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What even is 'adult' content? [NSFW]

forinti

Some Brazilian tribes had fertility festivals with dances meant to arouse the males, because simple nudity wasn't enough to get them interested in sex.

So maybe making nudity less common or accessible only makes it more valuable as a sexual thing.

WhyNotHugo

Indeed.

There's a strong correlation between "women force to cover themselves" and "women's bodies being an object of obsessive desire".

Countries where women MUST cover their bodies as much as possible have more of an incell culture. In countries where it's normal for women sunbathe topless, breasts aren't as sexualised of fetishised.

pmlnr

It's a much bigger question why, such a completely natural and normal thing, like nudity, in the supposed to be educated - at least in basic biology - 2025, be made and exclusive thing.

The intro of the 1986 Once upon a time... Life animation series, that's the best human biology educational program that exists to this very day, starts with scenes many would classify as nudity - but it's also essential to the topic and the education it displays.

zakki

Well, many things are natural. Still we have many rules for it. I.e. naturally stronger animals kill weaker ones. Yet we don't want this happen in the human community.

thih9

Naturally stronger animals very often protect weaker ones too, especially within the same species.

I know you’re trying to point out a logical fallacy; but I don’t think it is a good reason to ignore the grandparent commenter’s point.

herval

Or incest. Or washing your hands...

Barrin92

>It's a much bigger question why, such a completely natural and normal thing, like nudity, [...] be made and exclusive thing.

As Nietzsche said, the time has come when we have to pay for having been Christians for two thousand years. That's the simple answer, nudity and sexuality (also entirely natural and normal), have been deemed sinful, you're supposed to avert your eyes from it, and so on. It's so deeply ingrained in Western culture even secularized people still haven't shaken it.

It varies though, being German with half of my family having lived in the GDR, it is funny to see in particular Americans when you talk about nude beaches or mixed saunas and the general Freikörperkultur (lit: free body culture) that was so common and still has carried over.

hellojesus

> it is funny to see in particular Americans when you talk about nude beaches or mixed saunas and the general Freikörperkultur (lit: free body culture) that was so common and still has carried over

How is general nudity of adult men considered by those participants? I always assumed that my nakedness would be perceived as a display of mateability, and I am concerned that my penis size relative to other men would reduce my attractiveness to women.

Note: I am not sure how I compare to others in the general population, as I live the typical American lifestyle. Also, I think Germans are statistically one of the greater endowed populations, so maybe this isn't as much an issue for them.

tremon

you're supposed to avert your eyes from it

Only if it leads you to sin, right? According to the original, if you can look at a naked body without immediately humping it, you're free to keep looking.

aredox

It is even more amazing when you consider that in the USA, it was normal (for boys) to bath in the nude, indoor but sometimes with spectators, and even to have to show their genitals to the teacher or pool attendant.

This has been completely memory-holed despite the fact many people alive today should remember it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_swimming_in_US_indoor_poo...

https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/baring-it-all-why-bo...

https://www.npr.org/2006/08/01/5597441/naked-in-high-school-...

tjs8rj

Every civilized culture on earth has norms against public nudity. Objectively there appears to be something more biologically successful about cultures where nudity is reserved for private spaces than those who treat it otherwise

krapp

>It's a much bigger question why, such a completely natural and normal thing, like nudity, in the supposed to be educated - at least in basic biology - 2025, be made and exclusive thing.

Western culture and its morals around sex, gender and nudity are founded on the patriarchal taboos of the Abrahamic religions, whereby human nudity in general, and female nudity in particular (because women are the source of original sin,) is to be considered shameful.

That and we're currently in the midst of a right-wing political reactionary shift against the progressive norms of prior generations (and a moral panic about "groomers" and "pedophiles") which makes censorship of this type far easier.

tjs8rj

So China and Japan are abrahamic? India is abrahamic? Every civilization on earth has norms against public nudity. Seems to be something more fundamental than blaming abrahamic religions

ryandv

> shift against the progressive norms of prior generations (and a moral panic about "groomers" and "pedophiles")

Not altogether an unreasonable concern, considering that the International Lesbian and Gay Association at the United Nations was literally allied to NAMBLA and other pro-pedophilia groups, for 15 years [0].

