead".

Tadpole9181

I have no idea how you could actually be confused about this.

- I can sell 100 units of product for $2. I feel good I am ethical and responsible.

- I can sell 300 units of product for $1. Everyone buys from me and I make more money, but I poison the land.

Capitalism does not account for externalities. Because businesses never have to pay the cost of poisoning water supplies or destroying ecosystems until he societal bell tolls - and because "if I don't, they will and I will go out of business" - unsustainable and unethical practices are the norm in late stage capitalism.

I mean, for real? Are you confused why mine operators encouraged taking more material at the expensive of structural integrity? Are you confused why gas barons don't like paying the cost to cap NG wells? Are you confused why big agri uses petrochemical fertilizers to grow subsidized ethanol and HFCS?

skeezyboy

> unsustainable and unethical practices are the norm in late stage capitalism. thats just people. the economic system is about money, "ethics" are a social thing. you can have a utopia with or without capitalism.

ACCount36

Where's the externality here?

Isn't "vitality of bees" that this method claims to improve actually supposed to be desirable to beekeepers themselves?

lazide

Capitalism will happily bake in externalities if anyone makes them.

‘Late stage capitalism’ right now is way less ugly than ‘any stage USSR’, for any sane comparison.

miellaby

This article seems like fantasy fiction: 'We thought antibiotics were to blame, but actually, it's NO2.' (next 5G?) while it's widely recognized for the last ten years that the primary culprit is neonicotinoids: very potent and pervasive chemicals that accumulate in the biotope, killing all insects indiscriminately, contrary to the misleading claims made by the agro-industry.

phtrivier

> it's widely recognized for the last ten years that the primary culprit is neonicotinoids

What would be your best source to back that ?

(I'm not trolling - we've been having a vivid debates about that exact topic for the past few weeks in France, and one common counter-point is that the decrease in bee population is multifactorial, as opposed to having any "primary" culprit. So any source welcome :) )

WillPostForFood

Varroa mites are widely considered a greater cause of bee population decline than neonicotinoids.

20k

And neonicotinoids are directly thought to increase susceptibility to Varroa mites

skeezyboy

well whos giving them the neonicotinoids? just get them to stop

neuroelectron

So why the distraction?

imzadi

This seems like it would be the obvious outcome? If bee keepers have been keeping bees healthy by giving them antibiotics, then stopping the antibiotics would lead to them being less healthy? Especially since the previous antibiotic use would have killed off the healthy bacteria.

seunosewa

Yes, of course. The pretence of ignorance in the article is hilarious.

alionski

I wish the industry and governments spent an equal amount on battling the decline of wild bees. When they say "save the bees", it's not honeybees they mean. Honeybees are cattle.

tptacek

North American native bees tend not to form giant eusocial colonies and are less vulnerable to pathogens; their biggest threat (after habitat loss, of course) may in fact be honey bees.

padjo

Yeah, it really gets me irritated when people seem to think that honey bee colonies are something to be celebrated from an ecological perspective.

mattgrice

I'm not saying anyone is doing 'enough' but neonicotinoid bans in EU are perhaps the most effective and 'costly' thing done so far. In Not that costs borne by poisoners

riffraff

The EU neonicotinoid ban seems potentially very useful but do we have data that it actually was effective?

frm88

I mean, even if it wasn't effective for the bees - it certainly helped human health with regards to breast cancer and neurological damage in children [0]. If you scroll to the bottom of the article, you'll find links to the studies that are source to this claim.

[0] https://www.pan-europe.info/blog/acetamiprid-brain-toxic-neo...

Edit: typo

ceedan

I read something recently that colony collapse disorder was due to viruses transmitted by varroa mites and/or pesticides

https://www.ars.usda.gov/news-events/news/research-news/2025...

throwaway422432

Yes, and the mites (Varroa Destructor) found in the collapsed colonies were resistant to miticides.

While widespread antibiotic use is bad for bees it's nothing compared to what the viruses transmitted by the mites do to them.

ceedan

Agreed. I mentioned this as a reason why antibiotics are not a solution. Antibiotics do not treat viruses.

endo_bunker

Seems like they may not have realized that the fact that antibiotic use was associated with hive death could be because antibiotics are likely given primarily to unhealthy hives.

horacemorace

I know I’m not the only one alarmed by the fact that we used to have to clean bug splats off our windshields weekly during the summer and now don’t. The downstream and parallel effects must be massive.

