Ask HN: Any resources for finding non-smart appliances?
99 comments
·July 7, 2025bombcar
Commercial suppliers.
No motel microwave is “smart”. No commercial kitchen is going to have the line cooks installing “apps”.
BUT BE AWARE that commercial items have different requirements and tradeoffs! You need to research them before buying. Some may matter to you, some may be a safety issue, some may be technically or actually illegal to run at home.
For example, commercial ovens may look similar to your home oven, but have zero insulation anywhere and NOT be designed to be installed next to anything except solid metal.
But commercial and used commercial can be great. You can still get zero smarts devices, like microwaves with literally no computers in them, just a timer dial.
You can also import many from the USA, but you’d have to check power requirements very carefully. Commercial equipment is often available in 240v in the USA but it may not be self-switching.
But be aware that commercial dishwashers work - but even if you don’t get a massive Hobart machine that they’re designed for speed, not energy efficiency or silent operation.
arp242
Most appliances like washing machines are "smart-optional" at most, and can just be used as a regular appliance if you don't want all the "smart" stuff. There are also many without any "smart" features. It's different for TVs and such, but for household appliances all of this is not really a big deal.
mathgeek
Every feature that is added, even if you don't use them, is another piece of tech that can break and potentially be non-serviceable. I've several times now had to repair or replace major appliances in the first 3-5 years of use because of logic boards and such that were unrelated to the core functionality of the appliances.
Granted, not everyone wants or cares to minimize waste when it comes to objects of convenience, but plenty of folks want the option... and yes, I do realize I sound like "your father who bought fancy cars with manual windows because it's one less thing that can break." :) My own father was that kind of person.
Y_Y
I know you're intending to be helpful with your response, but I think it can be a bit condescending to respond to someone who says they need a non-smart appliance by telling them a smart one will do.
We're probably all familiar with the XY problem, but I think we must also beware the XY problem-problem, where a posed problem is inappropriately identified as an XY problem and a good question is not given a good answer. (See also: much of Stack Overflow) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem
rincebrain
My problem with "smart optional" devices is that even in that case, the "smart" parts can have knock-on effects.
For example, the AC unit I bought, resets any settings changes from the front panel if you power cycle it, unless you configure them in the web interface.
My new microwave with a "child safety" lock has a button combination you can use to disable the lock, but it forgets that setting on losing power, so you have to perpetually keep the sequence needed around if you ever have brownouts or blackouts.
And, of course, if you just ignore it, it might be waiting for someone to come by with the right bluetooth or 802.11 network or s/t and use any "optional features" however they like...
MrGilbert
Most. As of 2025, this does not apply to the dishwasher from Bosch as discussed in this blog article: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/i-wont-connect-my-dis...
There is functionality hidden in the app, so that the manufacturer can save a dime and a half on some buttons. Unfortunately, this line has already been crossed.
The functionality that is hidden: Rinse, Machine Care (self-cleaning), HalfLoad, Eco and Delay start.
bryanlarsen
Jeff bought that dishwasher based on its Consumer Reports ratings. They must have taken his criticism into account, because it is now far from the top rated dishwasher and includes a disclosure about requiring an app.
I trust Consumer Reports and would never buy an appliance without consulting them, but it doesn't surprise me that they're a little conservative and wouldn't realize they need to call this stuff out initially.
mrweasel
I believe Jeff pointed out that he got the 2025 model, while the tested model was a 2024 model. So they may have retestet with the new model and it now scores worse.
The interesting bit would be to have the reaction from Bosch. They "updated" their design and the review score went down.
ReptileMan
The problem is not that you have more functionality in the app. It's that all the evil people that have designed (not implemented, the drones that write the code rarely have the right to express opinion or provide common sense in big corporate) this idiocy require you to have online account with them, for reasons unknown. This functionality should be local. Bluetooth works fine.
thfuran
That's certainly worse, but needing to use your phone to run the dishwasher is still bullshit.
bryanlarsen
Yes, it's not like they come with a cell phone modem like smart cars do. You can just choose to not download the app and not give it the wifi password.
physicsguy
Part of the issue I found is that it's their lowest quality + shortest warranty models that are 'dumb'.
I (UK) bought this (https://ao.com/product/wnc25410gb-bosch-series-8-idos-washer...) Bosch one a few months ago and it is perfectly usable without enabling any of the smart capabilities though. I haven't connected mine to wi-fi at all.
beAbU
Ireland is small, you basically have Curry's or DID to choose from as a retail vendor. Just go on their websites and find a cheap model without smarts. The more expensive models don't wash any cleaner I reckon and it's often them who come with smarts baked in.
Freak_NL
Is this so hard in your locale? When I browse the top three recommended washing machines on a popular Dutch appliances seller, only the third (Samsung) actually has some app functionality. The other two (Bosch, AEG) are just normal washing machines.