It's only when the Americans threatened to take away the money that something was done about it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILGA_consultative_status_contr...

ciupicri

I guess this is what inspired the movie "Footloose" (1984) [1].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footloose

danbruc

Why is this discussion always about nudity and sexuality? Would it not be much better if children see people having fun fucking each other than seeing people murder each other in countless ways? Why is it more acceptable to show Wile E. Coyote trying to murder Road Runner by dropping anvils onto him than showing Bugs Bunny and Lola Bunny fuck each other? Ignoring for the moment that children probably find the former much more funny than the later.

dcow

Graphic violence generally is considered adult content. Let’s not pretend slapstick comedy is the same as graphic violence. Furthermore, you/kids definitely see cartoons where one character is enamored with another (heart eyes jumping out of sockets) and pursues that character for the entirety of the episode.

jimmydddd

Let's take Star Wars. Not "graphic," but a lot of killing going on. Some would argue that making the killing less "graphic" actually desensitizes children to the violence.

danbruc

I am not even talking about really graphic violence, just your run of the mill crime story, shooting your husband to get the life insurance.

andrewinardeer

Violence is normalised due to gun culture in America. Hollywood plays a part in this too. School shootings which is basically a daily event and a unique bug/feature of American life is a symptom of this.

Sex and procreation which is arguably the complete opposite to murder is ostrasized because of it.

dcow

Well that’s not considered adult in any jurisdiction I know of. Maybe PG-13 at most.

drewcoo

"Graphic violence" meant "violence in images" in my lifetime.

Because so many people "learn" words by guessing their meaning from context, it now means what Anthony Burgess called "ultraviolence" in A Clockwork Orange.

Cartoons have already had several re-thinking of what's appropriate as norms have changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censored_Eleven

fullshark

I’m sure you’ve seen sexual content you wouldn’t want your children to see. A lot of pornography is also for lonely horny men and gives children false and even unhealthy impressions of human sexual experience.

danbruc

There is of course sexual content that is inappropriate for children but I did not advocate for letting children see any sexual content out there instead of an anvil onto the head of a cartoon character. But I think it would be better if the husband comes home and has sex with his wife instead of shooting her in the back.

9x39

>but I did not advocate for letting children see any sexual content out there

No, you did.

>Would it not be much better if children see people having fun fucking each other

lnenad

And killing/hitting/maiming another human being is a healthy impression of the human experience compared to it?

fullshark

There’s violence I don’t want my kids to see either, a “gotcha” involving cartoon violence isn’t approaching the topic in good faith imo. Not really worth discussing further.

It’s more nuanced than sex = good, violence = bad.

9x39

[flagged]

zakki

I believe if we took that path (children see people having fun fucking each other), we will see more 9yo pregnant girls going to school. Are you ready as a parent?

actsasbuffoon

Pornography has never been easier to access and teen birth rates have been falling for decades.

Once puberty hormones kick in, teenagers are going to start figuring out that there’s something going on. We’re far better off educating them about the risks involved rather than letting them blindly experiment.

Pornography is probably the worst way to accomplish this goal, of course. Comprehensive sexual health education is vastly preferred. But pretending sex doesn’t exist is how you end up with pregnant kids.

danbruc

Is there any evidence for that? Why would it not be the opposite, why would a less tabooed treatment of sexuality not lead to better informed children with a lower risk of accidentally getting pregnant?

const_cast

Why would this be the case? I understand that intuitively it makes sense, but does it actually? What evidence do we have that girls are just like... predisposed to be "sluts"?

In cultures where sex is more taboo, they have bigger problems with teen pregnancy and early marriage. In the US, as access to porn has increased teen pregnancy has plummeted.

Making sex shameful doesn't just magically make people not do it. Tell kids "be abstinent, mmkay" doesnt lower teen pregnancy - it increases it.

