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Peasant Railgun

Peasant Railgun

130 comments

·July 3, 2025

disillusionist

I personally adore the Peasant Railgun and other such silly tropes generated by player creativity! Lateral problem solving can be one of the most fun parts of the DnD experience. However, these shenanigans often rely on overly convoluted or twisted ways of interpreting the rules that often don't pass muster of RAW (Rules As Written) and certainly not RAI (Rules As Intended) -- despite vociferous arguments by motivated players. Any DM who carefully scrutinizes these claims can usually find the seams where the joke unravels. The DnD authors also support DMs here when they say that DnD rules should not be interpreted as purely from a simulationist standpoint (whether physics, economy, or other) but exist to help the DM orchestrate and arbitrate combat and interactions.

In the case of the Peasant Railgun, here are a few threads that I would pull on: * The rules do not say that passed items retain their velocity when passed from creature to creature. The object would have the same velocity on the final "pass" as it did on the first one. * Throwing or firing a projectile does not count as it "falling". If an archer fires an arrow 100ft, the arrow does not gain 100ft of "falling damage".

Of course, if a DM does want to encourage and enable zany shenanigans then all the power to them!

fenomas

The underlying issue with TFA is that it's a player describing a thing they want to attempt - and then also describing whether the attempt succeeds, and what the precise result is.

And that's... not D&D? I mean players could certainly attempt to have several people pass an object quickly with the Ready action, under RAW. But what happens next isn't "the rod speeds up to such and such a speed", it's "the DM decides whether the peasants need to roll a dexterity check" and so forth.

And to me as a DM, that's why I find articles like TFA annoying. Not because it's confused about fall damage (though it is!), but because it's confused about who decides whether to apply fall damage!

aspenmayer

> And that's... not D&D?

Some people are there because their life is not their own, and they want to live freely in the game; some people are there because their life is an exercise in control, and they want to play with the win conditions.

Every table and game is unique. It’s a microcosm of society that is simultaneously everything to anyone and yet no one thing to everyone. It’s a way to directly engage with the Other via metaphor and indirection.

This is D&D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zng5kRle4FA

pavel_lishin

It's actually a well-known (at least in my blog circles) problem with D&D. Everyone house-rules things to such an extent that the only thing that most tables have in common is how leveling up works, and which spells they use.

null

[deleted]

fishtoaster

My take has always been:

1. D&D mechanics, like all games, are a simplification of the real world using primitives like "firing a bow" and "passing an item" and "downing a potion"

2. The real world is fractaly deep and uses primitives like "plank length" and "quark spin"

3. Therefore there will always be places where the real world and the simplification don't line up. Finding those gaps might be a fun meme, but it's not an exploit. We play with the simplification's primitives, not the real-world physics'.

ekidd

My approach is that there is a tension between three things:

1. The "combat simulator" built into the rules. I run this according to the spirit of the rules, so that players' investments in classes and feats pays off as expected. Otherwise my players feel cheated.

2. The simulation of the world. This is important because it makes the world feel real and believable (and because as DM, I get many of my plot ideas by "simulating" consequences).

3. The story. The campaign should ideally tell a story. Sometimes this means involving what I think of as "the Rule of Cool (But It's Only Cool the First Time)."

The "peasant railgun", unfortunately, fails all three tests. It isn't really part of the intended combat rules. It doesn't make sense when simulating the world. And it probably doesn't fit into the campaign's narrative because it's too weird.

On the other hand, if a player proposes something really cool that fits into the logic of the world, and that also fits into the story, then I'll look for ways to make it happen.

Let's say the PCs find 200 peasant archers, and set them up on a high hill, and have them all rain down arrows on a single target. That seems like it ought to work, plus it's a great story about bringing the villagers together to save the day. So in this case, I'll happily handwave a bunch of rules, and declare "rain of arrows" to be a stupidly powerful AoE.

But different tables like different things, so this isn't one-size-fits-all advice!

pavel_lishin

> primitives like "plank length" and "quark spin"

I'm going to be that guy - because I love being that guy, and I won't apologize for it - and point out that we're not even sure if those are primitives!

fishtoaster

Haha, yeah, I, I was considering putting some disclaimers around those. "What actually are the true, base-level primitives of physics?" has been an ongoing project for centuries. :)

altruios

> The rules do not say that passed items retain their velocity when passed from creature to creature. The object would have the same velocity on the final "pass" as it did on the first one.

Since this wooden rod travels several miles in a 6 second time frame - traveling more than 500M/s on average - don't we have to assume it accumulates?

