Ask HN: How to Deal with a Bad Manager?

I'll give this a shot, speaking from experience.

I’ve worked as a consultant with small and large organizations for most of my career, and I’ve seen this exact situation play out more times than I can count.

If I could go back, I’d tell my younger self not to stick around under bad leadership or in an unhealthy environment. It’s rarely worth it. Even if you care deeply about the mission, a toxic manager will slowly drain your motivation and confidence. I stayed in a few of those situations too long, thinking I had to tough it out. I didn’t, and neither do you.

The projects I’m most proud of were with teams I genuinely enjoyed working and growing with. That’s not a coincidence.

Start quietly looking. The right environment can bring out the best in you in ways this one won’t.

I really hope it works out for you.

I've been in this situation as well and there are no realistic options to improve it without leadership recognizing the manager's affect and redressing same.

> Micromanagement, lack of vision, poor communication, poor planning, zero support, full package.

This isn't going to get any better. More likely it will get worse over time as your new manager is under more stress to deliver on promises made, without the requisite planning and/or consultation with their team needed.

> About half the team share similar view. The other half seems like just playing along.

Experience suggests the latter group shares the same view as the former, but have other priorities (family, stock options, retirement, etc.) outweighing sharing them. This is not a judgement nor a bad thing. It just is.

> I still care about the mission and about what I do. Though not as much as before this all happened.

This is an inevitable transition resulting from this scenario. A cheeky phrase for this is "beating the care out of you."

> What would you do in my shoes to make the best of the situation?

Make as few waves as possible; do what you are assigned to do ethically.

Take your time to identify an ideal opportunity in another company.

Say nothing of the job search.

Only move on to another gig if you have an employment agreement in place.

At all costs: preserve your mental energy. Once this is gone you are in trouble. Symptoms include losing your intellectual sharpness, burnout, damage to personal relationships etc. I've seen people be so crushed by a bad work situation that their technical skills eroded to the point that they couldnt escape to another job. Dont let this happen to you.

Practically, plan your exit. Build your network within the org and outside of it. Keep up with those coffee chats and casual zoom meetups. Remain friendly to others in the org. Cultivate a skill or expertise outside of your current role that could be a stepping stone out of the org. Remain ultra professional at all times eg never badmouth the boss (but dont offer false praise either).

If you have the mental energy, you might also try this, but be warned it can be very difficult: try to understand why your manager is how they are. Every villain is the hero in their own story. They believe that they have to act in a certain way. It's possible that they are irredeemable little martinets, but far more likely that they are inexperienced and flailing around, grabbing onto markers of authority to give themselves a sense of control instead of facing their fears. If you want an intellectual project and iff you can disassociate yourself from the impact, you might try figuring it out and using the knowledge to form a relationship grounded in a better sense of reality.

There isn't enough data to make a blanket recommendation, so here are some things to consider. All are generalities and can be ignored if certain specifics override them, so use your judgment.

- If your employer is doing well, it is better to stay longer and get promoted from within. (Based on "Relatively good one" I'll assume this is the case.)

- If your employer reorganizes frequently, is supports the "Stick it out case."

- If your employer encourages people to find their own new jobs within the company, that is usually the best route. (This isn't always the situation. In many companies you need your current boss's blessing) Based on your explanation it seems like this isn't the case.

- If you are learning a lot, add that to the case to stay.

- If your new manager has ethical issues (as opposed to just competence issues) start your search right now. Not 30 minutes from now. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Now.

- Same if you're put on any kind of performance improvement plan (PIP). Don't think "I'm competent, I can work my way out of it". PIPs are paper trails to keep them from getting sued. Consider the duration of the PIP to be your severance.

- As you've figured out, it's rarely a good idea to go over your manager's head unless you have an outstanding relationship with the CEO or similar who would ask you later "Why didn't you come to me first?"

- If you have to leave, find a new job first. Then be professional on the way out, and don't throw your manager under the bus. Just say, "I really enjoyed working for you, a dream opportunity came up." You never know when they'll be asked for a back-door reference check on you.

- Similarly, don't badmouth your boss when you interview. (You don't want to seem like someone easily discontented.) You can say "It's now or never to leave, and I think your company has a much better future. I'd rather invest in my career there."

Good luck navigating this!

If you can transfer to another team internally, do it. Otherwise start looking for another job. I’ve done both to escape bad managers. In my experience there is no way to “fix” a bad manager. The only solution is to leave.

At a Megacorp? You can find a new team at your employer.

Or you can find a new employer.

Or you can try to outlast your manager.

Over 25 years at my Megacorp I’ve outlasted many many useless first levels, and only found the need to change teams once.

I am currently in a situation where my useless first level got promoted and is now my skip, and he has hired TWO equally useless new K levels to replace him. We call them “The Orange Cats” as they collectively share one brain cell and no one is ever sure who possesses it on a given day.

Going over their head can turn into a pretty sticky situation, because your skip might actually do something, and you might still be working for that manager.

Also, this is a tricky job market. I ran into a similar situation years ago, tried to fix it, and ended up just switching companies since it was a smaller outfit and I fell out of love with the project.

I think the safest thing for you to do, is to try and secure a transfer, or if you have to, a new job outside the company. This took me months, it might take some time. So be ready to knuckle down if you gotta.

On your way out, tell your skip what's going on, and how much you like the project and the mission. Maybe, just maybe, they'll fix the management problem and invite you back.

There’s this saying - you don't quit a job, you quit a manager.

Either tough it out until the next reorg and hope for the best, or start working on your resume :(

I am in a mixed spot. My direct manager is good, competent and we get on well.

The CEO is pleasant but incompetent, if he gets involved with a project directly, he'll make it worse not better.

For me, it's a balance, if I'm still reasonably happy going into work, I'll stick with it. When it starts to change that I semi-dread it, it's time to go.

Right now, I'm casually looking for other jobs, not committed to leaving, but seeing what my options are. It's a shame because I like my manager, and I like my colleagues, if only the CEO would just stay out of the day to day stuff.

I still care about the mission and about what I do:

Stop caring. You can contribute even more somewhere else later. Do your job, exactly 8 hours, focus on work-life balance, but leave quietly and professionally.

I had a bad manager at a previous job, although they were just more incompetent than actively trying to micromanage.

I managed to get onto another team by making connections internally. I think showing initiative, interest, and promise to another tech lead or manager in their area could go a long way.

That being said, even after switching teams I eventually left for another job and took a big pay cut for it, but was totally worth it for my sanity.

Depends on the level of bad.

Most of the time managers aren’t bad, they just aren’t partially good. They want you to jump up or down in a particular way.

Whatever, as long as you don’t mess with my money I’ll do what you want. The rare truly shit bosses I’ve had would lie to me about my own pay. In one exceptional case they decided to not pay me until 60 days after I started. This wasn’t communicated until after I worked there for a month.

Another instance I won’t talk about.

Then again, I did quit 2 jobs just because my manager was an idiot. If I find a better job anyway why not. Life is too short to deal with stupid people