Havoc

It’s the checking part that’s the bigger issue to me. Speaks to some weapons grade incompetence at highest levels of government

Sending passport scans to random sleezy websites that are likely not even under British jurisdiction is beyond insane

dcow

That’s the whole point of digital id. You won’t be sending a passport scan you’ll be sending a verifiable blob of data that says you’re over 18. Is it incompetent to ask for ID to purchase alcohol? Because that’s all this is, but more privacy respecting…

Palmik

As far as I know, there isn't a serious implementation of this that is ready for production and that has enough adoption in the affected regions (e.g. UK).

Chrome and Safari are working on browser APIs that seem reasonable, but will only be available around the end of this year. The various region specific identity providers (like GOV.UK One Login) will also need to integrate with those (possibly through Google/Apple Wallet or their own app).

That means one has to use shady 3p age verification services (like Persona) which do who-knows-what with customer data and cost on the order of $1 per verification.

nemomarx

Do they have that implementation? When I looked into it I thought you had to send your passport scan to a vendor of some kind?

dcow

Yes. That “send your passport in” type of id verification is complete BS and everyone knows that. That’s why there is so much work going into modern cryptographic digital identity standards. You should be able to say “I have it on good authority that I’m over 18” and the other party simply computes the hash of that statement and checks that it matches one of the hashed claims in your digital credential.

https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-oauth-selective-d...

https://csrc.nist.gov/csrc/media/presentations/2024/wpec2024...

RansomStark

I think that is the point... Like most things UK government related, this is about what is best for us, and what is best for us, is no porn, and no privacy.

Handing over details to sleazy websites is never going to happen. Everyone is going to use a VPN. That's the point. Next year, maybe the year after the government will concede that age verification didn't work and more needs to be done. Then they come for your VPN.

The BBC, always the mouthpiece of the UK government is already laying the groundwork [0].

I know how tinfoil hat this sounds, but at this point, its not a conspiracy, its just how the government that created and sold nudge units [1] operates. It's decades of thinking "they won't do that" then watching them do it.

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1k81lj8nvpo

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_Insights_Team

edit: spelling

worldofmatthew

I am planning a blog post soon on this topic and all the ways a "VPN Block" can be bypassed and how even trying could cause internet bills to skyrocket.

Lockyy

Adult content is whatever is deemed to be objectionable and abhorrent to the dominant social group within a culture and that which needs to be censored and hidden from public view. Beyond a desire to "protect the children" from sex, violence, and drugs. It is a desire to hide and suppress dissent around major social issues. It is a desire to label representation of trans liberation and queer lives as adult, obscene. And it is a desire to label realistic representations of history such as Maus and others as unsuitable for children.

This effort is because once labeled adult it is broadly socially acceptable to do anything and everything necessary to hide a concept from public life.

A specific recent example is Itch.io's recent removal of all content labeled adult, stemming from coordinated pressure by Collective Shout. The block has led to the hiding of some content labeled as lgbt, despite not containing adult content or being labeled that way.

salawat

>And it is a desire to label realistic representations of history such as Maus

Dare I ask, wtf is Maus representation of history??

Lockyy

Maus is a depiction of Art Spiegelman's father's experience as a Holocaust survivor.

salawat

Ahhhh. A Graphical Night (Elie Weisel) then. That's considered obscene? It was required reading for me growing up. Understanding the plumbable depths of human cruelty was considered a worthy expenditure of the education system's time... Might be different now though.

nemomarx

It was an autobiographical comic about the Holocaust? How's that not a representation of history?

salawat

Never said it wasn't one. Just never heard of it. Wasn't aware it was considered obscene either. Will look into.

willidiots

Meanwhile, violence remains perfectly acceptable.

JackFr

If people are gonna use “natural” as a justification, nothing more natural than violence.

1970-01-01

I'm not trying to knock the author, but I would have used a much more durable example for experiencing nude content:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nude_sculptures

amiga386

Puritans chiseled the penises off Greek statues, indeed the lead image of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship is a fig leaf over the penis of Michelangelo's David.

