Canyon.mid
98 comments
·June 15, 2025Dwedit
Yes, I know it's just a "retro looking computer" to frame a YouTube video but...
I had to look up the Tandy 1000 RSX, because it seemed very wrong to have 16-color VGA graphics coming out of a computer labeled as "Tandy 1000".
Tandy 1000 RSX was the last model from 1991, and it had Super VGA rather than the famous "Tandy graphics" that originated with the IBM PCJr. It did not come with an Adlib or Sound Blaster card, which is what was depicted in the YouTube video. But the computer did have one ISA slot, and an Adlib or Sound Blaster compatible card could have been installed.
It also had a 386 processor rather than the 286 normally found on Tandy 1000 computers, and 1MB of RAM.
vikingerik
VGA on a Tandy 1000 wasn't all that unusual. Most if not all of the earlier Tandy 1000 models that had ISA slots could take a VGA card in them. The hardware worked fine (it's just memory bus accesses under 1mb and I/O port instructions), it just depended on software support to do anything with it. Tandy's magazine PCM often listed and rated add-in VGA cards. I remember reading of a later version of DeskMate that supported VGA resolution.
zkmon
Why did we kill all that beautiful minimalism? Computers had enough gaming, entertainment and productivity back then. But the definition of "enough" kept changing. Like a carrot tied to stick attached to an animal.
brookst
This is more commentary on the nature of personality and taste than of computers.
It’s human nature to think of familiar things from our youth as the height of achievement. That was the time of the best music, the best movies, the best culture, the best sports, the best everything. No matter if you were born in 1950 or 1990.
swat535
To be fair, the quality of software has dramatically dropped, apps now take 10 seconds to load, memory usage is maxed, games crash and people needed to reinstall their OS so frequently that Microsoft literally added a "reset PC" option..
You can argue that software does much more than before, sure I agree but no one asked for so much bloat and features in every day apps. My note taking app doesn't need AI.
pcwalton
Your note taking app doesn't need AI, but it also doesn't need OLE, which represented an equally hot buzzword ("software componentry") of the 90s that Microsoft was trying to shoehorn into everything.
Every generation has its hype cycle; it's nothing new.
pxc
> It’s human nature to think of familiar things from our youth as the height of achievement. That was the time of the best music, the best movies, the best culture, the best sports, the best everything. No matter if you were born in 1950 or 1990.
Is it? I think there's a common tendency to "stop exploring" cultural artifacts very deeply as we age, but not everyone shares this trait. Some people continue to value novelty in those areas well into old age.
For my part, treasured artifacts of my youth don't impede my ability to appreciate new things. And indeed, I think many videogames I loved dearly have aged poorly.
nancyminusone
I don't think nostalgia is the only factor here. If it were, then no young people would be interested in old computers, which I have found not to be the case.
reconnecting
And what if this isn't nostalgia, but rather a feeling in people that correlates with external pressure?
U.S. debt in the 1950s was well below $1T, in the 1990s it was something around $3T, now it's $36T.
macintux
I seriously doubt nostalgia for old computers correlates to perceptions of U.S. debt.
Having said that, I wasn’t the only person deeply upset when Greenspan gave the green light for Bush’s tax cuts. Under Clinton we were on track to wipe out the debt in another 10 years.
gunalx
Objectively music was less massproduced, equal low quality slop in earlier years.
entropie
> Computers had enough gaming
Had they? I gamed in the 90s and I game now. And boy, its not even remotely the same and iam thrilled to see what comes next (hello, gta6)
reconnecting
Simply because games these days are exactly designed to extract dopamine from people, and in the 90s they were mostly driven by pain.
throw10920
Objectively speaking, computers back in the 90's were not capable of organizing the information that a single human being would be interested in, let alone the information of a community or state or country or the world.
I am happy with the potential that we have available today to do things that we couldn't in the past. And it's always possible to improve software on top of more capable hardware and OSes.
zkmon
I think business competition has killed the minimality. Because minimality doesn't sell as a quality. Competitor would throw more power and more features into the market. It is not driven by the need for such power or features. Consumer is forced to move to a bloated product as minimal products are removed or made extinct due to incompatible ecosystem.
reconnecting
Asceticism doesn't generate revenue. That's why striving capital needs a population that consumes more, and fat in technologies is not an exception.
