Games Look Bad: HDR and Tone Mapping (2017)
197 comments
·July 25, 2025pflenker
astrange
Real life has a lot of sensations that games don't. A rainy/foggy day might look boring, but it feels nice to be out in (ideally). Well, that and computer audio is/can be about as good as humans can perceive, but displays are nowhere near it.
So both of these mean you have to jack up the sensation so people can feel something.
chihuahua
I totally agree. The example pictures in the article look fine.
I don't know what the author wants, but perhaps it's some kind of industry insider view similar to where "true artists' make movies that are so dark you can't see anything, and the dialog is quiet mumbling and the sound effects are ear-shattering. Perhaps there's an equivalent to that in games.
astrange
I can see why people wouldn't like them - they're all oversaturated and most of them go for the cheesy "everything is teal and orange" or "everything is piss yellow" gradings. There's a quote I heard in a photography tutorial once that goes something like "once you've moved all the sliders to what you want, move them back 50%", and games basically don't that.
But the biggest problem with the screenshots is they literally aren't HDR. So how can we judge their HDR?
kllrnohj
> I don't know what the author wants
If only they had written an article about what they wanted...
> but perhaps it's some kind of industry insider view similar to where "true artists' make movies that are so dark you can't see anything
Nope, it's not that.
CupricTea
>I don’t want games to look realistic. A rainy day outside looks gray and drab, there is nothing wrong with rainy days in games not looking like the real thing, but awesome and full of contrasts.
In photography and cinematography contrast and color curves are near ubiquitously modified artistically to evoke a certain feeling. So even without 3D renderings added colors are adjusted for aesthetic over raw realism.
wkjagt
From what I understood is that these are supposedly bad because they look like video games instead of photographs. Not sure what the problem with that is though. I'm fine with video games looking like video games.
diob
Reminds me of how movies / shows these days have gotten so dark, when in the past even dark scenes were often lit in such a way as to show details.
dahart
I truly don’t understand the author’s opinions about contrast here. The RE7 image is the only one here that looks ‘realistic’, and at a glance could be mistaken for a photograph, and he says it’s got way too much contrast.
No other image here comes anywhere even close, definitely not Zelda nor GTA5.
Personally I think the whole problem with the first 5 images is that they don’t have enough contrast, and they have too much detail. The color handling isn’t the only reason they don’t look realistic, but making sure every single pixel’s nicely exposed and that nothing gets too dark or too bright is allowing to let all the CG fakeness show through. One of the reasons the RE7 image looks better is you can’t clearly see every single thing in the image.
If you take photographs outside and the sun is in the shot, you will absolutely get some blown out white and some foreground blacks, and that’s realism. The CG here is trying too hard to squeeze all the color into the visible range. To my eyes, it’s too flat and too low contrast, not too high contrast.
alt227
> definitely not Zelda nor GTA5.
The zelda screenshot he uses as an example of how good things look without HDR, looks terrible to me. It is all washed out with brightness and bloom, and all the shadows in the landscape that in reality would almolst be black, are very light grey.
XCSme
I agree, it is washed out, and I was trying to find what exactly in the image the author really liked, but all I saw was a decolorated postcard.
astrange
> The RE7 image is the only one here that looks ‘realistic’, and at a glance could be mistaken for a photograph, and he says it’s got way too much contrast.
It looks like a cheap film camera or a home video screenshot. So it gives off a feeling of nostalgia to a sufficiently old person, but this is also the kind of photo you'd reject as a pro, because it's totally overexposed.
PaulHoule
For me games being too dark and not being able to see anything is a pet peeve. I can see the point in a horror game, but I will set the gamma or turn up the brightness if it makes the game hard to play.
dahart
Oh I agree. The art director needs to be exposing the important gameplay elements to be visible. That doesn’t mean they should avoid blacks for everything though, and that’s what all images except the RE7 image are doing.
mmis1000
Out of my mind, the destiny 2 is the biggest offender of this category. If I can't see shit at all, how does the feeling artist trying to convince even matter? I will just turn the brightness in graphic card setting all the way up. Because the cap in in game setting is insanely low.
Plus isn't not even a horror game. Come on, you are a shooter game. How does a shooter game that you can't see anything even make sense?
null
kevingadd
One problem with photorealism is a lot of players are on bad displays, or in bad viewing environments. Games often take this into account in their visual direction so that they will be more legible in these different environments. It used to be even worse when designing a game for say the Gameboy Advance or original Nintendo DS where you knew the screen wasn't backlit or wasn't particularly bright so your images needed to be bright and colorful. Even now, a Nintendo Switch game might be played on the bus.
