What I learned gathering nootropic ratings (2022)

In myy experience it works even better with a stimulant with a smoother curve than caffeine and optionally a bit more intensive (but still on lighter side) exercise.

Good simple nootropic, but I like the cup of coffee even better with a 200mg capsule of a high quality L-Theanine to give a zen-like calm to the stimulation of the caffeine. Underrated as heck IMHO.

Probably the slight MAO inhibiting effect of coffee.

> I have something to look forward to since waking up

That's... sad! I look forward to every day! I look forward to breathing when I wake up! I hope that changes for you soon.

> They work until they don’t in my anecdotal experience. Any substance it seems the first time is the best. Then, slowly, my brain chemistry adapts, and it becomes less effective.

It’s wild to me that the nootropics community evolved into a hybrid between the recreational drug community and supplement enthusiast communities while forgetting all of the lessons people learned in those communities long ago.

So much of the nootropics discourse is about compounds that have a moderate to high recreational value: The above post is talking about Kratom (an opioid) as if it was a nootropic, which would be unfathomable under the original description of nootropics.

The linked article also includes psilocybin, tianeptine (a compound that started out with some myths about serotonin but was later discovered to be an opioid), and phenibut (an extremely addictive substance, see /r/quittingphenibut )

The latter substance is known for temporarily reducing anxiety and giving a confidence boost, which is a common theme among substances cited as helpful. Something about calling them “nootropics” seems to reset people’s expectations and they forget that all recreational drugs make people feel some combination of euphoria, motivation, confidence boost, anxiety reduction, or stimulation at first, before tolerance takes in. People find themselves not only tolerant to these substances, but in withdrawal when they don’t take them (as mentioned above)

Phenibut is one of the most obvious recreational drugs that got pulled into the “nootropics” label for years. Nootropics Depot got caught importing large numbers of drums of this substance for resale. They deleted a lot of the discussion about their lawsuit on /r/nootropics (did you know they control the subreddit?) and have put forward a very selective version of the story that makes them look like the victims. Meanwhile it was one of the most common debilitating addiction stories coming out of supplement and nootropics communities until word spread that it was highly addictive and the withdrawals were very long.

Whatever meaning the word “nootropic” originally had is long lost. It’s now a blanket term for experimenting with powerful supplements or prescription drugs under a different name. I think that alternative name has left a lot of people blind to the reality of what they’re doing. They also frequently don’t realize that self-reported feelings of drug liking effect are not indicative of the drug’s objective positive effects.

Adderall is a performance enhancing drug, and widly used as such. Its nigh on impossible to compete at the highest level workplaces with doped employees if you are a natural worker.

I'm not even certain it's fair to refer to these things (or modafinil) as nootropics, as nootropics (as defined by the person who coined the phrase) should lack stimulate/sedative properties.

I think this is clearly a joke

Data is well presented but the conclusions are iffy. But hey, maybe Europe can stop limiting its own industry with regulation if they just up that dextroamphetamine dose?

> Without many large random trials

That, historically, does not work well for neurochemistry. Large random trials are good for an average biological response of profitable chemicals, but it seems there are significant differences in neurochemistry, between people, that these don't capture. If you've ever had a prescription for most anything mental related, like ADHD, depression, etc, there's never just one drug, there's a panel that you just kinda go through until one works for your personal neurochemistry, with some having detrimental side effects for some people.

Unsurprisingly, it seems to be the same with many of these nootropics. I've had several very negative reactions to common nootropics at fractional doses, where others have positive experiences at many times the dose. A few resulted in migraines every day I took it, until I stopped, with one quickly resulting in depression and the only suicidal thoughts of my life, which went aways just as fast as I stopped. One hurt my short term memory so much I couldn't repeat a phone number (a very potent racetam like).

Some nootropics are precursors, which are mostly self regulating/supplements, but there are many out there that very actively poke low level neurochemicals, and your personal response will vary, just as is expected in the regulated drug world.

Min/maxing personal neurochemistry won't come from large random trials.

> It doesn't help that I'm on Adderall, but if left to my own devices, would absolutely skip it.

The difference is that you’ve taken it medicinally for years, whereas most nootropics users are early users who are experimenting with high placebo priming.

Stimulant prescriptions have a high churn rate because many people take their first few doses and feel euphoric, then think it’s going to be like that forever. Fast forward a couple years and the fun is long gone so it’s a different story.

Nootropics forums are dominated by posts from people saying “Just took my first dose of $substance and I feel amazing!” which is the least useful measure of how well it will treat someone long term.

I echo that. If you're considering this list, please consider talking to a physician first, yes, even if you're in the US. Self-medicating based on randos on the Internet or a few cherry-picked studies is irresponsible, doubly so when dealing with addictive substances with nobody to oversee the therapy, triply so when in a country with no safety net for people with addiction, or sick people in general.

And before you say I appeal to authority, I understand people don't respect doctors or their country's healthcare system, but I suggest they should acquire formal medical education themselves before starting to put random shit in their body. And no, reading the entire body of blogs by Scott Alexander does not count.

> It would be strange if our brains had "one weird trick" to perform a lot better with no downsides, since if it existed evolution should've found it

It would not be strange at all. We are constantly evolving and so is our environment. This argument is very similar to the "efficient market fallacy", if the market was perfectly efficient there would be no opportunity to create value, but in reality it is highly imperfect.

You need to add that all of this is self-reported/subjective. I've gone under doctor's supervision through L-Theanine+Caffeine, then Modafinil, and finally Ritalin, and to be brutally honest, while I subjectively feel the best when on Ritalin, I am far from certain I would be able to show it in a blind study with an objective problem-solving task.

Also a blind study with these would be hard, as Modafinil has a noticeable effect on heart rate and blood pressure, and general response to stress (at least in my case), and also causes a distinct chemical smell of one's urine.

So regular exercise (lifting, HIIT, and light cardio outdoors) is literally that one weird trick. It's hard to identify any downsides but the upsides are tremendous. It's amazing that people will go out ingesting all sorts of questionable substances just to avoid getting in shape.

I found it quite effective in helping me to grind leetcode when I was job hunting while working full-time but YMMV. Perhaps I would've gotten the same gig, but I tried doing a month without it and found my ability to power through was significantly lower than with amphetamines. Maybe it was because the amphetamine gave me an artificially high amount of dopamine which offset the inherently boring nature of the task.

To add... weightlifting isn't a substance and doesn't fit the definition of a nootropic.

Also, regarding weightlifting... there was no mention about the risk of continuous muscle trauma, scar tissue build-up, nerve damage, and ligament damage.

I think most people use weightlifting to refer to lifting weights in general. If someone said “competitive weightlifting” then I would assume that to mean stuff like clean & jerk.

Yeah noopept is legit. Its effects on learning, recall, and organization of thoughts are significant.

Phenibut will FUCK you up. Ever take a big dose? Its like being piss drunk.

Very fun substance also nasty as fuck and undoubtably bad for your brain. (I got weird neurological "withdrawal" symptoms after like 3 days of taking it)