Learn to love the moat of low status
41 comments
·July 2, 2025AceJohnny2
iamthemonster
Yes - I'm a senior member of my team too (to the extent that I've previously been the team lead of similar teams) and it's so freeing to be able to:
1. Give plenty of credit to the juniors when they do good work, even if they were reliant on support, with no need to take credit myself
2. Give up some time working on my own objectives to coach the juniors, even though there's no cost code to book the time to and nobody asks me to do it
3. Easily say, with zero guilt: "no sorry that can't be done in 2 weeks, that's a 6 week job" or "sure I can do my part of this job but I'm going to need you to commit XYZ other resources if you want it to be a success"
4. Interpret the rules in the way I think is best for the organisation, not trying to please the person with the most pedantic interpretation
5. I can produce convincing explanations of how my work performance is delivering value to the organisation (whereas juniors can sometimes work their arse off and get no recognition for it)
I'm also a middle aged white man which seems to confer a lot of unearned trust, but combined with my professional experience I seriously think I have it easier than the juniors in so many ways, and it's my responsibility to give back a bit.
no_wizard
In my experience this usually doesn’t turn into a career hit, but a career boon. I’ve been doing this since I was a junior, now I’m a staff engineer, and admittedly I am biased toward myself, but my career growth has been robust and among both my current t team and my professional network I feel I command a fair amount of respect and approachability because of this practice, which always pays off in the long run
bravesoul2
There must be much more to it. Staff is a leadership role effectively, right?
matthewdgreen
Never be afraid to ask stupid questions. As someone who spent years doing penetration testing, I can assure you that when stupid questions don’t have an obvious answer, someone isn’t thinking properly.
Also never be afraid to question people who answer quickly. We spend way too much effort training smart people to answer quickly rather than deeply, and there’s almost always a tradeoff between the two.
akoboldfrying
> Never be afraid to ask stupid questions.
Unfortunately that's the kind of black-and-white advice that seldom applies in the real world. Would you want to see your surgeon asking stupid questions? The pilot of the flight you're on?
You wouldn't, because part of your psychological comfort depends on your perception that people like this -- people whose decisions really matter -- actually know what they're doing.
ETA: By "stupid questions", I don't mean "basic but obviously important questions". I mean questions that reveal that you don't know something that other people expect you to know, that signal to them (rightly or wrongly) that they may have overestimated you.
cthor
Surgeons mark where on the body they're operating. This didn't used to be a standard practice.
Asking "Did I mess up my left and right?" or "Is this the right patient?" feels like a stupid question to ask. I'd certainly rather they ask those questions before operating on me! But turns out it's very hard to get them to do that, so we do surgical site marking instead.
nothrabannosir
> By "stupid questions", I don't mean "basic but obviously important questions". I mean questions that reveal that you don't know something that other people expect you to know, that signal to them (rightly or wrongly) that they may have overestimated you.
Ok but you didn’t bring up the phrase “stupid questions” so it’s less about how you define it, and more about a best effort interpretation of how it was originally meant.
pharrington
I absolutely would want someone who's becoming a surgeon or pilot to ask the "stupid questions." This discussion is about growth and change over time as a person.
anal_reactor
I have understood that the vast majority of people are simply not interested in having conversations, their goal is to perform social dance that scores them social points.
atq2119
I would go even further and call it the responsibility of high status to ask such questions.
As a high status person, you have an outsized influence on culture whether you like it or not, and an environment in which this kind of question can be asked ultimately leads to better outcomes.
SoftTalker
One thing that helps with this: getting old. You just stop worrying about what other people think of you. All the drama and gossip and cliquish behavior just gets so boring.
Why do you think old fat guys walk around naked in the locker room at the gym? They've certainly got nothing to show off, but they don't give a shit.
vishnugupta
For me this is it.
Whenever someone does “statusy” things I just know how it feels like having done it before so I just move on and don’t participate in that theater anymore.
FlyingSnake
Sometime around mid-30s I stopped caring about what people think about me and it had a great effect on my mental well being. I reconnected with age old Lindy wisdom and started reading classics that helped me with my midlife crisis. Not giving a fuck surprisingly opens up lots of doors.