For big budget games the solution for this is typically to have brightness calibration when the game first boots up, but the game itself still needs to be designed adaptively so that it's not Too Dark or Too Bright at critical points, otherwise the playability of the title is jeopardized. This runs counter to a goal of photorealism.
PaulHoule
I made thermal prints (receipt printer) of concept art from Pokémon Sun and Moon for the Nintendo 3DS and Switch, like this one
https://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=1821741
and found they did really well because the art was designed to look good on bad screens and poor viewing conditions. I think of it in terms of Ansel Adam's Zone theory in that the ideal image is (1) legible if you quantize it to 11 tones of grey (looks OK printed in the newspaper), but (2) has meaningful detail in most or all of those zones.
I'm kinda disappointed that the Nintendo 3DS version didn't use the stereo effects but they would have had to decided if her hair forms a sheet or a cone.
epolanski
It's not about being realistic but good looking.
carlosjobim
You're arguing that game engines should imitate photographic cameras, but they should imitate our eyes, which will never blow out whites outside in the sun.
dahart
Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun. Doubly so when looking at the sun or even reflections immediately after being in the dark for a while, and when looking at bright that is very near dark in your visual field.
I’m not necessarily arguing games should imitate cameras, I really only think over-compressing the dynamic range is bad, and I don’t understand why the author is arguing for that.
mystraline
> Our eyes absolutely blow out whites in the sun.
Do you have a new technique to decode eye-brain perception in terms of how we perceive visual signals? Do you have a paper indicating how you make this claim for everyone?
carlosjobim
It's a cloudy day here and I'm within my rather dimly lit office. If I look out the window, it is no problem to see clouds in all their details, and I don't loose any details within the darker environment in the room. A camera will either blow out the entire sky outside the window to capture the details in the room - or make the room entirely black to capture the details of the sky through the window.
I mean, most people reading our comment thread here have their smart phone by their side and can instantly verify that eyes do not blow out whites or compress blacks like a camera. The dynamic range of our eyes is vastly superior to cameras. So aiming to imitate cameras is a mistake by game developers.
Of course, staring straight into the sun or a very bright light or reflection is a different matter.
markus_zhang
One big issue I never understood is why do we need photorealism in games at all. They seem to benefit card manufacturers and graphic programmers, but other than that I feel it has nothing to do — and in fact may have negative impact on game quality.
tmtvl
Photorealism is a bad idea if your movement engine isn't good enough to handle the character walking around on uneven terrain. For racing games or flight simulators or such it is less of a problem, but seeing a regular person being absolutely flummoxed by a knee-high wall is massively immersion breaking.
It's something I really noticed when playing Disaster Report 4, where the people look amazingly realistic but some restrictions are clearly just 'developers didn't make this bit walkable'.
Swizec
> For racing games or flight simulators or such it is less of a problem,
Cars are also easier to make photorealistic. Less uncanny valley effect, lots of flat shiny surfaces.
What absolutely breaks immersion for me in most AAA car games is the absolute lack of crash, scratch, and dirt mechanics. Cars racing around the track for 2 hours don’t look like showroom pieces! Make ‘em dirty darn it. And when I crash into a wall …
I’m really excited to try Wreckfest 2 when I get around to it. Arcade-ish driving, not super photorealistic, they put it all on realistic soft body collision physics instead.
tmtvl
I seem to recall hearing that car manufacturers only allow their vehicles to be licensed for use in games if they won't really get visually damaged. Kinda funny to see cars just bounce off each other in Gran Turismo. But rally games tend to be better at that (I may have lost a door or two (or a few dozen, but who's counting) in WRC).
ahartmetz
You might like BeamNG.drive. It has soft-body physics simulation (also for driving dynamics, so it's not arcadey) and decent graphics. It's more like a sandbox with half-done "actual game" mods AFAIU, but happens to be quite popular and very highly rated anyway. I'm on the fence about buying it myself.
anthk
Collin Mc Rae Rally 2 and 2005 did it fine for its era. What CMR2 did was incredible, the damages were very real.
ToucanLoucan
I had a great time recently on my first trip to a racetrack, and the most surprising thing to me was how all the cars were utterly beat to shit. Not like in a bad way, but in like... a sports gear way? They were all working (well, mostly, one guy had a real bad time on his second lap and I'm pretty sure his engine was DONE) but the panels were quite battered, and a number had full on body damage I'm assuming from track contact.
And granted this was an amateur race day, just weekenders having a good time, but it makes sense when you think about it: if the body panels aren't like falling off and are just a bit beat up... why replace them? Especially on some of these cars (late model Corvettes and Mustangs) they don't come cheap at all, and they'll require refinishing and you have to do your livery over again too.