Falling damage is the mechanism that makes the most sense to shoehorn in there. Using an improvised weapon on a rod already traveling more than 500M/s seems even more clumsy, as well as calculating the damage more wibbly-wobbly.

There's also the rule of cool. If it makes the story better/ more enjoyable: have at it.

plorkyeran

The problem with this interpretation is that it relies on hyper-literal RAW when it's convenient and physics when it's convenient. If you apply the rules of physics to the wooden rod, then the answer is simple: the peasant railgun cannot make the rod travel several miles in 6 seconds. If you apply D&D RAW, the rod can travel infinitely far, but does not have momentum and doesn't do anything when it reaches its destination. You only get the silly result when you apply RAW to one part of it and ignore it for another part.

pavel_lishin

Yep. And if we apply hyper-literal RAW rules, then gravity also doesn't accelerate items, it simply sets their velocity to some arbitrary degree. None of the falling rules I've seen have ever mentioned acceleration, only fall speed.

(Actually, it looks like it's Sage Advice, technically?)

disillusionist

If we were trying to create a real-time simulation system, then YES you are totally correct. However, many table-top RPGs rules only make sense in the context of adjudicating atomic actions (such as one creature passing an item to another) rather than multi-part or longer running activities. Readied actions are already a bug-a-boo that break down when pushed to extremes. While not listed in the rules, it might make sense for a DM to limit the distance or number of hand-offs that the "rail" can travel in a single round to something "reasonable" based on their own fiat.

altruios

Agreed. Chaining readied actions is the real issue here. Maybe the mechanical fix is - as you say - a limit on that. I would simply say that a readied action can not be in response to a action that has itself been readied.

patmcc

>>Since this wooden rod travels several miles in a 6 second time frame - traveling more than 500M/s on average - don't we have to assume it accumulates?

If we assume it does accumulate, then we also have to assume peasant #2000 couldn't possibly pass it successfully.

moconnor

This; applying the falling object rule makes no sense. But we can compare it to a falling object that has attained the same velocity - this will have fallen (under Earth gravity) 48k feet, or the equivalent of 800d6 damage.

standeven

If you’re using the falling object rule then cap it at an appropriate terminal velocity, maybe 200 km/h.

hooverd

Did you use ChatGPT/an LLM for this comment or do you just write Like That?

bluefirebrand

LLMs had to learn from somewhere, a lot of internet comments write Like That

lukan

But maybe less and less will, if all it gets them nowdays are accusations of using/being an LLM.

hooverd

It's very jarring when you see it nowadays, and rather unfortunate for people who have that style of writing.

disillusionist

I just Write Like That. It always takes me longer to write things than intended because I tend to overthink things, too. :/

zahlman

For what it's worth: having seen that someone else suspected ChatGPT usage, and reading it again, I can understand what sorts of heuristics it might have tripped. But on overall intuition, I didn't get that impression on a first read.

hooverd

It was a good comment!

otikik

It does read very chatgpt-y

max_on_hn

ChatGPT was sticky for me very early because its writing style reminded me of my own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

y-curious

Welcome to the erosion of trust we are seeing live. Soon we won't trust anything outside of a speaker we can touch physically.

pugio

When I was a kid I had a character that could fly. I realized that a Decanter of Endless Water put out a pretty powerful constant thrust. Then a Helmet of Freedom of Movement could be interpreted to remove all excess friction due to win resistance (forget the details but it was something about removing any factor that would inhibit your movement). Constant acceleration and no friction... Unlimited speed.

I actually sat down and worked out all the equations based on the mass of my character and the amount of thrust the decanter provided. Our party would be deep in the wilderness somewhere and I'd say " I nip back to town to pick up some supplies, with acceleration and deacceleration it takes me 17 minutes".

Looking back, I think I was a pretty annoying player, but my DM was very patient. I guess he could see I put a lot of work into the scheme. It was also probably the most exciting application of physics I had encountered in my life so far.

Klathmon

Our group once badgered our DM at the time into allowing the parties pet goat to deal some minimal amount of damage in combat. Then we backtracked and bought a hundred of them from the local shepherd and had a small goat army for a bit.

Unfortunately there was a flood shortly after and our goat army was lost

tonyarkles

My experience with a few fun DMs is that you have to be really careful with the shenanigans. I'm not surprised at all about the flood that took out your goats. I'm impressed with the restraint demonstrated by your DM in fact... one of my old DMs would have almost certainly done something more damaging first; off the top of my head, good chance we would have woken up to discover that the goats had eaten all of our clothing in the middle of the night.

ecshafer

Perfect chance for the army of goats to be corrupted by dark magic and become evil goats that are intent on killing the party.

protocolture

Much prefer Skeletron.

https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2010/12936417...

