Walkers' Sensations Poppadoms vs. HMRC: The Chip of Theseus
34 comments
·May 26, 2025cjs_ac
intuitionist
The FT is well worth reading (regardless of anyone’s personal beliefs, it’s useful to get a sense of how the wealthy and powerful think by reading their papers) but note that the FT Alphaville blog, which published this piece, is free to read if you create an account (you don’t need to pay).
varispeed
FT occasionally publishes entertaining pieces, but make no mistake - their editorial line inherently favours the ultra wealthy and government perspectives. A classic example is their coverage of IR35, crafted to shield big consultancies from competition, not the taxpayer. They parrot government propaganda, as if their critical thinking faculties mysteriously switch off whenever they touch the topic. They favour policies and narratives that sustain the power of large players, often at the expense of small businesses, freelancers, or challengers. Don't feed the beast.
twic
> IR35, crafted to shield big consultancies from competition, not the taxpayer
I think this is a crank belief, and my guess is that you are an aggrieved ex-contractor. But i would definitely be interested to hear more about this theory.
varispeed
IR35 only applies if the worker owns the business delivering the work. Big consultancies are completely exempt — even when their staff do the same job, in the same client seat, for years. The legislation funnels work away from independents toward large firms - it’s a structural outcome of how the rules are written, all under the false banner of tax fairness. At its core, IR35 was about consolidating control over skilled labour, locking clients into corporate pipelines, and eliminating independent operators who could undercut on price and offer better quality.
cjs_ac
As much as I agree with many of the biases of the Grauniad, I feel increasingly irritated by the blatant pandering to my sensibilities. The 'what happened' part of the article is so short on details it's barely there and the 'analysis' part is almost always just telling me who are the goodies and who are the baddies. If they quote experts, it's always an explanation of the most basic shit, because that's all the journalist understood. All of the non-elite media is like this: the analytics seem to have told them that ragebait is the only thing that gets ad revenue.
I just want to know what's going on in the world, and interesting analysis. I don't want analysis that tells me that I'm a good person, I want analysis that tells me something interesting about the world, even if I don't agree with it. If I have to pay a Bond villain to get that, so be it.
varispeed
I get it - FT feels like the antidote to shallow ragebait because it's polished, detailed, and authoritative. But in my opinion, papers like the FT, exist less to inform you fully and more to shape your perception - a polished form of narrative management for the benefit of the said elites, not you. The elites themselves, though, aren't relying on newspaper analysis. They have access to internal briefings, specialised research, paid private reports, strategic intelligence, and direct advisor networks - insights and data that never make it into public media channels.
jarym
So, so, true. Even more irksome when the country is faced with massive economic challenges and the politicians make choices that they seek to avoid justifying and do not appear to be in the national interest.
argsnd
They cater to their readers
erikerikson
Do you have a recommendation of where one should read?
sph
Reminds me of McVitie's challenge to get the Jaffa Cake on the zero VAT tariff for cakes, even if technically it's a biscuit (that carries a higher VAT rate).
McVitie's won with the astute argument that, unlike other biscuits, when a Jaffa Cake goes stale it becomes hard like a cake, not soft.
masfuerte
In the first tribunal Walkers argued that Sensations are not crisps because:
> They are not ready for human consumption
I understand why they made the argument but I couldn't understand how. I tracked down the judgement from last year:
> Walkers initially argued that the products were designed to be used with dips, chutneys and pickles, and as a side with a meal. On this basis, they contended that the products required further preparation before consumption and so did not fall within Note 5.
> In the hearing, Walkers accepted that there was nothing on the consumer packaging that stated that any preparation was required. It was agreed that the packaging would be required to state any such necessary preparation. We also noted that Walkers’ own promotional material showed people eating the product directly from the package, without any dips etc, and without a meal. On that basis, and in the light of case law on ‘preparation’ in this context, Walkers agreed that they were no longer relying on this argument.
fanf2
There’s a similar thing with chocolate: cooking chocolate is zero-rated, but VAT is due on eating chocolate. They are basically the same products: the main differences are the packaging (presence or absence of cooking instructions) and where they are shelved (with the cake ingredients or with the sweets).