Like a hockey player doesn't buy a new helmet every time they get hit, they/the team would be broke before the season was out.
markus_zhang
I think it's like porn. Not sure about you guys, but for me soft-core always looks better than HD hardcore. Soft-core encourages imagination and conveniently covers any body part that is a bit far from perfect.
And that's why I always think ladies who wear just enough clothes are way more sexy than nude ladies.
Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone.
tmtvl
I get it, I prefer seeing two bears be tender and affectionate rather than just 'bend over and spell run'.
glitchc
This is true in Wukong too, which is otherwise a very good-looking game. There are various points where rocks and scaffolds look just as climbable as those in the game area, yet the game engine places an invisible wall in your way. It breaks immersion instantly.
Tyr42
I think it's more that they didn't have the display language to mark those inaccessible parts of the world as "boring", and prevent the player from wanting the walk into that invisible wall in the first place. Or placing the invisible wall 1m infront of a real wall for NO REASON.
While also expecting you to go around searching for hidden goodies nd secret paths.
I swear, the invisible walls are the only thing pushing it to a 9/10 from a 10/10 for me.
glimshe
We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion. Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them. Photorealism is essential for this feeling - at least for me .
The most amazing gaming experience I've ever had was walking around the city at night in Cyberpunk 2077. For the first time in my life, I felt I was actually in the future. Zelda can't pull that off with me, despite being a great game from other perspectives.
treyd
I find this an interesting argument. I wonder if it's a generational thing.
If we define immersion as "your vision focuses on what's inside the screen and you ignore the world around the screen, and you mostly ignore that your control of the player character is through a keyboard and mouse", then I've experienced immersion with every first person game ever, including Minecraft. I never considered that some people might need photorealism for that at all. There was another commenter that mentioned being unable to walk over a short wall due to character controller limitations as being immersion-breaking. I agree this is annoying but the qualia of it is more like a physical confusion rather than being something that actually breaks my experience of the game.
I'm also thinking this might be related to why I find VR to be, while very cool, not some revolutionary new technology that will fundamentally change the world.
theshackleford
> VR to be, while very cool, not some revolutionary new technology
VR despite its limitations is the one thing I’ve ever achieved “presence” in, as in feeling if for a brief moment, I was actually there.
Elite dangerous, OLED Unit, HOTAS. For a brief moment in time my brain believed it was in the cockpit of a spaceship.
markus_zhang
I’d argue that immersion has little to do with graphics, even for FPS. Actually I had more immersion in some text adventure games than in some AAA games — and not out of nostalgia because I never played the said text adventure games before.
I’d agree that certain degree of graphics helps with immersion, but photorealistic graphics only offers cheap immersion which turns off the immersion centre in the brain — Ok this is just my babble so 100% guess.
TurkTurkleton
Agreed. Immersion in a game world, at least for me, is less about how accurately it visually reflects reality and more about how detailed the overall world feels -- whether the designers have crafted worlds that feel like they live and breathe without you, that you could imagine inhabiting as someone other than the protagonist. For instance, I can imagine what it would be like to live in Cyberpunk 2077's Night City, whether I was a merc like V or just one of the nobodies trying to get by that you pass on the street; I can imagine living in Dishonored's Dunwall (or the sequel's Karnaca) in the chaos and uncertainty of their plagues; I can put myself in the shoes of one of the faceless, downtrodden members of the proletariat of Coalition-occupied Revachol in Disco Elysium; a lot of AAA games, on the other hand, feel like theme park rides--well-crafted experiences that are enjoyable but don't stick with you and discourage you from thinking too deeply about them because they don't withstand much scrutiny. But Cyberpunk 2077 is evidence that they don't have to be that way, and Dishonored and Disco Elysium are equally evidence that you don't need a half-billion-dollar budget and photorealistic graphics to create immersive worlds.
(edited to clarify that I'm not laboring under the misapprehension that Cyberpunk 2077 isn't a AAA game)
dahart
I recall a paper from GDC many years back that studied the perception of immersion and they measured and ranked maybe a dozen different factors. Graphics and visuals were surprisingly low on the list. The number one thing was the player’s sense of identity and clear understanding of their goals. Players tended to correlate realism with high immersion too.
genewitch
I bought cyberpunk when it released, i may have even pre-ordered, i don't remember. I played about 20 minutes after the title drop, you know the one. It was buggy, and didn't really look that good to me, on my samsung 4k monitor.
I then played it again, on the same monitor, last year, and i was pleased with the gameplay, but again, i didn't find anything that remarkable about the overall graphics. the fidelity was great, especially at distance, due to 4k.