Has a better RAW foundation (The issue being maximising the number of skeletons)

otikik

This reminds me of the "Dual Octo-cat Flail", invented by a friend of mine.

A flail is basically a stick with a pointy ball chained to one end. It does one attack per turn.

A dual flail attacks twice (it has two balls).

Now replace each ball by an octopus. And each octopi is holding a cat on each of its 8 tentacles. So when you attack, the cephalopods attack, and that means that 16 angry felines attack. I think at the time they came up with this animals had some sort of guaranteed damage exception in some cases (perhaps in a previous DND version?).

Anyway it was completely OP.

xg15

I hope there were some buttered toasts attached to the cats as well, for additional infinite energy.

dexwiz

How do you explain an octopus holding 8 cats, let alone keeping the octopodes alive for more than a day?

Yizahi

Probably there was no need for that, because game evening has ended while everyone was arguing about correct plural name for octopuses :)

sapphicsnail

My ex's goal in life is to get people to say octopodes because that's the proper Greek plural. Hasn't taken off yet

petsfed

Obviously it's octopoxen

Like the inspiring concept, I think part of the joy of DnD is that it's often an invitation to discussions about irrelevant minutae. Provided the rules-lawyering doesn't take up all the oxygen in the room, it's a fun diversion.

pavel_lishin

A wizard did it.

nartho

It'd need to be enchanted with "Create Water".

Loughla

Every single group I have ever played with, when playing with brand new Players, has had someone try to drown enemies with create water inside their lungs.

It generally devolves into an argument about whether or not human lungs count as an open container, but it always happens.

It's a human consciousness constant. It's amazing.

noelwelsh

I think of a spectrum of RPG participants. At one end you have the mini-maxers, who want to squeeze every advantage possible out of the rules, and at the other end you have the story tellers, for whom the rules are a just framework to hang a story on. I've always been at the story teller end and while I appreciate the ingenuity in the peasant railgun I'm not very interested in playing a game where it features. If I'm going for slapstick I'd rather have a setting that explicitly encourages and handles it (e.g. Paranoia). OTOH, navigating different player desires is one of the big challenges of RPGs, and if people at the table really want to play a certain I think it has be allowed to an extent.

spacemadness

Not exactly tabletop, but this is the issue I have with every Pathfinder build I see for Wrath of the Righteous. Everyone dips into these nonsensical combinations to get a better armor rating, etc. So then you get a Paladin that decided to become a witch for part of the campaign for “reasons”. You can roleplay something, sure, but it’s rather forced by the numbers.

pavel_lishin

I've only played a little bit of Pathfinder 2e, but it seems like a game explicitly aimed at min-maxers. There are so many various conditions, so many ways things interact, so many ways to build a character badly that you basically have to be a munchkin to build something playable.

If you're like noelwelsh or me, and prefer to lean into the storytelling and roleplaying, there are significantly better options than Pathfinder.

(And better than D&D of course, but everyone knows how to play D&D. :/)

uv-depression

That's very funny, because I think it's the opposite. There's a ton of interactions, but those (in my view) are to encourage group tactics. Individual characters can definitely be built wrong, but so long as you have at least a +3 in your class's key attribute the difference in power between a vibes-based player and a hyperoptimizer isn't all that large. Feats in Pf2e mainly add versatility instead of power. Lots of first edition players hate it for that reason (first edition seems to be the hyperoptimizer's dream game).

> [If you] prefer to lean into the storytelling and roleplaying, there are significantly better options than Pathfinder.

That's true in the sense that Pathfinder has far less support for the more modern style narrative-first play and most of its rules focus on tactics. I dislike the premise that story and tactics are opposing goals, though; in my view they're two separate goals a game may or may not have. Pathfinder 2e has both, though its story-support is very traditional. If you enjoy in-depth stories with lots of intrigue &c, Pathfinder can totally deliver, and it also features significant amounts of tactical combat. If you're just not into the combat, then there are totally far better games. If you like the modern narrative-first game approach to story, then it's also not the best. But I absolutely like storytelling and roleplaying, and I enjoy Pf2e quite a lot.