Software in the '90s was mostly driven by altruism, software in '20s starts with an A-round.
grishka
Because high-speed internet became omnipresent. The act of making a software release stopped having a cost associated with it, like having to print CDs and ship them to stores. Software transitioned from meaningful releases, each of which needed to be as bug-free as possible and had to be sold to users as a genuine meaningful upgrade, to this pathetic eternal beta we now have.
Also because everyone seems too scared to practice adversarial interoperability.
Also because SoCs are now a thing which allows unhackable secure boot and other DRM-like functionality that prevents people from modifying their own devices to act in their own interest, or, as is the case with Android devices, allows it but punishes the user for having gained full access to their own device.
echelon
This is a silly question.
It will never be enough until we can manipulate the fabric of space and time directly as gods and create entirely new universes and physics and live forever for an infinity infinities.
The ratio of our infinitesimal, geologically small existence to the whole of the light cone and the observable universe - it is just a glimpse at the fractal of what will be enough to satiate our curiosity and desire.
whoisyc
This.
The same drive for betterment that made our species “kill such beautiful minimalism” was the one that lifted billions out of subsistence farming and 50% infant death rate, and will be the one to escape the destruction of planet earth by sun’s evolution. You cannot have one without the other.
bitlax
I don't think OP is asking whether we should give up looking for advances in astrophysics. OP is asking "why did we add all of these freaking popups and theme tweaks? They're distracting me from using my computer to make advances in astrophysics!"
I'd say try Linux.
null
Disposal8433
You remind me that I didn't have a sound card at the time and I played all my games (mostly LucasArts) with the PC speaker. For me, the MIDI versions are too boring as they lack the "raw electric power" of the speaker that I loved for years.
pixelpoet
I can still perfectly hear the twang of the Monkey Island theme song on PC speaker, and vastly prefer it to generic MIDI renditions.
My, where did the years go...
RajT88
I went through a phase in high school of MIDI arrangements of songs I liked. Including crazy guitar solo music.
Good times.
dr_kiszonka
Well put!
You may enjoy chiptunes. Wikipedia has samples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiptune (see: Contemporary chiptune music)
sotix
What exactly was the difference between PC speakers and MIDI? Why do we no longer need a MIDI device today to play the “correct” sound?
badc0ffee
The PC speaker could only play square waves, and had only one voice.
There is no "correct" sound for a MIDI file as it's just note and tempo data. But many people probably associate them with the OPL2 synthesizer chip on AdLib and early SoundBlaster cards. [1]
Now that we have high fidelity digital sound output on even the cheapest computers/devices, at least 44 kHz, at least two channels, and at least 16 bits per sample, we can emulate (or play a recording of) anything.
[1] Personally I remember this midi file sounding different/better. Maybe because I'm remembering using a Sound Blaster AWE64 while playing these things in Windows?
POSSIBLE_FACT
"The PC speaker could only play square waves, and had only one voice."
I am reminded of Mean Streets and Martian Memorandum, which let the PC speaker output something beyond just bleeps and bloops.
pacifika
MIDI files like this depend of the General MIDI standardized specification for electronic musical instruments.
brudgers
There is no "correct" sound for a MIDI file
In the case of canyon.mid there is because it was composed for a specific midi instrument with a particular set of timbres.
Or to put it another way, it’s music and therefore complicated.
brudgers
Speakers (and rooms) have their own unique acoustical properties (e.g. distortion, frequency response, etc.). Also it matters where your ears are.
Finally, “high fidelity” is not a synonym for “musical.”
vunderba
As others have already said, MIDI is a spec and does not contain any actual sounds. General Midi's big thing was probably its defined list of sounds but that was really only a naming convention.
The great thing about MIDI is that it is easily routable to any number of things (physical instruments, samplers, etc.).
Being able to listen to Sonic 2 - Chemical Zone with a combination of a Minimoog Model D and a Jun-6 (basically a Juno-6) is unbelievably fun.
p1mrx
I'm slightly impressed that the video (3.4 MB) is only 100 times larger than the original MIDI (33 kB)
brudgers
If you want Midi to render consistently across devices, you are “Significantly Out of Luck.”
The audio sounds like it sounds because Microsoft Licensed Roland’s GS Wavetable. Without that you lose timbral information.