I'm 50 hours deep in literally as i type this (about to launch the game), and this time, this time it is completely different. I have an LG 2k HDR screen with "Smart HDR" and i finally - finally - get it. Your eyes have to adjust just like in real life, to go from dark indoors to bright outdoors. you can see tail-lights and headlights in the mountains of NPCs driving around. lasers sweeping you are menacing.
Even fallout 4, which is the first game i played in 4k 10 years ago, looks easily 10 times better in HDR. And i only have the "vanilla+" mod set, 5GB of mods, not the 105GB modset.
I coined the phrase 4 or 5 years ago, that HDR stood for: Hot Damn, Reds! and really, reds are still my least favorite part, they burn to deeply, but from watching several movies on an HDR 4k TV and being real unimpressed, to just these two games, my entire viewpoint has drastically changed.
I didn't know you could put arbitrary people into photo mode in CP2077, and also pose them and move them around, so i was just entering photo mode as best i could and lighting and fiddling with the curves; however, these all took over 4 seconds to "render" to the final image, which i found interesting: https://imgur.com/a/DTesuhF
ehnto
You're not alone, Cyberpunk's blend of near-future with realism whilst maintaining a clear art style that is not total realism is very immersive. I have spent countless hours wandering around Night City, not even playing the main gameplay.
XorNot
CP2077 was the game I drove most carefully in when not on a mission, just coz it felt right that V wouldn't be hooning around his home turf. The immersion was incredible.
ascagnel_
There's something about the image quality of Cyberpunk that looks off to me, and I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe the hair rendering? Shadowing?
It's clearly going for photo realism, but it somehow looks worse to me than older, lower-fidelity games.
genewitch
DLSS really messes with the realism, however for actual gameplay it's less annoying to me than i thought it would be from such games as diablo IV and others in that cohort. If you want maximum quality, don't let an AI draw what the developers (artists) intended, just draw what the developers intended. i replied to a sibling comment with 4 photo mode screenshots, and you can see that there's a lot of variation in environment lighting, and all of the ambient light is pre-arranged by the design team and developers. In CP2077 a lot of quests are "go to <location> at dusk/dawn/night/noon, or between x&y time, because they want the scene to be cinematic, and it shows. Harsh fluorescent lighting on scenes with a doctor, muted, hazy interactions with a shady character or a scene with emotional turmoil, long shadows and lots of reds at the end of a story arc.
It really feels like they put so much work into how everything looks in the primary and secondary stories.
i can agree though that just "jobbing" it looks more like a run-of-the-mill shooter, though.
andybak
> We don't need photorealism in games, but it does help with immersion.
This is a blanket statement I would disagree with.
> Many people, like me, feel like they are inside the game world, rather than playing a game with a TV/monitor in front of them
I can't disagree with a statement about personal preference.
So which is it?
Nicook
Out of curiosity do you not get immersed in books?
glimshe
I do, but not like cyberpunk. I like to both read and watch movies, but I feel a lot more immersed with images than I do with words. It's not a binary rating (immersed vs not immersed), it's a gradient that makes things resonate more strongly with photorealism.
This is one reason, I believe, why some people can't stand animated cartoons. I like them but I know many people who won't even consider watching animation.
dostick
You can get immersed in anything. With games or VR realism, it’s like extra depth of immersion when your brain switch to think in same way as you think in real world rather than adapting to physics or terrain of fake world.
rendaw
I think, like polygon count, resolution, FPS, etc, realism is very easy to objectively assess and compare even with no artistic background, which makes it a target both for gamers (who want to explain why they like a game, or debate which game is better) and studios who want something they can point to.
IMO it leads to really stilted experiences, like where now you have some photo realistic person with their foot hovering slightly in space, or all that but you still see leaves clipping through eachother, or the unanny valley of a super realistic human whose eyes have a robotic lock on your face, etc.
Physical interaction with game worlds (wasd and a single pivot, or maybe a joystick and a couple buttons) hasn't increased in depth in 20 years which only emphasizes the disjointedness.
ehnto
I totally agree with your last paragraph except to add: there has actually been some great advances in interaction, but people vote with their playtime, and I think the reality is that the "median gamer" is totally content with WASD + mouse/the typical controller thumbstick movement. In the same way that so many are content that many game mechanics boil down to combat and health bars.
I am personally not content with that and I explore all I can, and am trying to make games that skirt the trends a little bit.
But that stark contrast between visual fidelity but a lack of interactivity has been a pet peeve of mine for a while. You can even do so much more with just mouse and keyboard interactions, but I think it's overshadowed by the much lower risk visual fidelity goals.
pradn
A large section of the gaming public sees photo-realistic games as serious, and prefers them for high-budget games. It's a rat race for devs though - its just incredibly expensive to create high quality models, textures, maps.