Status games and tech-bro style hustle culture only leads to burnout.
aspenmayer
They “let it all hang out” quite literally.
aspenmayer
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/let_it_all_hang_out
> (idiomatic) to relax and be carefree
> Synonym: let one's hair down
nico
Very similar to the concept of the dip, explained in the book The Dip by Seth Godin
I asked Google to briefly summarize the concept:
> The Dip: It's a term Godin uses to describe the unavoidable and challenging period that occurs after the initial excitement of starting a new project, skill, or career, and before achieving success or mastery. This is the time when things get difficult, frustrating, and many people are tempted to quit
> Embracing the Dip: Instead of being discouraged by The Dip, Godin suggests that dips can be opportunities. They serve as a natural filter, separating those with the determination to persevere from those who are not truly committed. By pushing through the Dip, you can emerge stronger and potentially achieve greater rewards
roenxi
It is a pretty good article, but it slightly misunderstands status. Being the first person on the dance floor is closer to a high status move, because it is taking a leardership position and suggesting what the group should do next. People avoid doing that because they want to copy someone of a higher status than themselves, not because they fear low status. The mechanism nature uses to implement that low status behaviour is nervousness which is often described as a fear of "standing out", "looking silly" or similar terms, but those are low status concerns. High status people don't really suffer from looking silly, they define what looking silly is by being what they don't do.
ants_everywhere
I don't know. There's nothing high status about being the only person on the dance floor for 3 songs in a row.
> High status people don't really suffer from looking silly, they define what looking silly is by being what they don't do.
I also don't know about this. Certain high status people are obsessively concerned with whether they look silly. They used to routinely fight to the death over it.
I've been reading the Book of the Courtier this week, and it's clear that even back in the 16th century high status people were very concerned about whether they looked silly, or even whether their dances looked silly.
roenxi
> I've been reading the Book of the Courtier this week, and it's clear that even back in the 16th century high status people were very concerned about whether they looked silly, or even whether their dances looked silly.
In the context of the situation the people worrying probably weren't the highest status person in the room though. In a room full of princes one of them is going to be feeling pressure because they are low status relative to their peers. That is what instincts key off, not absolute numbers of people that a body can't immediately detect.
josephg
> There's nothing high status about being the only person on the dance floor for 3 songs in a row.
Simon Sinek says we admire leaders because they take risks on behalf of the tribe. They'll start dancing first knowing they're risking looking silly if nobody joins them. Its impressive because the risk might not pay off.
Being the only person on the dance floor for 3 songs in a row is an interesting move. I think there is something high status about it - in that you're clearly showing that you aren't insecure about how you're seen. I think its polarising. Either it'll make people think a lot less of you, or more of you. Someone who's generally high status will often gain status by doing things like that. And someone who's low status will lose status over it.
People will either say "What an idiot, didn't he realise how goofy he looked?" or they'll say "Oh did you see what Jeff did to get the dance party started? We would never have gotten out there without him. I could never do that!".
It really depends on context.
DavidPiper
When I think of status the way Keith Johnstone describes it in "Impro", being the first one out on the dancefloor is a completely neutral action.
_How_ you do it, and your own physical reaction to those around you while doing it, will reveal whether you're acting from a place of high or low status.
danaris
That only works if the person is already seen as high status—ie, if the other people at the dance are already primed to look at them going out on the dance floor and say "oh, they're dancing; that means it's time to dance."
If the person going out on the dance floor is an unknown, then going out there is a status risk. If it pays off, they can become seen as high status: a trailblazer, a trendsetter. If it doesn't, they become (at least for the time being) low status: pathetic, cringe.
Having visible confidence and charisma can help make the gamble more likely to pay off, but it's not a guarantee.
roenxi
I mean sure. There is a pretty substantial risk that low-status people will be perceived as low status if they do something where success relies on their status being high. I like to offer advice - low status people probably shouldn't be engaging in status-proving activities if that worries them. They're making a play for higher status; that might not work.
vasilzhigilei
Related: During solo travelling whenever a thought crosses my mind to do something and my instinctual internal response is discomfort, I try to make myself do it - even if I feel awkward inserting myself or going back.
I've had so many awesome conversations with random interesting people every day during my trips thanks to this. I've gone places I'd otherwise not experience, all for the sake of exciting adventure and pushing my own bounds. The confidence that comes from this is significant.
Also, as a former remote software engineer of 3 years, it has been so energizing to socialize with people again. Best upper that there is.
djoldman
There's a LOT here. I feel this applies to a lot of decisions.
