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Why does Switzerland have so many bunkers?

sschueller

I recently found out there in a command bunker (K85) smack in the middle of Stadelhofen, Zürich. It was only declassified in 2009. The primary access is via the tunnel. The 30m shaft was originally used while constructing the tunnel but was never filled in and turned into the bunker. It went into operation in 1989 and closed in 2009 but is still used as an emergency tunnel exist in case of a fire etc.

[1] https://www.tiktok.com/@mikealpharomeotangoindia/video/74960... (in Swiss German)

LooerCell

If you want to read more about the topic and about the readiness of the Swiss army, I can recommend a short book by John McPhee called La Place de la Concorde Suisse

fasouto

This is a bit random, but when I was an intern at CERN I spent a summer living in an old civil defense bunker near Geneva.

Short-term accommodation was notoriously expensive for students back then (probably even worse now), and I didn't hesitate when they offered me this unconventional housing opportunity.

The bunker had a decontamination zone, air filtering system, massive concrete doors, a large communal kitchen, and numerous small bunk beds. It was adequate for short-term use, but we encountered two main issues:

- It's remarkably easy to lose track of time without natural light cues

- Even with the air filering system wet clothes wouldn't dry properly inside

baxtr

Excuse my lack of experience in that matter, but with modern inventions like the watch shouldn’t keeping track of time be something that is possible?

pjmlp

It was already a pain in 2003 and the whole process looks like hunting for a job with interview process and everything.

For us it was a schock, versus the usual "you can pay it is yours", first come first served that we had back in Portugal.

However while not living in a bunker, we did have parties in some somehow converted into clubs.

bschne

I'm in civil protection service in Switzerland and occasionally spend a few days at a time in one of these doing basically office work or running refresher courses etc., definitely agree on the losing track of time thing --- can't count the number of times I've come up at 4--5pm and been extremely surprised by how light or dark, sunny or rainy it was

intellectronica

And why does it have so many bankers?

ithkuil

Swiss bankers live within a levenshtein distance of 1 from a bunker

iamflimflam1

Underrated comment.

NaOH

Related:

Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25331474 - Dec 2020 (119 comments)

The forgotten underground world of Swiss bunkers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12430234 - Sept 2016 (50 comments)

jeffrallen

Germany, Austria, Italy and France: With friends like these who needs enemies? :)

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aredox

And yet it is the Swiss who waged wars in all these countries - as mercenaries.

The last two wars between the Swiss and their neighbours were in 1531 and during Napoleon - who in the end admired the Swiss confederacy and helped rebirth it in its modern form.

lazide

Being the source of mercenaries is literally the opposite of waging war as the country.

That they weren’t waging war does result in excess men who someone else can pay to wage war for them though.

KingOfCoders

Founded in the idea to make it too expensive for Nazi Germany to invade.

But in the end it was more successful to just trade with Nazi Germany, buy stolen Jewish gold and stolen gold from occupied countries, send back Jews to be killed, deliver raw material for arms and sell weapons to the Nazis to not be invaded.

[Edit] Sorry, thought this was well known.

* NYT / "The (Not So) Neutrals of World War II"

> https://archive.is/kogL7#selection-275.0-275.37

* "For reasons that are still uncertain, Hitler never ordered the invasion. One theory is that a neutral Switzerland would have been useful to hide Nazi gold and to serve as a refuge for war criminals in case of defeat"

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum

* "In 1998, a Swiss commission estimated that the Swiss National Bank held $440 million (equivalent to $8.5 billion in 2024) of Nazi gold, over half of which is believed to have been looted."

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gold

* "Switzerland laundered hundreds of millions of dollars in stolen assets, including gold taken from the central banks of German-occupied Europe"

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Na...

* "The Boat Is Full"

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boat_Is_Full

* "Seven studies released on Friday by the Independent Commission of Experts (ICE) show that the lion’s share of Swiss munitions exports went to the Axis powers."