I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077, and while the graphics are great, it's clear they could do more in the visual realm. It doesn't use current gen hardware to the maximum, in every way, because they also targeted last-gen consoles. I'm thinking in particular of the PS5s incredibly fast IO engine with specialized decompression hardware. In a game like Rachet and Clank: A Rift Apart, that hardware is used to jump you through multiple worlds incredibly quickly, loading a miraculous amount of assets. In Cyberpunk, you still have to wait around in elevators, which seem like diegetic loading screens.
And also the general clunkiness of the animations, the way there's only like two or three body shapes that everyone conforms to - these things would go farther in creating a living/breathing world, in the visual realm.
In other realms, the way you can't talk to everyone or go into every building is a bit of a bummer.
ferguess_k
I think chasing photorealism also hurts the modding community, which hurts the players. No ordinary modding community could push out photorealistic contents in a realistic span of time. I think that's why we are seeing less and less mods nowadays comparing to the late 90s and early 2000s.
For FPS, HL2/Doom3 is probably the last generation that enjoys a huge modding community. Anything above it pushes ordinary modders away. I believe it is still quite possible to make mods for say UE4, but it just took such a long time that the projects never got finished.
In certain way, I so much wish the graphics froze by the year 2005.
charcircuit
HL2/Doom3 have built in mod support, so I don't think it's fair to compare it to games that don't have mod support.
XCSme
Let's see how GTA VI will change this and the industry.
I personally like Cyberpunk's 2077 style, it looks great maxed out with HDR. Yes, the models aren't the best, but the overall look/vibe is spectacular at times.
kllrnohj
> In Cyberpunk, you still have to wait around in elevators, which seem like diegetic loading screens.
Cyberpunk has vanishingly few elevators. While it may be a loading hide in some spots, it's certainly not indicative of the game which otherwise has ~zero loading screens as you free roam the city including going in & out of highly detailed buildings and environments.
> I've been playing Cyberpunk 2077, and while the graphics are great, it's clear they could do more in the visual realm. It doesn't use current gen hardware to the maximum
I'm not sure how you can reach this conclusion to be honest. Cyberpunk 2077 continues to be the poster child of cutting edge effects - there's a reason Nvidia is constantly using it for every new rendering tech they come out with.
senko
This, in a nutshell, is why Nintendo is doing so well.
Their hardware is underpowered, games look like cheap cartoons, but the effort spent into gameplay more than compensates.
pjerem
I don't agree here.
Nintendo games don't look like cheap cartoons at all. They are absolutely not photorealistic but they do put a lot of work on the aesthetics/art and it's most of the time relly impressive once you take the hardware limitations into account.
Mario 64 ran on the same console that was known for its 3D blur.
Mario Galaxy 1&2 (which are still totally modern in terms of aesthetics) ran on what was basically an overclocked gamecube.
Mario Kart 8 which is still more beautiful than a lot of modern games ran on the Switch, which is itself based on a 2015 mid-range smartphone hardware.
ascagnel_
I think it's more that Nintendo's choice of hardware (and its relative lack of horsepower) force them into more stylized visuals because it means photo-realism is basically off the table to start with. We the audience tend not to care, because Nintendo has capable artists who can create something aesthetically pleasing outside of "realistic" graphics.
dartharva
There are tens (if not hundreds) of indie and B-games that offer the same experience as most current Nintendo titles. Nintendo is doing well more because of nostalgia - it's the parents buying those consoles for their kids because they have very fond memories with Nintendo from their own childhoods.
senko
I don't suffer from that particular nostalgia, not having had a Nintendo console (C64/Amiga diehard here), but I bought Wii and Switch, and a couple of first-party games for each.
I considered, and passed on, the other consoles.
Nintendo is playing a different game than other console/game makers (excuse the pun), IMHO.
theshackleford
I would disagree. And I know many adults in the PC gaming space like myself who would disagree.
I like my indie games, but not many are putting out what Nintendo is.
I mean it’s all subjective though.
Tade0
This. To me one of the reasons why Coffee Stain Studios is such a successful publisher is that its games typically don't push for visual realism for the sake of it (hardly possible anyway when they feature dwarves, alien species and the like).
ryukoposting
My take is that video game devs learn to aspire to cinema, since they're both making "entertainment art that exists on a screen" and cinema is more widely accepted as art among the intelligentsia (not that I agree).
windward
Some games are sold just so the end user can enjoy exercising their new GPU and monitor. Crysis and Control come to mind.
Arainach
>Control
Did we play the same game? Some of the best lore-building and environmental theming around, paired with some cool mechanics?
Sure, the combat got repetitive but this was hardly something to "just sell GPUs"
someuser2345
That's not the game I played.