For instance, if you want to make a product that requires a database and you like building database stuff, do the database stuff last. Do what is difficult first - fail fast.
The easy or default route will always be well known to someone.
ramblerman
Love the concept but “the moat of low status” is a poor name.
It implies a defensive structure. I.e the advantage I get out of low status.
Op even refers to the concept of moats as used in business, but clumsily hand waves the concept to fit her own.
The cage of low status would be more apt
FlyingSnake
Everything is a remix.
Previous art: “ Willingness to look stupid” by Dan Luu.
https://danluu.com/look-stupid/
Precious discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28942189
neom
I grew up in Scotland in the 90s, the high school I went to was ill equipped to deal with someone as wide as I am on the spectrums. I was put into the "retarded children" programs. I think this resulted in me always "knowing" I was the dumbest person in the room, and eventually as a survival mechanism I learned to, well... not care. All through college, my 20s and 30s, I always felt like the dumbest person in the room, but I didn't really care I just felt super happy to be in the rooms, and so I said whatever I wanted and asked whatever I wanted. Now that I'm older, I realize what a blessing this ended up being because I've always ended up in rooms full of incredibly brilliant people having decent amounts of money thrown my way to be in them.
Low status isn't so bad.
ants_everywhere
Overall I like this framing. But I wanted to comment on this
> In poker, it’s possible to improve via theoretical learning.... But you really can’t become a successful player without playing a lot of hands with and in front of other players, many of whom will be better than you.
This is an interesting example because poker is a game that has existed for many years, and for most of those years everyone learned by doing and was terrible at it.
People who excel at things have typically done more theoretical learning than the average person. Doing is necessary, but it's rarely the main way you learn something.
Either you have a mentor who has already absorbed theory and transmits it to you in digested form, or you have to learn the theory yourself.
But most people get the balance between theory and doing wrong, and most people err on the side of doing because theory is harder and less instantly rewarding.
BrenBarn
I think one aspect of this is that learning from doing often involves more than just doing. It involves paying attention to what you're doing, and what other people are doing, and then reviewing that. This doesn't necessarily have to be "theoretical" learning, but it's deliberate or explicit study as opposed to just hoping to get better by osmosis. It's easy to do something a lot and not learn from it.
jmj
well said
photon_garden
In a similar vein, I’ve found helpful:
There’s a difference between pain and suffering.
This is true for emotions: feelings people often find uncomfortable (sadness, loneliness, fear) don’t have to make you miserable. You can just feel those feelings in your body, pay attention to what they’re asking you to pay attention to, and feel deeply okay about it all.
The same is true for physical sensations. Pain is loud so it’s really good at drawing our attention, but there’s a difference between noticing you’re hurt and getting upset about being hurt.
I flipped my bike a couple months ago and scraped myself up incredibly badly, but there wasn’t a ton of suffering involved.
The massive adrenaline shot left me shaking, I felt overwhelmed and like I wanted to cry, and the pain was very loud. But I laid on the ground for fifteen or twenty minutes and then walked the fifteen minutes back home. I wouldn’t call it fun, but it was totally okay.
(Nick Cammarata has a good Buddhist take on this: suffering is a specific fast, grabby movement you do in your mind called “tanha” and if you pay attention you can learn to do it less.)
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charles_f
I started the piano when I was 32. I'm not particularly good at it, I'll never play anything complex, but I love playing and I do my best. My teacher forced me to play in public at some point, and that was probably one of the best things he did, to get me past the point of caring.
That made me realize: no-one cares. You're the center of your life, and it's very important that you succeed, but the very few people who care about you (and whom you should care about) will have the patience, empathy, and admiration for you to be in that "moat", everyone else won't give a shit. If you fuck up, they'll forget about you in a minute. Try to remember about someone trying to do something you like but badly? You can't.
Whenever I see a public piano I seat at it. Sometimes it's just shit and I'm the only one happy I can press keys. Sometimes I manage to play a piece, and a random couple of people are happy about it.
This is a great article, follow its advice. The definition of low status is only the one you set for yourself. Push the shame and embrace it. No one cares anyways
Tangentially, I've been applying something similar, but actually thinking of it as the privilege of high status.
As a very senior member of my team, which has a lot of new college grads, I've been asking the "dumb" questions, the "irritating" questions, intentionally speaking up what I believe others may be thingking, specifically because I figure I can afford the social (career) hit.