TheOtherHobbes
I have no comment on the legalities, but I have to insist that the lime and coriander variety are amazing.
comrade1234
I wonder why the UK has a 20% tariff on potato chips, er I mean crisps. Is it to stop from being overrun by clearly superior Irish crisps (O'Donnells Ballymaloe Relish and Cheddar in particular)?
StevenWaterman
Are you getting confused between tariffs and VAT? VAT is the equivalent of sales tax.
From what I can tell, the tariff on "Potatoes, Thin slices, fried or baked, whether or not salted or flavoured, in airtight packings, suitable for immediate consumption" from Ireland is 14%, reduced to 0% if they originate in Ireland https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/20052020...
fredoralive
It's Value Added Tax, which is basically a sales tax[1], not a tariff (unless you're a certain president who thinks it is?).
The idea is that VAT was supposed to apply to everything equally (AFAIK in most EU countries it does?), but applying it to some things like food, children’s clothes or books was seen as kinda a bad idea when they brought it in for the UK in the 1970s, so they don't have it (technically the do, but at a 0% rate which is a technicality only accountants care about). But with food they didn't want to apply to frivolous luxuries. Which in some cases is fairly obvious (alcohol has VAT), and snacks like crisps are also bourgeois luxuries, so get the full 20% (oh, for the days of 17.5%...). This split does lead to some interesting tax tribunal decisions, so a chocolate covered biscuit does have VAT, but a cake with a chocolate topping doesn't, leading to the famous Jaffa Cake case, or this case about rather crisp like Poppadoms made by a crisp company.
[1] Except a lot more confusing.
petesergeant
> by clearly superior Irish crisps
Here is a map of where they're available in the UK[0]. I think you under-estimate the cut-throat nature and absolute consumer abundance of good crisps in the wider British Isles...
varispeed
Map seems to be showing distribution centres, not actual stores - at least for Tesco.
comrade1234
I always thought poppadoms were made from fermented lentil dough, so I looked it up and they're made with basically anything - even potato!
arprocter
My assumption was chickpeas, but evidently anything starchy works
kjellsbells
A papad-like thing can be made from potato flour, but I struggle to equate it to a poppadom since potatoes are not native to the subcontinent. The classic papad is made from urad lentil flour. They are infamously tricky to make from scratch. Anecdotally, all the Indians whose houses I've been to use the brand that has the little boy photo on the sleeve and Lijjat papad brand in Hindi script in big letters across the front.
fredoralive
I suspect the potato choice from Walkers is just because they're a crisp / snack company so it keeps their ingredient pipeline simple.
I probably wouldn't really count these are "real" poppadoms, they're poppadom inspired mostly potato based snacks[1], sold in the crisps isle.
[1] https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/264339339 for an example of the product at a shop.
ChrisMarshallNY
How can they talk about Walker's Poppadom Chips, without mentioning Poppadom Elvis[0]?
Once you've seen it, it's hard to get out of your head.
AndrewStephens
Damn you, that’s going be stuck in my head all day.
normie3000
This article implies that Discos are not crisps. Surely this is madness?
petesergeant
> I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["potato crisps"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the [delicious snack] involved in this case is [quite definitely] that
laidoffamazon
> I care not when you call me big poppadom
Huge credit to whoever came up with this subtitle
dp-hackernews
Quite an amusing account.
> The Upper Tribunal — having already determined potato granules to be part of the extended potato universe — didn’t like this line of argument, judging that the potato starch and granules must be combined to judge overall potatitude.
Okay, I'm sold. When I have the money, I'll get a subscription to the FT.
On a less jocular note, this article is a good reminder that, contrary to most discussion here on HN, laws aren't algorithms that the powers that be execute against the world, but are rather heuristics that courts have to interpret in the context of specific cases.