(The division there is currently 64 with app, 43 without. The models without appear to score higher in the reviews.)
Cthulhu_
Interesting, I was sure they would all have some kind of wifi these days. I think my parents have the Bosch, it's pretty good. I just find it weird that they have two input methods, the turning wheel and tip touch buttons that don't really respond well.
Mind you, I have 'regular' buttons that don't respond well either.
andyferris
Agree with the Bosch touch buttons - the wheel works well but you need to use both input methods...
hhh
Coolblue?
Cthulhu_
Coolblue has good service and installers and stuff, but I find they have a (probably intentionally) limited range of stuff they sell. But that's fine, I really have no interest in e.g. the bottom of the price range for appliances.
showsover
Tweakers.net probably has more specialized filters I'd imagine.
Freak_NL
Coolblue in this case, and they do have this specific filter:
https://www.coolblue.nl/wasmachines/filter/bediening-via-app...
2-to-15
Do you want brand new? Reason I ask is there's typically resale appliance stores that have good quality non smart devices.
wgx
Try searching Reddit, I just found some lists. I’ve given up and instead just don’t allow things on my network. My “smart” TV begs me to see the network but I just use a Roku instead. I fear it’s come to this where we have to circumvent our own devices desperate need for connectivity.
Cthulhu_
For the moment my big ass LG oled TV still works fine without agreeing to it selling my soul and listening in on my living room, but if it ever does cause issues I'll look into jailbreaking it and hooking up an external media player.
alok-g
Hope there is no programmed issue built in. I have had devices stop working after some time saying it's been more than X years since I last updated the software and it then refuses to run. :-(
theturtle
30 or more years ago I was at a law firm that had some specialized software to pump out the paperwork for residential mortgages. Every so often it would throw an error and refuse to run, which made it really popular with the paralegals who were trying to churn out a dozen mortgages a day. I called the software company. "Oh, that's not a real error, we just prefer that customers check in every so often." I called them many foul names and found out how to disable that shit. Another company sold us perverted Xerox 635 daisywheel printers that were EPROM'd to only work with their particular shitty app-specific typewheels. I had a buddy with an EEPROM burner, and we had several unperverted 635s from which we could draw clean copies. We burned new chips for every printer in the building (65 of them). And back then there wasn't shit the vendor could do. Overnight we repurposed the printers for use with regular PCs and our cost for new METAL xerox typewheels was far less.
mystraline
I'd be filing a fraud lawsuit where the company is misrepresenting their goods, and logic-bombing them to disable after a condition is made.
And I would ask the maximum allowed with fraud, by law.
18 U.S. Code § 1030.
alok-g
>> 18 U.S. Code § 1030
Could you pls. point me to which paras are the most relevant to the said logic-based disabling?
flavaz
Many TVs have a “store mode” which dumbs them down, worth giving it a look as it may stop the nagging
theturtle
Our stove insists it can't implement several advertised features unless we let it at our wifi and "enable" the features. Fukdat, a stove does not need to be a network citizen, it needs to bake cookies. For me.
Then again, maybe I could hack it to host a Mastodon instance or run Doom.
Doom might be dangerous, though.
Y_Y
I'm now imagining a Doom mod where instead of fighting the hordes of Hell you get to do battle with the gunk that's baked onto the bottom of the oven.
nottorp
Smart also comes with bugs!
I have a washing machine without wifi fortunately. It has this steam function where you can set it to steam your clothing regularly at the end of the wash cycle, in case you forget to take them out in time.
Half the time if i turn that on it takes the button press to stop but does not unlock the door :)
I have to run an extra dry cycle manually to get at my laundry. Which kind of defeats the point of the 'fire and forget' option.
dsalzman
I bought a speed queen which is more geared to commercial usage, but you can buy without coin slots. Has two knobs and one button!
RonSkufca
Second that. They are a bit expensive. My DR5 was around $1200 USD, but yes it is super minimalistic.
entuno
The BuyItForLife subreddit is a good source for products that are high quality, repairable, and built to last.
It's not exclusively aimed at non-smart stuff, but there tends to be a pretty strong overlap between the two - so it might be worth taking a look at.
Cthulhu_
BIFL often says the same things though, when it comes to appliances they'll say Speed Queen (US) or Miele (EU).
CommenterPerson
"Smart" and "Intelligent" could have multiple meanings here. Sometimes a washer that uses a dirt sensor is labeled smart. In US I've found anything above the lowest end has wifi capability, unfortunately. My $100 printer had some suspicious notes about sending data to google (!!!). I never connect any of these gadgets to wifi.
My washing machine broke down. I need a replacement. I must avoid getting a "smart" one though. Are there any lists of products that arent "smart" so I can know which models are viable options to buy? Or other resources? I'm based in Ireland.