Kwpolska
That’s not the Microsoft/Roland sound.
nancyminusone
Yeah, this sounds like an OPL2 to me
brudgers
Canyon.mid on my windows computer is.
rtkwe
That's probably mostly audio too given the vido is a 95% static screen. That has to encode to basically nothing.
theletterf
The creator of Canyon.mid, George Stone, was interviewed here: https://pixelatedaudio.com/canyon-mid/
fishgoesblub
Please please please NEVER disable video player controls. Like a fool I didn't lower my system volume, and got blasted with maximum volume of the YouTube video.
pixelpoet
If your YT/Winamp/whatever volume isn't at 100%, then what you're doing is:
1. generate audio signal
2. reduce volume of that signal, losing information because it's quantised
3. take that volume-reduced signal and boost it right back up again, but now with the lower bits destroyed
You can make this effect as bad as you like, e.g. turn it down to 1% and then amplify by 100x... but why?
alterom
Because the quality drop is imperceptible for most people, but the convenience of having volume controls at the component that makes sound isn't.
skrebbel
I don't think this is true in practice anymore. Given that most sources are 16 bit wide, and afaik most OSes internally use 24 bits these days in the OS mixer (at least my laptop does), the information loss is negligible (just some rounding errors and that's it).
I'd be much more worried about 44.1khz sources being resampled to 48khz if that's the OS playback rate. I mean you won't be able to hear that either in practice but at least it's not negligible.
xanderlewis
I just like to have my audio samples divisible by a (preferably large) power of two — what's wrong with that? Sounds more crispy that way.
api
Apps shouldn’t even have local volume controls. It’s an OS function.
Brian_K_White
I do not want to have to go hunt down the app in a list of all currently running apps in some os-level mixer to turn down or up one app. It is absolutely both an os and an app function. Both are needed.
crazygringo
Yes and no.
Clearly there is a need to give different volumes to different apps, so you can have quiet background music while a timer app is louder, or Zoom is louder.
Ideally there would be an OS-level mixer to independently set the volume of each app. I believe Windows has this, Mac definitely doesn't. And for convenience, an app's local volume control would exist, but set it at the OS mixer level, so you don't have them competing with each other.
But without this, an app does have to have local volume controls.
Also, it's important to be able to set gain as well, i.e. turn the volume "above 100%". For those YouTube videos that for some reason are only 5% as loud as other videos. Even better is if you can set the gain per-video so that it won't be absurdly loud and clipping when you move on to the next video.
Bonus points if an OS or media player ever gives the option of a dynamic compressor, so you can actually listen to those amateur podcasts where one speaker's microphone is 10x quieter than another's. Or listen to the quiet parts of classical music recordings even in the presence of background noise.
weiliddat
Well sometimes you want Spotify running at a lower volume than your 100 people Teams meeting, or maybe the other way around ;)
alterom
Yeah, because clicking out of the app to adjust its volume is fun!
Clicks for the click God!
murdockq
Not affiliated at all but just came across and I wish this was built in to windows: https://github.com/File-New-Project/EarTrumpet
Brian_K_White
It pauses when I click on it. Firefox on linux.
There are no controls to indicate that you can pause and restart, but this just-click-anywhere-to-play/pause has been standard on all video players everywhere for a long time.
kelvie
Could media player actually just play midi dumps like this back in the day?
I've been on Linux for so long now, that being able to just play a MIDI file without making a bunch of decisions about soundfonts and synthesizers [1] just seems mind-blowing to me now.
Part of me wishes that just by default, mpv or something would just pick a softsynth and just play it (like WMP here) rather than have me install a separate program, pick a sound font, invoke it in some weird way to let it know what soundfont I want, and not even be able to seek back and forth.
[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/MIDI#List_of_SoundFonts
dleslie
Yes, and sharing midi files was commonplace before mp3s took over. Mid and mod, what an era.
tripflag
mods are still alive, and crazier than ever -- proof that 4 channels is all you need! https://www.stef.be/bassoontracker/?file=ma-205456
tgv
If you like that kind of thing: manufacturers used to create demo songs for synth keyboards and modules:
* Emu Proteus 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5FffG_0sqw
* Emu Proteus 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4KW9uWCY3A
* Roland MT-32: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdSKg5G9MPc&t=22s
* Roland D-10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGdyp7Ml-Y
* Roland SC-33: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as_jVNIvleI (complete with MIDI animation)
* Yamaha MU100: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BL_RzeWDxg (1 hour!)
Etc. Don't know if they still do, but it was a thing when these "romplers" came on the market.
burnt-resistor
Note: It sounded differently on different sound cards because their wavetable/sound fonts/MIDI chips were different, so there was no canonical, universal rendering of MID files.
llimos
Heard it in my head as soon as I saw the title on HN
I can hear that Model M just be looking at it. The break on the buckling springs is still one of the best you can get.