The lore was annoying to listen to; whenever I wanted to listen to an audio log, I had to stop playing the game and watch the exact same video of a man smoking and being mysterious.
The cool game mechanics were basically just the gravity gun from Half Life 2, which came out over 20 years ago.
It did have some cool environmental set pieces, but overall I just found the game too pretentious for something that was basically a rip off of the SCP wiki.
the__alchemist
I was a bit confused by this aspect of control. It was lauded as an example of a top-tier graphics. I liked the game, but its graphics felt mid to me. Maybe due to the grey indoor environments?
windward
Nevertheless, it was commonly used for showing off (cloudy, particle-y) raytracing.
refactor_master
This is [...] a series examining techniques used in game graphics and how those techniques fail to deliver a visually appealing end result
All I see is opinions though. And the internet is full of them. You just have to Google "why does this game look so ...". At least if the author had compared the search stats of "good/bad/beautiful/washed out" it would've carried some weight.
The GTA 5 screenshot is a terrible example. It looks like a cheap, dead, video game environment, reminding me how far we've come.
phoronixrly
I think the author's list of "ugly" games is missing Witcher III, Hellblade, God of War (2018), Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate...
And we need some examples of good, cinematic, artful tone mapping, like any scene of a Hollywood movie set in Mexico...
HelloUsername
> tone mapping, like any scene of a Hollywood movie set in Mexico
That's not tone mapping, but color grading
ranguna
I'm not sure you were being ironic, I find the witcher 3 and elden ring beautiful
PaulHoule
I think Elden Ring is a little ugly but still a world I want to experience.
tmtvl
In my experience Elden Ring looks better when you turn the graphics quality down. Baldur's Gate isn't particularly ugly for a '98 game.
And I agree that it would be nice to have some positive examples. I think there were a bunch of SNES games which did it well, but that may just be nostalgia.
Nicook
given the rest of the games listed I assume he means baldurs gate 3. Many younger people out themselves by just calling it baldurs gate.
lII1lIlI11ll
> Baldur's Gate isn't particularly ugly for a '98 game.
I remember it looked beautiful. Especially comparing to early 3D games of that era.
uncircle
I found this video to visualise what tone mapping is trying to achieve, and why "photorealism" is hard to achieve in computer graphics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AT7H4GGrA
And I indirectly taught me how to use the exposure feature in my iPhone camera (when you tap a point in the picture). It's so that you choose the "middle gray" point of the picture for the tone mapping process, using your eyes which have a much greater dynamic range than a CCD sensor. TIL.
amarshall
> the exposure feature in my iPhone camera…choose the "middle gray" point of the picture for the tone mapping process
No, it uses that to set the physical exposure via the shutter speed and ISO (iPhones have a fixed aperture, so that cannot be changed). It literally says this in the video you linked. This is not tone mapping. Tone mapping in a way may also happen afterwards to convert from the wider dynamic range of the sensor if the output format has a more limited dynamic range.
akomtu
I've heard a good point that our eyes have, in fact, a boring 1:100 range of brightness. Eyes can rapidly adjust, but the real game changer is our ability to create an image in our video memory, which has an unlimited brightness range. Eyes give us maybe a 2d uint8 framebuffer, but our mind creates and updates a float32 3d buffer. This is why this experience cannot be reproduced on a screen.
hnuser123456
If our eyes can only see 100:1, why is OLED taking off? LCD has been claiming 1000:1 for decades
perching_aix
Because of fast & per-pixel level light control. Though this is true even if we completely ignore whether human eyes actually manifest a 100:1 auto-adapting dynamic range window.
__alexs
In my case it's because the motion clarity of OLED is excellent.
os2warpman
Why does everything (in big-budget video games) look shiny and wet?
If it is an attempt at realism, reality is not constantly shiny and wet.
If it a subjective artistic choice, it is objectively wrong and ugly.
Is there an expectation that everything look shiny and wet to make it seem more "dynamic"?
Is it an artists' meme, like the Wilhelm Scream in cinematic sound design?
mfro
Overuse of reflective surfaces are the same kind of fad we saw with bloom in the mid 2000s and early 2010s. Now that SSR everywhere is technicaly feasible gamedevs want to use them everywhere. I think this started 5-10 years ago and RTX has renewed the meme, unfortunately.
HatchedLake721
Isn’t Unreal Engine guilty with this? That’s how I often recognize it’s an Unreal Engine game.
schmidtleonard
Specular highlights are cheap (frame time and artist time) and beautiful when done right, so everyone tries to do them and they get overcooked.