Semaphor

It’s because those online guides are only relevant for people playing on unfair, yet those guides never/rarely mention that. Even on core I can do pure RP builds (with TB combat at least), all that minmaxing is only really important for the "I’d rather play a puzzle" difficulty.

foota

I'd argue in some ways it's a triangle, with RAW vs RAI being the third point. Someone can minmax either under RAW/taken to the extreme, or under RAI or they can do silly things under RAI or RAW/home brewed.

ourmandave

That's what session 0 is for.

fizlebit

I actually prefer a game where the rules mostly come from the DM. I think it is better if there is no players handbook. The characters develop along their story arc, e.g. at some point you character acquires new powers, e.g. your character has been spending a lot of time developing new combat moves, they kind of level up and now the DM explains a new mechanic. Your character has become adept at disarming opponents and now gets such and such a bonus to attempt a disarm.

This is a lot to place on the DM, but I like the anarchy of a system like dungeon crawler classic. You expect some of your characters to die, e.g. in one adventure my character in a last ditch effort to save himself drank a potion of unknown origin, that potion turned him into a mithral statue. It was a fitting end to his short but eventful life.

Another character played by a different player managed through a long process involving books and negociations with his patron to construct a demonic sentient flying dog through whom he could cast spells and see.

This kind of exploration I think encourages players to see their characters much more as characters than machines to be min maxed and it is way more fun.

Give the DM total control to decide the dice roles that determine the outcome of the shenanigans. You try to hire an army of peasants you're going to be dealing with appointing sergeants, logistics, mutany, desertion all before you try to line them up to throw a ladder at some dude, which in the end is probably like a 1d20 >= ac for a chance of 1d4 damage, with of course crit tables, where on a critical success the dude might be tangled up in the ladder and fall over or something.

pavel_lishin

A note to my fellow DMs: if your players badger you into allowing this, remember that their enemies - typically BBEGs like Kings, Dukes, Wizards, Liches & the like - are much more likely to have two thousand peasants at their disposal than the party is.

joseda-hg

BBEG: "I have to give this one to you heroes, I thought peasants were a lot less useful than you did apparently, time to make use of those conquered villages I guess"

pavel_lishin

"Looks like I'm going to have to conquer a lot more villages. Say, come to think of it, is there any reason the peasants have to be alive to fire the railgun? I don't have to feed zombies..."

wizzwizz4

And if the players seek out the right artefacts of power (or bribe a level 17 wizard), they may be able to Wish away the loophole, bringing their nigh-indestructible enemy back down to mortal (unmortal?) levels.

RHSeeger

Back when I was in college, we used to play various tabletop RPGs a lot. For one of them (DragonQuest), the rules we had were fairly complex (game rules + house rules) and covered a lot of situations. The general rule of thumb was that, if you came up with something that the rules said was ok, even if a bit ridiculous; you could do it. The caveat being, it would be discussed post-session to see if it should work going forward. But everything flies once.

One night, one of the characters was transformed into a frog and knocked off a roof. He triggered a spell, Shadow Wings, which grants the play large wings made of shadow, allowing them to fly. However, the wings are large enough to lift a human... I imagine on the order of a 15-20' wingspan. The DM made it known that it was not reasonable for a frog to fly using them. Much debate happened because... everything flies once. At the end of the discussion, the frog was _not_ allowed to fly.

The result being a new quote came out of that night.

Everything flies once, except a frog.

rtkwe

The problem comes from trying to mix real world physics with game mechanics only in ways that benefit the players and also applying rules where they don't fit [0]. Only the game mechanics allow you to pass it between the peasants so fast and the game already tells you what happens the last peasant throws it and it's a (likely non-proficient) attack with whatever item they're passing with the same range limitations that javelin or improvised weapon has. The item is only on average moving 1900 mph but it's really just being rapidly handed from person to person so the true velocity is a rapid sawtooth as the person moves it to pass it to the next person, enabled by the power of RAW itself to these feats.

[0] This is just an object being passed between creatures not a falling object so the Falling Object rules are irrelevant.

Yizahi

If anyone enjoys this kind of foolery, I recommend a Harry Potter x DnD crossover fanfiction: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8096183/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-...

Main character is a self-aware munchkin mage transported to the HP world and DnD rules apply to him only.

Unfortunately the story is unfinished on the most interesting point, but the finished amount chapters is more than enough :)

pavel_lishin

I've also read the HPMOR series (it was ... not something I'd recommend), and started one of the ratfics about D&D world - and bounced off of it quickly.

kibwen

In earlier editions, a similar hack was to line up an arbitrarily long line of chickens (or similarly expendable 1 HP creature) and use a combination of cleaving feats to meat-teleport from one end of the line to the other in a single round.

Loughla

My favorite exploit was when a set of players realized the druid could transform into [large animal] and if taken to 0 hp, would revert to their druid form.

They immediately wanted to make a hot air balloon to drop the druid onto groups of monsters in his largest shape.