It wouldn't be appropriate to use a form of nudity we now find "acceptable" (statues and paintings), when those media were attacked in their time by the same type of prudes who attack modern media (JPEGs of nude women on websites)

andsoitis

and specifically the most beautiful sculpture of all time, Michelangelo's David - https://www.accademia.org/explore-museum/artworks/michelange...

h1fra

Hard question, and Instagram is getting abused by this. They allowed breastfeeding as a non-porn category, now you have hundreds of OnlyFans account faking breastfeeding. Effectively ruining the progress for everybody.

kingkawn

It is good to challenge these arbitrary norms through what amounts to a wild combo of civil disobedience and grifting

AlecSchueler

I'm a new parent who recently stumbled into the world of Instagram breastfeeding pornography. I just wanted to say that the content I saw seemed to be almost universally published by men rather than women pushing their own OnlyFans content.

I know you probably didn't intend it that way but I often see criticism of OnlyFans specifically made when I wouldn't have seen it around traditionally male operated pornography publishing, and sometimes there's a feeling of subtle misogyny creeping in.

Lockyy

There's more than a subtle misogyny to the anti-OF messaging people throw around, not to label the grandparent comment as falling into this issue.

I have seen comments along the lines of "Onlyfans spotted, opinion dismissed," numerous times online under posts/videos completely unrelated to a content creators OF business. The idea that a person is a sex worker and therefore a slut (in a derogatory rather than reclaimed sense) and therefore they and their opinions are worthless, is the unstated logic of this sentence.

The misogyny drips off of the concept of an Onlyfans lessening someone.

AlecSchueler

That's exactly what I meant, I'm not sure how my meaning became reversed.

Palmik

Really? I always saw that as a similar reaction to what you may see here on HN when people dismiss an article because it's written by a party trying to (subtly) push their (possibly semi-related) product. In other words, it's a defense (perhaps unjustified in many cases) against being manipulated by the poster.

9x39

Would you celebrate the choice of entering sex work like, say, that of someone entering medicine or law?

“You’d make such a good porn star!”, we could say encouragingly to a new grad considering between OF and Stanford.

No, we wouldn’t, because despite a weird and deliberate normalizing effort in some corners of the Internet, it’s an intrinsically degrading field run by pimps physical or digital now, and an existential history of abuse and degradation.

homeonthemtn

I just want less porn and violence exposure on the Internet. I dunno why this turns into a mouth frothing event. That's a pretty reasonable ask in any other context other than the Internet.

calcifer

https://archive.ph/53Eay (Warning: NSFW)

anthk

Thanks, but it needs JavaScript.

uncircle

“Porn is fine, but Javascript, no thank you” :)

Cthulhu_

Clearly payment processors and lawmakers are focusing on the wrong problems here.

evertedsphere

no javascript please, we're british

ta1243

I don't see porn on that site, nor anything not safe for work

danielvaughn

What’s funny is that the image doesn’t load for me, and I’m in FL where we do have laws about online adult content.

Chazprime

Try reloading the page, it didn’t work for me either the first time.

dcow

I’m sorry… all these comments about societies banning nudity and graphic violence are really skirting the point. In the context of modern age regulation, at a social level, nobody is arguing people at large should not have access to violent and sexual content. This isn’t about religion oppressing women’s sexual freedom. The argument is that children should not have unguided access to adult content. On top of that most parents I know allow children to experience violent and sexual content with supervision. The goal is not to censor society, it’s to draw some reasonable and realistic lines in the sand so parents can introduce sensitive content to children in a way that is empathetic with their child’s context and maturity level.

Now I’m sure even that is arguable, but the conversation should be around that and not superficially related tangents.

nemomarx

The recent payment processor stuff is more "no one should be able to have this at all" than age gating, so I don't think there's a lot of faith this week that people still stick to only hiding it from children.

macintux

> In the context of modern age regulation, at a social level, nobody is arguing people at large should not have access to violent and sexual content.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/project-2025-por...

> Just five pages into the foreword by the president of the far-right Heritage Foundation think tank, the proposal stakes out an uncompromising position that porn should be banned, porn producers and distributors should be sent to prison, and tech companies that circulate it should be shut down.

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