Hilift

I saw lightning bugs and dragon flies for the first time in a long time this year. Our county banned pesticides for residential and recreation areas.

sarchertech

I left a lot of the leaves on my lawn this year and only thinned out the spots where they were thick enough to kill the grass.

Huge increase in lightning bugs this summer.

FuriouslyAdrift

I reseeded my lawn with clover and saw a huge increase in all kinds of lightening bugs, bees, etc. Alos rabbits which surprised me (I'm in the middle of a dense urban area... there is a park nearby, though)

phendrenad2

This one is weird to me because lots of people claim that they don't get as many windshield bug splats as they used to, and I haven't noticed a difference. I kind of wonder if there's some form of mass misremembering a la the "mandela effect where people have splatted (heh) one or two memorable instances of a bug-covered windshield across their entire childhood's memory range.

Yes, I know there are some "studies" about this, but I find their sampling size and methods basically inconsequential.

packetlost

I'd be willing to bet this has more to do with more aerodynamic designs of cars than less bugs in general.

poncho_romero

I believe the same decrease is visible when driving older (less aerodynamic) cars, but I don’t have any studies on hand

Xss3

...or just ask a bus driver, van driver, euro truck driver, etc.

They've all seen the decline too.

null

[deleted]

pamelafox

Yep, that observation is discussed frequently in the book "Insect Crisis". Highly recommend!

JLCarveth

I still get a large amount of bugs on the front of my car, makes me wish I had applied PPF.

deadbabe

This is actually due to evolution. Insect populations have evolved generation by generation such that the ones who avoid flying over roadways survive more often, and in time we end up with less bugs getting killed. Because the lifecycle of insects is very short, this can happen easily over the course of decades, enough to witness in one human lifetime.

tired-turtle

While this claim is plausible, it’s (admittedly pleasing) conjecture until you provide evidence.

deadbabe

I saw it myself, we did high speed off-roading and smashed a ton of bugs. But on the highway? Little to no bugs.

Bjartr

That's a neat possibility. Do you have any sources to share that go into more detail?

chrisgd

Seems hard to believe but I want to believe

cluckindan

Aren’t modern windshield coatings awesome?

Hammershaft

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_phenomenon

The reduction in windshield bug splats has more to do with the decline in insect populations.

EDIT: I originally said 75% decline over 30 years. Those are the results for studies in parts of Germany. We don't have solid data on global loss in insect populations.

hinkley

There's a degree to which aerodynamics play a role in the number of splats but the numbers are also definitely way down.

Waterluvian

Anecdotally I also feel like I’ve notice a decline in windshield splat. But wouldn’t we notice severe bird population declines as well?

mc32

It’s also possible some insects have learned to avoid certain corridors at certain altitude to avoid getting splattered.

Animals do adapt behavior to avoid new threats. Now, admittedly it’s just conjecture but I would not rule it out nor am I saying it would account for all windshield spat decline.

animitronix

[flagged]

giantg2

Bacterial issues aren't that much of a concern for beekeepers. It can be used to treat European Foulbrood, but the only other issue is American Fouldbrood and that isn't treatable.

There are some interesting things being done in the biome research. Even stuff like bacteria related to mosquito dunks.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01476...

westurner

From "Scientists identify culprit behind biggest-ever U.S. honey bee die-off" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44434497 :

> "Viruses and vectors tied to honey bee colony losses" (2025) https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.05.28.656706v1....

westurner

ScholarlyArticle: "Impacts of antibiotic use, air pollution and climate on managed honeybees in Canada" (2025) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-025-01603-y :

> Abstract: [...] Notably, this decrease was inversely associated with rising overwintering mortality rates, suggesting that withdrawal of antibiotics in the absence of effective alternatives may negatively impact colony health. Furthermore, multivariate analysis accounting for environmental confounders (based on 119,244 data points collected from 234 unique locations across Canada) identified nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a common air pollutant from diesel exhaust, as a strong predictor of mortality. This finding warrants urgent attention given that NO2 can degrade floral odours, rendering them undetectable to honeybees during foraging flights.

thebees

I always thought it was fascinating that Africanized honey bees ("killer bees") are the dominant honey bee in many regions of Central and South America for honey production.

SoftTalker

They are in Texas and some other southern states too, and spreading. As I understand it they are prolific honey producers but extremely aggressive at protecting their hives

skeezyboy

what is it with racist stereotypes and the south

animitronix

Yeah, cuz it's a pesticide problem not an antibiotic problem...