There is a secondary problem in big budget games where modeling work gets farmed out leading to selection for "what looks good in the preview pic." In the preview pic, the asset artist gets to choose background/scene/lighting, and it's an easy trick to choose them to make the specular highlights pop. The person doing integration buys the asset, drops it in wildly different background/scene/lighting, and now the specular highlights are overcooked because the final scene wasn't chosen for the specific purpose of leveraging specular highlights.
tl;dr artists ship the org chart too
pradn
Recently, some of it seems to be just to highlight raytracing hardware. Cyberpunk uses a lot of metal reflective surfaces to give a futuristic/tech vibe. But that's one sort of futurism. There'll be plenty of use of natural stone, wood, and tile far far into the future.
0cf8612b2e1e
I thought this was going to be the subject of the article. For years now, everything looks weirdly shiny.
perching_aix
The common wisdom is that it's more difficult to make sunny and dry environments look pretty than it is overcast and wet ones. I tend to agree with this based on the end results I've seen over the many years.
e3bc54b2
That's what I used to think too.. but Spec Ops: The Line is entirely based in desert, even has a shot of sarin horror and while 'pretty' isn't the word I'd use, it is stunning.
scyzoryk_xyz
It is amusing now that you point it out. There are always trends that come and go in these large scale industrial artforms. As others point out in this case likely a response to technical advancements and desire to emphasize those. Another example that would come to mind here is is the orangey-sunlit ears that seemed to show up everywhere to show off subsurface scattering.
Thinking back - films also are always doing some new exciting thing all at once. That wild colored lighting aesthetic of the past decade comes to mind. That's a result of refined color correction software and awesome low-cost LED lights. Or drone shots. So many drone shots.
It's usually a group-think phenomenon where everyone was previously unable to do something and now they can and everyone wants to try it. And then there are successes and management points at those and yells 'we want that, do that!', and distribution follows, and if becomes mandatory. Until everyone is rolling their eyes and excited about another new thing.
It's a silly phenomenon when you think about it - any true artist-director would likely push back on that with a coherent vision.
rasz
Michael Mann starting with Thief (1981).
"Mann sprayed down the city’s nocturnal streets with tens of thousands of gallons of water, so that they took on an unreal, painterly glow." - New York Times
paulluuk
I feel like this is very much a personal preference thing. They even called out Horizon Zero Dawn for looking very bad, and Zelda for looking very good.. while in my opinion the exact opposite is true.
uncircle
I do see the point of the author: HZD goes for a "realistic", high-fidelity 3D fantasy world, yet the lighting makes no sense in physical terms. The contrast and brightness shown in the picture are all over the place, and can only be an artifact of visualising a world through a computer screen which has a very limited dynamic range - it is immersion-breaking. The Resident Evil 7 picture below looks much better. The video I linked in another comment explains why: in the physical world, the stronger the light, the more washed-out the colour will become. HZD is a saturated, high-contrast mess with too much compression in the low light, because of a bad colour mapper in their pipeline.
One can claim HZD's look is an "artistic choice" and that's inarguable, but the author believes it's simply not enough attention to the tone mapping process, which is a very complicated topic that's not usually taken seriously in game dev compared to film production.
abhpro
The author is more pointing out that these games don't look realistic. Look at the foreground of the HZD shot - why is it almost black in daylight?
dahauns
To be fair - if I remember the location correctly - that screenshot is somewhat misleading because it's camera position is from the inside of a large ruin, with the ceiling and right wall of the "cave entrance" being just outside the frame.
phoronixrly
Zelda looks realistic to them?
whizzter
No, the author posits that Zelda explicitly goes for artistry and ignores any pretense of realism (that then falls flat on it's face when using an over-contrasting tone-map like in the HZD screenshot).
mfro
I think with enough exposure to the overdone contrast ratios, you start to get tired of it. It sacrifices a lot of clarity. I agree it does look good in some cases, for example I enjoy the look of Battlefield 1 a lot, but when playing it I often noticed I had issues seeing detail in darker areas.
int0x29
I suspect contrast in a lot of the games he's skewering is high because they are shootery type games where players need too see things, understand them, and react to them quickly
Also I don't necessarily see a need to make everything look like physical film.
jillesvangurp
One game that actually puts a lot of effort into this is X-plane. They use physics based rendering and with recent updates they have done quite a bit of work on this (clouds, atmosphere, natural looking colors and shadows, HDR, etc.
There's a stark contrast here with MS Flight Simulator which looks great but maybe a bit too pretty. It's certainly very pleasing to look at but not necessarily realistic.
One thing with flying is that visibility isn't necessarily that good and a big part of using flight simulators professionally is actually learning to fly when the visibility is absolutely terrible. What's the relevance of scenery if visibility is at the legal minimums? You see the ground shortly before you land, a few feet in front of you.