> https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/banking-fintech/swiss-supplied-...

* "The studies found evidence that the Swiss authorities only superficially inspected goods traffic transiting through Switzerland allowing the Nazis to transfer essential products, possibly even war material, from Germany to Italy and north Africa."

> https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/banking-fintech/wartime-probe-r...

somedude895

> Switzerland’s policy to provide shelter to every single resident in the event of a crisis was first enshrined into law in 1963.

Your rant has nothing to do with the article.

KingOfCoders

From the article,

"That DNA is inherited directly from World War II, when bunkers were already an established part of Swiss military strategy. In the early ‘40s, when neutral Switzerland was entirely surrounded by Axis powers, the army famously stocked the Swiss Réduit (“National Redoubt”), a series of military fortifications in the central Alps dating to the 1880s, with supplies and ammunition to prepare for a potential Nazi invasion."

From my post,

"Founded in the idea to make it too expensive for Nazi Germany to invade."

vincnetas

So basically Dwarves who were digging for mithril and other minerals and awakened Balrog. Im curious is there a map that maps Europe on to Middle-earth and what would the Baltic states be :)

jeffrallen

This is the definitive history, as researched by an independent commission in Switzerland:

https://www.uek.ch/en/index.htm

Making accusations and finding biased sources is easy. Living with a bully next door is not.

abc05xx

The problem with ChatGPT is: People who have only limited amount of knowledge should not use it. Bunkers were built in phases and many during the cold war. Bunkers in houses started in the sixties. So your statement is not true. Because Switzerland was not prepared, they had to resort to other means.

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panick21_

I'm not sure what you mean by 'in the end it was more successful'

All these polices operate together its not like the first did one, then the other. Depending on the situation the adjusted policy many times. And they also had many polices that you didn't mention, like an active air war and air defense against Germany (and the allies at time). I don't know what you are basing the claim on that one was more successful then the others.

Also, why are you using a fictional movie as source for anything? I do not think people were actually kicked out, only denied entry. At least I have not read about that, anybody can provide a source for that?

Here some information about the denial of asylum:

"According to the Bergier Commission final report, during the Second World War, Switzerland granted asylum to 25,000 Jews while denying around 20,000 refugees (of which a significant portion were estimated to be Jewish) admission to the country in total.[42] However, Serge Klarsfeld, the French-Jewish historian, activist and Nazi Hunter stated in 2013 that the Swiss authorities rejected fewer WWII Jewish refugees than believed. Based on his own research, Klarsfeld claimed that the number of entry denials was closer to 3000."

> The report on arms revealed that from 1940 to 1944, 84 per cent of Swiss munitions’ exports went to Axis countries.

Of course more trade goes to Axis in this period, as Switzerland was surrounded by the Axis on literally all side.

And Switzerland was in desperate need for food and coal. It would have been literally insane not to sell things like munitions to Germany in that situation.

Physkal

With such large accusations I was honestly expecting sources.

4ggr0

I get that you want sources, but this is a veeeeery known fact, at least for europeans, I guess. That's one of the first things which gets mentioned about Switzerland if you ask others to describe it.

It's like asking for sources when someone talks about the US having been to war with [INSERT RANDOM COUNTRY].

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atoav

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz_im_Zweiten_Weltkrieg In German.

As someone from the region: I also have read this a few times in different sources over my life, with no controversy about it at all. This is pretty much how it is written in the history books and it also makes sense.

Physkal

Thank you for the link. I'm learning.

FirmwareBurner

Can you use Google or LLM chatbots? Because it's all public information everyone can find.

aredox

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Mayora13

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willy_k

I’m as much a fan of thoughtless AI forwarding as the next HNer, but this seems like a fair situation for it:

https://chatgpt.com/share/68199e8e-5ad4-8012-8026-09fa353b60...

behringer

Chat gpt is known to make up citations and quotes. You shouldn't reference it unless you've checked every one for accuracy.

aaron695

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