And even under better conditions, things are hazy and flat (both in color and depth). A crisp, high contrast, saturated view is pretty but not what a pilot deals with. A real problem for pilots is actually spotting where the airport is. Which is surprisingly hard even when the weather is nice and sunny.
An interesting HDR challenge with cockpits is that the light level inside and outside are miles apart. When flying in the real world, your eyes compensate for this when you focus on the instruments or look outside. But technically any screenshot that features a bright outside and clearly legible instruments at the same time is not very realistic but also kind of necessary. You need to do some HDR trickery to make that work. Poor readability of instruments is something X-plane addressed in one of their recent updates. It was technically correct but not that readable.
X-plane rendering has made some big improvements with all this during the v12 release over the last three years.
SirMaster
This seems pretty irrelevant now. This article is from 2017 which is before we had proper real HDR support in Windows 10 and much better HDR support now in Windows 11.
And before we had OLED gaming monitors which can actually now display good HDR at 1000+ nits.
This was definitely during a transitional phase with mostly fake HDR techniques that needed tone-mapping. Now we have real HDR that doesn't need tone-mapping, or only a small amount of tone-mapping above the display peak nits point.
theshackleford
> And before we had OLED gaming monitors which can actually now display good HDR at 1000+ nits.
It’s worth pointing out these monitors for the most part can not sustain it or achieve it at anything other than the smallest possible window sizes, such as the 1-3% window sizes at best.
> Now we have real HDR that doesn't need tone-mapping, or only a small amount of tone-mapping above the display peak nits point.
For the reasons outlined above (and other) tone mapping is still heavily required.
It’s worth noting that OLED TVs do a significantly better job at displaying high nits in both percentage of the display and in sustaining it. It’s my hope the monitors eventually catch up because I waited a long time for it to become monitor sized.
SirMaster
> It’s worth pointing out these monitors for the most part can not sustain it or achieve it at anything other than the smallest possible window sizes, such as the 1-3% window sizes at best.
Sure, but the parts of the image that are anywhere near 1000 nits are usually quite small and are things like muzzle flashes or light fixtures or centers of explosions, or magic effects etc.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/rog-swift-oled-p...
This is OLED gaming monitor that came out 2 years ago measures 904 nits on a 10% sustained white window.
theshackleford
> Sure, but the parts of the image that are anywhere near 1000 nits are usually quite small and are things like muzzle flashes or light fixtures or centers of explosions, or magic effects etc.
Sure, but plenty of things are bright enough in combination at varying window sizes that combined the panels have to drop down significantly. So you might get 1000 nits for a muzzle flash but ~200nits at best for a “bright sunny day.”
The problem is way too many people (I’m not suggesting you) don’t realise this and just think they are “getting 1000nits!”
>https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/rog-swift-oled-p...
Yes, I own this display and it’s one of the better ones for brightness which is why I grabbed it.
However even on the latest firmware, It has a bunch of issues including with colours in HDR unfortunately. It also has incredibly aggressive ABL. Still a great display, but with more limitations compared to the TVs than I’d like still. They’ll get there though hopefully in few more generations.
craxmerax
When HDR is implemented properly, and you have a proper HDR display, it's such a transformative experience! Most games, however, don't have good HDR implementations. And for whatever reason HDR on Windows is still awful in 2025.
rag-hav
Any examples of good HDR in games?
WithinReason
I liked the talos principle 2 inside the pyramid after reducing the gamma a bit on a WOLED display
simoncion
Here's my list from a couple of months ago, along with some related commentary: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43986463>
can16358p
HDR is GREAT! Everyone trying to implement HDR + tone mapping excessively just for the sake of it and exaggerating it to show-off (just like those oversaturated Samsung phone screens) is not.
nwallin
Yeah. There've been a laundry list of innovations over the years that people will invent, show how it improves how a scene looks, and then for the next few years everyone turns it up to 11 and it looks like shit. Bloom, SSAO, lens flare, film grain, vignetting, DoF.
After a while people turn it back down to like a 4 and it improves things.
rthrfrd
Yes, like everything: Nylon might be my favourite example of us never being able to use innovation in moderation.
nottorp
So were 3d movies until they stopped filming in 3d and started adding pointless effects in postprocessing :)
I skipped the text and looked at the images and was unable to understand if they were supposed to be bad or good examples. I liked them. Then k read through the text and learned that they are supposed to be bad examples.
But why though? I suspect that either I am not good at this kind of thing, or this is a purist thing, like „don’t put pineapples on pizza because they don’t do that in Italy“.
I don’t want games to look realistic. A rainy day outside looks gray and drab, there is nothing wrong with rainy days in games not looking like the real thing, but awesome and full of contrasts.